The Marvels | November 10, 2023 | Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter

[PlatnumRoyce]

1 hour ago, Valonqar said:

 

Not possible since they took the title from her. You can't blame CM when she isn't in the title. 

 

 

If you don't know that poster advertises Captain Marvel 2, Disney has a lot worse headwinds than the name. 

 

Granted, the first poster does a worse job at it

 

 

Where, if anyone, Ms. Marvel gets center stage and this looks more like a team-up/crossover pitch rather than a star vehicle.

 

Like Birds of Prey, the name probably hurts but the degree it hurts is overstated.

Edited September 26, 2023 by PlatnumRoyce

[Eric Prime]

1 hour ago, Madhuvan said:

Saying since forever this should have been 

 

Captain Marvel 2

 

It's simple,  Marvel is setting up for failure of this and sadly Brie will be blamed. 

Moderation

 

Please do not post conspiratorial nonsense about how a title means Disney purposely set up a movie to fail. It's basically troll bait and is not even remotely funny. Don't do this again.

[Valonqar]

I guess it's supposed to be a triple star vehicle but 2 didn't become stars prior to the movie. One character's show bombed hard cause nobody cared to watch, the other character was upstaged by other characters on a popular show that wasn't about her anyway. I think they counted chickens before they hatched. At least when it comes to Ms Marvel they expected a huge hit show (hence connecting her to X Men and putting her in this) but got the biggest bomb. They probably thought that Monica making an appearance as a child in CM was enough for emotional connection or whatever (assuming enough people even remembers her). 

 

That said, as before, I stand by that math works against ultra dire predictions. It's a breezy family-freindly movie with really short running time (translation: fast turnover) and still part of the most famous franchise brand. Bonus: 2 holidays (Xmas really saved Wakanda's face dom). It's not going under 700M WW, not after 1.1B for the first Avengers bump or not. 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Valonqar

[ChipDerby]

3 minutes ago, Valonqar said:

I guess it's supposed to be a triple star vehicle but 2 didn't become stars prior to the movie. One character's show bombed hard cause nobody cared to watch, the other character was upstaged by other characters on a popular show that wasn't about her anyway. I think they counted chickens before they hatched. At least when it comes to Ms Marvel they expected a huge hit show (hence connecting her to X Men and putting her in this) but got the biggest bomb. They probably thought that Monica making an appearance as a child in CM was enough for emotional connection or whatever (assuming enough people even remembers her). 

 

That said, as before, I stand by that math works against ultra dire predictions. It's a breezy family-freindly movie with really short running time (translation: fast turnover) and still part of the most famous franchise brand. It's not going under 700M WW, not after 1.1B for the first Avengers bump or not. 

 

Yes you keep repeating this garbage over and over. We get it. You don't think Iman is a star and you think the co-star of Wandavision wasn't a draw enough for you apparently.

[Youngstar]

4 minutes ago, Valonqar said:

I guess it's supposed to be a triple star vehicle but 2 didn't become stars prior to the movie. One character's show bombed hard cause nobody cared to watch, the other character was upstaged by other characters on a popular show that wasn't about her anyway. I think they counted chickens before they hatched. At least when it comes to Ms Marvel they expected a huge hit show (hence connecting her to X Men and putting her in this) but got the biggest bomb. They probably thought that Monica making an appearance as a child in CM was enough for emotional connection or whatever (assuming enough people even remembers her). 

 

That said, as before, I stand by that math works against ultra dire predictions. It's a breezy family-freindly movie with really short running time (translation: fast turnover) and still part of the most famous franchise brand. It's not going under 700M WW, not after 1.1B for the first Avengers bump or not. 

I'm still 100% convinced that Ms Marvel would have done way better, had it not been released alongside Obi-Wan. It just took all the spotlight away from Ms Marvel. I'm not saying it would have been a huge hit, but a lot bigger than what happend.

 

(Also Brie was talking about teaming up with Ms Marvel on the presstour for Captain Marvel 1 already, so it was partly her idea)

[Valonqar]

1 minute ago, ChipDerby said:

 

Yes you keep repeating this garbage over and over. We get it. You don't think Iman is a star and you think the co-star of Wandavision wasn't a draw enough for you apparently.

 

I don't think Iman is a star cause her show bombed which is a fact. How can one be a star if their show bombs? Not impossible that one day she will open something (look at Margot Robbie who went from double bombs last year to the biggest movie of 2023, or Cruise who went from the biggest dom hit and second biggest WW hit last year to a bomb this year for a supposed sure thing) but atm she is not a draw cause Marvel fans looked at Ms Marvel previews and her promo materials (interviews) and went "nah I'm fine". Likwise, why would Monica be a draw on a Wanda (and Vision) show? She wasn't set up to be and her character didn't stand out even as a supporting cause Agatha was better/more interesting. I see nothing controversial about stating the obvious since a lot of people here wonder why these 2 were made equal leads with Larson who is in fact a known name/star. 

 

Point being, blaming Larson for potential/likely drop at the boxoffice when her character name's wasn't even in the title doesn't hold. It's a team movie so team takes credit or blame. Simple.

 

 

[Valonqar]

10 minutes ago, Youngstar said:

I'm still 100% convinced that Ms Marvel would have done way better, had it not been released alongside Obi-Wan. It just took all the spotlight away from Ms Marvel.

 

Counterprogramming. Obi Wan audience is not the same. Ms Marvel was meant to attract teen girls and Zoomers in general. They didn't care. Others had no reason to care plus they got the show aimed at them (Obi Wan). 

 

When a show carries little interest it doesn't really matter when you release it. people simply won't watch even if there's nothing else.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Valonqar

[Deep Wang]

22 minutes ago, Valonqar said:

 

I don't think Iman is a star cause her show bombed which is a fact. How can one be a star if their show bombs? Not impossible that one day she will open something (look at Margot Robbie who went from double bombs last year to the biggest movie of 2023, or Cruise who went from the biggest dom hit and second biggest WW hit last year to a bomb this year for a supposed sure thing) but atm she is not a draw cause Marvel fans looked at Ms Marvel previews and her promo materials (interviews) and went "nah I'm fine". Likwise, why would Monica be a draw on a Wanda (and Vision) show? She wasn't set up to be and her character didn't stand out even as a supporting cause Agatha was better/more interesting. I see nothing controversial about stating the obvious since a lot of people here wonder why these 2 were made equal leads with Larson who is in fact a known name/star. 

 

Point being, blaming Larson for potential/likely drop at the boxoffice when her character name's wasn't even in the title doesn't hold. It's a team movie so team takes credit or blame. Simple.

 

 

You are focused waaaay too much on who is(or in this case, who isn't) a "STAR."

 

That shit does not matter at all.  

[Liiviig 1998]

Sure don't agree on the conspiracy shit that Disney set this to fail .

 

Ms marvel is my favorite character but honestly the show didn't do at all  that well . 

Same for Monica who was just ok in wandavision.

 

The 2 co leads can't sell this movie and the marvels is just a generic title tbh.

 

Agree with @Valonqar that captain marvel 2 and putting brei as the main focus in the trailers would have been way better.

 

WS has black widow 

HC had IM .

DS2 had Wanda.

 

Examples above the co leads were popular and created more interest .

 

BUT here like GA is probably  like "ok I guess".

 

CM is their main female lead and potential leader of the next avengers  team for crying out load and the atmosphere around it is just meh. Let's hope it's good at least to counter or   vindicate the weird  decisions made  around it's marketing and changes.

 

Don't if Marvel sucks at selling the  female appeal or angle bse the trailers just failed at that. That would have been a viable avenue to create buzz  and more interest.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[toutvabien]

Monica was literally in the first film. She did get some boost as a character from WandaVision, obviously not as much as that show's title characters (duh). She was always gonna have a pretty big role in this one. I don't know what impact a name really can have on a film, like it's still a film with Captain Marvel in the main lead role and mostly returning characters (Monica, Fury) and conflicts (the Kree). Kamala's addition shouldn't have any negative or positive impact, business-wise.

 

Comparing it to Birds of Prey, which was the R rated spin-off, meant to capitalize on the perceived love/success of Robbie's Harley Quinn, amongst young women, in the PG-13, really poorly received Suicide Squad is a little goofy.

[SpiderByte]

Idk why you're acting like they're hiding this is a Captain Marvel sequel when she's very prominently in all of the promotional material.

[Hatebox]

1 hour ago, ChipDerby said:

 

Yes you keep repeating this garbage over and over. We get it. You don't think Iman is a star and you think the co-star of Wandavision wasn't a draw enough for you apparently.

which one was in Wandavision?

[Valonqar]

27 minutes ago, Hatebox said:

which one was in Wandavision?

 

☝️

 

That's you casual audience wondering. Who are these people? Where were they? Why should we care?

 

1 hour ago, Deep Wang said:

 

 

You are focused waaaay too much on who is(or in this case, who isn't) a "STAR."

 

That shit does not matter at all.  

 

It mattered in Ragnarok where Star Thor and Star Hulk teamed up. It mattered in CW where 80% of Avengers aka Stars were in the movie. It isn't make it or break it but it helps when the point of a movie is a team up. As a rule, team ups are between stars. 3 Spideys. Thor and Hulk. 80% of Avengers either teaming up or fighting the other team in CW. 

 

The Marvels is different in that it doesn't introduce new characters unlike pretty much every standalone Marvel movie. It's a sequel where the formerly main character teams up with characters that audience already met - not some new characters that audience is yet to discover - and it just happens that, unlike Hulk in Thor or even Daredevil in She-Hulk, these characters didn't generate interest first time they were introduced into MCU. Doesn't mean they couldn't turn things around but the idea clearly wasn't to turn things around but to arrive as already popular. Otherwise they wouldn't have to release that awakward crash course trailer about who they are and what they have done on D+ shows.

 

But anyway, this discussion does go in circles so I'm leaving. Final thought: trust the math and context. AIW 2 comparisons don't stand (one off movie stretched into a sequel vs still the most famous movie brand that is built on sequels) while short running time allows more shows per day so it's actually good especially for a movie clearly aimed at kids, and Brie talk both good and bad is a free advertising so that's good. 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Valonqar

[ChipDerby]

31 minutes ago, Hatebox said:

which one was in Wandavision?

 

You're so edgy! 

[Avatree]

I really enjoyed the first captain marvel but I really don't care about this film. If Captain Marvel had a bigger role in Endgame maybe I'd be more invested, but I feel like we've had no reason in the past 5 years since the first film to keep up interest in her.

I've watched every MCU film in cinemas and this may be the first one I skip. Since GOTG is finished I'm pretty much done with MCU. The tv shows suck and since Endgame all the films (bar Guardians) have sucked.

 

Anecdotally, I know multiple other MCU fans who have given up at some point since Endgame. I dont think its controversial to say that a lot of people have stopped caring about the MCU, the box office seems to reflect this.

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Avatree

[Willowra]

4 hours ago, Valonqar said:

 

Nor is Shang Chi and you bet his sequel will be titled Shang Chi:Something. Ant Man and the Wasp still had Ant Man in the title and kept him in Quantimania title  even though AM was the smallest (boxofficewise) franchise. Fake Pather still had Black Panther in the title. Etc. No one is IM or CA (Steve Rogers) yet they have their names in the title just fine.

I've come back by acknowledging the dumb warning of a Mod just to like this comment. You asked if there had to be a reason why they changed the title. Both Marvel Studios and Nia announced the movie in 2020 as Captain Marvel 2, not as "untitled Captain Marvel sequel". So the only reason I can think of is Sexism. Sexism could be the reason why they changed the title, as they knew a section of their fanbase who are sexist hating Captain Marvel, and they didn't want other MCU movies to be negatively impacted by Captain Marvel. This might be the reason that they didn't talk about Captain Marvel 2 at both SDCC (2019 and 2022) events but talk about every other phase 4 & 5 movies. A Mod who seems to be a Disney shill to me is likeky to give me another thread warning for giving my opinion.

[ChipDerby]

37 minutes ago, Avatree said:

I really enjoyed the first captain marvel but I really don't care about this film. If Captain Marvel had a bigger role in Endgame maybe I'd be more invested, but I feel like we've had no reason in the past 5 years since the first film to keep up interest in her.

I've watched every MCU film in cinemas and this may be the first one I skip. Since GOTG is finished I'm pretty much done with MCU. The tv shows suck and since Endgame all the films (bar Guardians) have sucked.

 

Anecdotally, I know multiple other MCU fans who have given up at some point since Endgame. I dont think its controversial to say that a lot of people have stopped caring about the MCU, the box office seems to reflect this.

 

 

Is there any reason why you're choosing now to draw the line? Has the MCU done something since the great GOTG3 to drive you away? Seems odd to do it now.

[Willowra]

Just now, ChipDerby said:

 

Is there any reason why you're choosing now to draw the line? Has the MCU done something since the great GOTG3 to drive you away? Seems odd to do it now.

He thinks that Captain Marvel is a supporting character in MCU now, that's reasonable to think as Marvel Studios have treated her like Shazam & Blue Beetle.

[ChipDerby]

1 minute ago, Willowra said:

He thinks that Captain Marvel is a supporting character in MCU now, that's reasonable to think as Marvel Studios have treated her like Shazam & Blue Beetle.

 

Because of what reason? Her film is getting the standard 4 year sequel, and was in the Avengers film released after her film. And two characters directly tying into her character have had TV shows that heavily featured them.

[Willowra]

20 minutes ago, ChipDerby said:

 

Because of what reason? Her film is getting the standard 4 year sequel, and was in the Avengers film released after her film. And two characters directly tying into her character have had TV shows that heavily featured them.

Most of the GA don't consider Captain Marvel a big character because she had just a cameo in the last Avengers movie, so unless Marvel Studios shows them that she is a big character or officially announces her as one of the leads of Avengers, they won't see her as a big character, as people believe what they have experienced in the past. For example, people consider Wonder Woman a big character because DC officially projects her as one of the Big 3.