The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes | November 17, 2023 | Prequel about President Snow | Francis Lawrence to direct | Given a SAG interim agreement

[Blue35]

55 minutes ago, John Marston said:

 

“dark”. Oh so they’re mad it’s not full of quips and Marvel humor 

I did notice a number of the negative reviews were from comic book movie- focused sites, from people who liked the marvels. Some of the reviews thought I saw thought the movie was too serious.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Blue35

[Arlborn]

1 hour ago, Litio said:

The film is great. Great performances, smart script without being too didactic and wonderful production design.
Could shorten some songs in the film, some are unnecessarily long.

The script has some flaws, but nothing that compromises the overall picture. 

 

Honestly, I'm shocked to see the negative reviews.
Now that "critics" are no longer getting paid to give positive reviews, many of them are lazier when it comes to reviewing a film. Many negative reviews I saw are complaining about the film being "too dark". WTF?

 

Anyway... for me it's the second best film in the franchise, behind Catching Fire.

 

PS: I haven't read the book and you don't need it to understand the film, just pay attention to what's going on and don't go to the toilet during the movie.

I’m glad you liked it.

 

I’ve read some reviews lately for this and other recent blockbusters that also gave me this vibe of being a bit lazy. Stuff like complaining about not being able to follow something that was pretty clear in the movie or saying something wasn’t explained at all in a sequel when that was a key plot point of the movie before that.

Maybe it’s just a symptom of how the GA is facing blockbusters these days, and that’s fair enough, but I kind of expect a bit better from critics I guess, at least when it comes to following the plot itself or remembering the movie that came before it.

[Noctis]

WoM is going to be good.

[Litio]

9 hours ago, Arlborn said:

I’m glad you liked it.

 

I’ve read some reviews lately for this and other recent blockbusters that also gave me this vibe of being a bit lazy. Stuff like complaining about not being able to follow something that was pretty clear in the movie or saying something wasn’t explained at all in a sequel when that was a key plot point of the movie before that.

Maybe it’s just a symptom of how the GA is facing blockbusters these days, and that’s fair enough, but I kind of expect a bit better from critics I guess, at least when it comes to following the plot itself or remembering the movie that came before it.

Exactly!
Damn! They literally make money off these reviews. The MINIMUM they should do is goes deeper into the work and the works that precede it. 

 

I have noticed that the level of reviews has collapsed after the rotten tomatoes scandal broke:
Rotten Tomatoes scores “manipulated” by firm paying critics for reviews

 

But apparently this has been happening long before:
This became easier to do in 2018 when the site loosened restrictions on who could join this pool, allowing more freelance, self-published critics as well as YouTubers and podcasters to contribute. Vulture states that Bunker 15 used this to its advantage, with several critics telling the outlet that the PR firm pays them $50 or more per positive review – despite Rotten Tomatoes’ ban on “reviewing based on a financial incentive.”

 

In other words, anyone without knowledge or respect can post a review there.

 

Anyways, I hope you enjoy the film as much as I did!

[titanic2187]

I saw the movie and thought this is wonderful. Feel like it is a what if mockingjay is a single movie kind of situation. 
 

I am actually surprised critics didn’t eat it up that well, probably this is what lionsgate  thought too and go ahead lifting embargo this early. For sure GA will love it more 

[WittyUsername]

Not that people should put too much stock in Rotten Tomatoes, but the score is currently back at “fresh,” so there’s that. 

[Capricious]

On 10/29/2023 at 9:01 AM, Arlborn said:

Yup. They started from this point and then simply tried to find stuff that could “justify” their hatred in their minds so they don’t sound too bigoted.

 

But their whole thing 100% started with “Snow White should be white, why is Hollywood so woke?!”

 

 

White actresses have also had to face ethnic controversies over their casting:

 

• Scarlett Johansson got grief for playing Major Kusanagi in Ghost in the Shell (and for planning to take a trans role, causing her to drop out of that project)
• Emma Stone got grief for playing a part-Asian woman in Aloha
• Tilda Swinton got grief for playing the Ancient One, a Tibetan man in the comics, in Dr. Strange

 

Now, ScarJo was not portraying the Major's original Japanese body, but an android shell. And some mixed-race people can favor one race so completely that they look like Emma Stone (such as Chloe Bennett). So their casting was defensible. But rather than attacking their critics, these actresses were careful to say that they respected them and their concerns, and they remain popular.

 

Obviously, there are any number of popular Hispanic celebrities. Nor do latina actresses automatically become hated by taking "white" roles:

 

• Jessica Alba does not particularly resemble Sue Storm, but she did not become hated for doing Fantastic Four films.
• Some thought Ana de Armas was being miscast as Marilyn Monroe in Blonde, particularly since her English still has traces of her Cuban accent. But she did not denounce those concerns as bigoted (or make remarks disparaging Monroe's films as "extremely dated"), and she remains a very popular actress.
• And Rachel Zegler would have fit this pattern. While there was criticism of casting a Hispanic to play a "snow white" character, the brunt of that was directed at Disney and "Hollywood" in general, rather than Zegler personally. And truthfully, while she may not be snow-pale, the half-latina Zegler is light enough that the great majority of people would have accepted her without a fuss. Just as Omar Sharif was light enough to be accepted as the Slavic Dr. Zhivago, or Ricardo Montalban, the Sheen/Estevez men, and Oscar Isaac are accepted in "white" roles. This was not a jarring change like the Ariel switch.

 

What really got her into hot water was opening her mouth. Those remarks would have rankled many fans, regardless of who had been cast or what her ethnicity was. However, in combination with a casting "issue" that most would have shrugged off on its own, and the dwarf controversy, they indicated that the people behind this project have contempt for the material they are "remaking." Worse for her, they marked her as an enthusiastic supporter of unfaithful deviations, rather than simply an actor reading off Disney's scripts.

 

To repair the damage, Zegler and her team should look at what has worked for others. As an example on the guy side, not everyone thought Idris Elba was the right fit for the Norse god Heimdall, or Roland the Gunslinger. But he chose not to rage that he was a victim of racist attacks, and he remains a respected and liked actor. Similar restraint has served well in other casting commotions: Samuel L. Jackson as a black Nick Fury, Hugh Jackman as a tall Wolverine, Tom Cruise as a short Jack Reacher.

 

Contrition and humility is the best policy, not a polarizing campaign denouncing her critics as racists and misogynists. And those who truly want what is best for her (rather than congratulating themselves on how right-thinking they are), would be best advised not to wage such a campaign on her behalf.

[Arlborn]

17 minutes ago, Capricious said:

 

White actresses have also had to face ethnic controversies over their casting:

 

• Scarlett Johansson got grief for playing Major Kusanagi in Ghost in the Shell (and for planning to take a trans role, causing her to drop out of that project)
• Emma Stone got grief for playing a part-Asian woman in Aloha
• Tilda Swinton got grief for playing the Ancient One, a Tibetan man in the comics, in Dr. Strange

 

Now, ScarJo was not portraying the Major's original Japanese body, but an android shell. And some mixed-race people can favor one race so completely that they look like Emma Stone (such as Chloe Bennett). So their casting was defensible. But rather than attacking their critics, these actresses were careful to say that they respected them and their concerns, and they remain popular.

 

Obviously, there are any number of popular Hispanic celebrities. Nor do latina actresses automatically become hated by taking "white" roles:

 

• Jessica Alba does not particularly resemble Sue Storm, but she did not become hated for doing Fantastic Four films.
• Some thought Ana de Armas was being miscast as Marilyn Monroe in Blonde, particularly since her English still has traces of her Cuban accent. But she did not denounce those concerns as bigoted (or make remarks disparaging Monroe's films as "extremely dated"), and she remains a very popular actress.
• And Rachel Zegler would have fit this pattern. While there was criticism of casting a Hispanic to play a "snow white" character, the brunt of that was directed at Disney and "Hollywood" in general, rather than Zegler personally. And truthfully, while she may not be snow-pale, the half-latina Zegler is light enough that the great majority of people would have accepted her without a fuss. Just as Omar Sharif was light enough to be accepted as the Slavic Dr. Zhivago, or Ricardo Montalban, the Sheen/Estevez men, and Oscar Isaac are accepted in "white" roles. This was not a jarring change like the Ariel switch.

 

What really got her into hot water was opening her mouth. Those remarks would have rankled many fans, regardless of who had been cast or what her ethnicity was. However, in combination with a casting "issue" that most would have shrugged off on its own, and the dwarf controversy, they indicated that the people behind this project have contempt for the material they are "remaking." Worse for her, they marked her as an enthusiastic supporter of unfaithful deviations, rather than simply an actor reading off Disney's scripts.

 

To repair the damage, Zegler and her team should look at what has worked for others. As an example on the guy side, not everyone thought Idris Elba was the right fit for the Norse god Heimdall, or Roland the Gunslinger. But he chose not to rage that he was a victim of racist attacks, and he remains a respected and liked actor. Similar restraint has served well in other casting commotions: Samuel L. Jackson as a black Nick Fury, Hugh Jackman as a tall Wolverine, Tom Cruise as a short Jack Reacher.

 

Contrition and humility is the best policy, not a polarizing campaign denouncing her critics as racists and misogynists. And those who truly want what is best for her (rather than congratulating themselves on how right-thinking they are), would be best advised not to wage such a campaign on her behalf.

That’s a lot of words to just go back to what I said before:

 

Quote

They started from this point and then simply tried to find stuff that could “justify” their hatred in their minds so they don’t sound too bigoted.

 

 

[Youngstar]

Just saw the movie:

As a huge fan of the book, I was missing a few scenes I really liked and Snows inner monologue is missed, but overall a fantastic movie. Rachel Zegler  and Tom Blyth killed it in their roles. (Everyone else as well)

[nox]

As a fan of the Hunger Games films/books who hasn't read the book for this one, I enjoyed this film quite a lot, more than I anticipated. I think it was as good as the original Hunger Games films. Hopefully, it does well at the box office, because it was obvious the creators put a lot of care into the film: acting, set design, cinematography, special effects, soundtrack, everything about it was very good.

 

P.S. The trailers don't do Viola Davis justice: her performance was amazing.

[Morieris]

30 minutes ago, Youngstar said:

Just saw the movie:

As a huge fan of the book, I was missing a few scenes I really liked and Snows inner monologue is missed, but overall a fantastic movie. Rachel Zegler  and Tom Blyth killed it in their roles. (Everyone else as well)

 

Spoiler

I hope they still have Snow and Sejanus sneaking into the area at night.

 

[Youngstar]

1 minute ago, Morieris said:

 

  Hide contents

I hope they still have Snow and Sejanus sneaking into the area at night.

 

 

Spoiler

they do. It's just a lot more compact before and after that scene. I totally get why they cut most of the scenes, but I still would have loved to see them.

 

 

[Wormow]

There's a really (minor spoiler about an easter egg in movie, not plot specific)

Spoiler

poetic nod to Katniss in this movie and fans of the OG series will recognise they also play Katniss' theme

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by Wormow

[dudalb]

OK the fans of the franchise love it, let's see what the GA and casual fans do.

 

[Noctis]

Seeing this in a few hours! 

[Youngstar]

I'm very confused by RT audience score. Why is it not appearing? There are like 3 pages of verified audience reviews already, so what is going on?

[Arlborn]

25 minutes ago, Youngstar said:

I'm very confused by RT audience score. Why is it not appearing? There are like 3 pages of verified audience reviews already, so what is going on?

RT has been doing this lately, waiting for a day or two before putting up an audience score for big movies. This has been noticed in the past few months, I'm not sure why, but it's definitely a change.

[Blue35]

RT audience score opens at 90%
 

4.5/5 average rating 

Edited November 17, 2023 by Blue35

[Issac Newton]

Comscore/Screen Engine’s PostTrak shows 4 1/2 stars and 87% positive with a 70% definite recommend. Meanwhile, the Rotten Tomatoes audience score stands at 90%. True, the faithful come out first on Thursday, but that bodes well for word of mouth, and getting the excitement out there to others over the holiday week. Parents (mostly moms at 76%) gave the movie 5 stars/94% and kids under 12 are 4 1/2 stars/81%.

 

Women showed up last night to Songbirds & Snakes at 65%, which is a tad higher than Mockingjay 2‘s 60%. The 18-34 turnout was huge at 75%. Biggest demos in descending order were women under 25 at 36%, followed by women over 25 at 28%, men over 25 at 21% and men under 25 at 14%. Girls under 12 showed up at 75% with kids overall saying that the movie is a must-see at 94%.

[Noctis]

Strong movie. Exceptional performances especially from Rachel. I think the movie was a bit too long, but overall the story lands very well. 

 

Better than MJ1 and THG. I'd rank it similar to MJ2. Catching Fire is peak. 

 

I have no idea how the ending is called frustrating or abrupt...