Top 100 Sci-Fi movies. No Superhero movies are allowed. Deadline is February 29th

[Tower]

If you are excluding Guardian Of The Galaxy or Man Of Steel, you are basically just doing that because of the source material, because the contents of the films are definitely Sci-Fi. Sci-Fi and and superhero are not mutually exclusive categories any more than horror and mystery or action and comedy.

[Tower]

2 hours ago, Menor said:

 

Edit: I guess if we go by the dictionary definition ("fiction based on imagined future scientific or technological advances and major social or environmental changes, frequently portraying space or time travel and life on other planets") it actually makes some degree of sense to exclude SW and SH movies, depending on how you define "based on". So I'm changing my vote. Although I do think that definition is a bit narrow and excludes several things that people would typically think of as sci fi.

Huh? How does Star Wars not fit this definition perfectly? 

"fiction"

It's obviously fiction.

 

"based on imagined future scientific or technological advances"

They travel between galaxies on space ships fighting with laser guns.

 

"and major social or environmental changes"

It doesn't even take place on earth and doesn't include our current social structures, and instead has the republic/empire Jedi etc.

 

"frequently portraying space or time travel"

Full of space travel.

 

"and life on other planets"

You don't even see Earth, it has nothing but life on other planets.

 

[Menor the Destroyer]

8 minutes ago, Tower said:

Huh? How does Star Wars not fit this definition perfectly? 

"fiction"

It's obviously fiction.

 

"based on imagined future scientific or technological advances"

They travel between galaxies on space ships fighting with laser guns.

 

"and major social or environmental changes"

It doesn't even take place on earth and doesn't include our current social structures, and instead has the republic/empire Jedi etc.

 

"frequently portraying space or time travel"

Full of space travel.

 

"and life on other planets"

You don't even see Earth, it has nothing but life on other planets.

 

"A long time ago"

 

For the record I pretty much agree with you that Star Wars and some superhero films should be considered sci-fi, just pointing out that you could find some criteria that would technically exclude them. I do think that there should be some way to limit the number of big franchise films so that lesser-known films will have a better shot.

Edited February 10, 2020 by Menor

[Plain Old Tele]

18 minutes ago, Tower said:

If you are excluding Guardian Of The Galaxy or Man Of Steel, you are basically just doing that because of the source material, because the contents of the films are definitely Sci-Fi. Sci-Fi and and superhero are not mutually exclusive categories any more than horror and mystery or action and comedy.

I mean, I would exclude them for other reasons.

[Barnack]

17 minutes ago, Tower said:

Huh? How does Star Wars not fit this definition perfectly? 

 

It is not set on a imagined future, it is an impossible one, it is a fantastic world of the past, it is pretty similar to an Arthurian set movie with magic.

[Tower]

25 minutes ago, Menor said:

"A long time ago"

 

For the record I pretty much agree with you that Star Wars and some superhero films should be considered sci-fi, just pointing out that you could find some criteria that would technically exclude them. I do think that there should be some way to limit the number of big franchise films so that lesser-known films will have a better shot.

Lol, I just realised that I have seen all the Star Wars films (except the recent one) and would recognise the "A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away" as Star Wars immediately, and yet I never actually thought about it and its implications. I have always imagined Star Wars as being set in the future because of all the technology.

[Tower]

44 minutes ago, Plain Old Tele said:

I mean, I would exclude them for other reasons.

I'm talking only about being an option to include. Despite what I said about Star Wars, I'm not going to have any on my list.

[Cap]

56 minutes ago, Plain Old Tele said:

I mean, I would exclude them for other reasons.

Glad you see you escaped Invaders clutches and got your mind back. 

[Rorschach]

Some personal FYCs of mine

 

[grey ghost]

Star Wars is sci fi with paranormal elements.

 

Paranormal as in the psychic, telekinesis, etc you find in movies and shows like X-Files and X-men.

 

And you can't just ignore the overwhelming abundance of spaceships, laser weapons, robots, and aliens and basically sum up the franchise as "King Arthur with magic" just because of a few paranormal themes or concepts.

 

C'mon.

[grey ghost]

FYC

 

Her

Ex Machina

Edge of Tomorrow 

Looper

Donnie Darko

Guardians of Galaxy Vol. 2

Artificial Intelligence

Equilibrium 

[Barnack]

6 minutes ago, grey ghost said:

And you can't just ignore the overwhelming abundance of spaceships, laser weapons, robots, and aliens and basically sum up the franchise as "King Arthur with magic" just because of a few paranormal themes or concepts.

 

C'mon.

They tend to be magic spaceships not an attempt of future technological possible spaceship too, it is not at all about imagining the consequence of a technological or social advancement/change, even in a metaphorical way imo. The presence of a robot do not make something sci-fi or not sci-fi automatically.

 

If it does under your definition sure, that make it de facto sci-fi without any possible debate about it. But I am not sure the c'mon is necessary it is not like the debate isn't common with I think most people putting it in the fantasy than Sci-f category if they have the choose between the 2.

https://www.google.com/search?q=is+star+wars+sci-fi&rlz=1C1CHBF_enCA733CA734&oq=is+star+wars+sci-fi&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l7.2823j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

https://medium.com/media-cake/the-definitive-answer-to-is-star-wars-science-fiction-or-fantasy-97d0042f644c

I’m going to answer the question of whether Star Wars is science fiction or fantasy definitively.

Star Wars is a fantasy set in space.

 

And that include some of the most important people opinion about it, George Lucas himself:

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/movies/a32507/george-lucas-sundance-quotes/

• "Star Wars really isn't a science-fiction film, it's a fantasy film and a space opera."

[grey ghost]

29 minutes ago, Barnack said:

They tend to be magic spaceships not an attempt of future technological possible spaceship too, it is not at all about imagining the consequence of a technological or social advancement/change, even in a metaphorical way imo. The presence of a robot do not make something sci-fi or not sci-fi automatically.

 

If it does under your definition sure, that make it de facto sci-fi without any possible debate about it. But I am not sure the c'mon is necessary it is not like the debate isn't common with I think most people putting it in the fantasy than Sci-f category if they have the choose between the 2.

https://www.google.com/search?q=is+star+wars+sci-fi&rlz=1C1CHBF_enCA733CA734&oq=is+star+wars+sci-fi&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l7.2823j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

https://medium.com/media-cake/the-definitive-answer-to-is-star-wars-science-fiction-or-fantasy-97d0042f644c

I’m going to answer the question of whether Star Wars is science fiction or fantasy definitively.

Star Wars is a fantasy set in space.

 

And that include some of the most important people opinion about it, George Lucas himself:

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/movies/a32507/george-lucas-sundance-quotes/

• "Star Wars really isn't a science-fiction film, it's a fantasy film and a space opera."

 

If you add up the details your probably looking at 90% soft sci fi and 10% paranormal elements.

 

Most people would naturally associate Star Wars with Star Trek, Serenity, Farscape, Stargate, etc.

 

The only thing fantasy about it is the paranormal stuff which can easily fall into the soft sci fi category. 

 

Associating the C-3PO, the Millenium Falcon, the Death Star, lightsabers, etc with LOTR and Harry Potter because it has a few paranormal elements is rather intellectually dishonest and contrarian. 

[Barnack]

11 minutes ago, grey ghost said:

The only thing fantasy about it is the paranormal stuff which can easily fall into the soft sci fi category. 

The made up worlds, the impossible ship doing impossible stuff , the sound in space, the little bear with small finger making complex tool, a lot of the fantasy isn't really usual paranormal. Fantasy is always paranormal no ? And I imagine could always go into some soft sci-fi category if we want too.

 

12 minutes ago, grey ghost said:

Associating the C-3PO, the Millenium Falcon, the Death Star, lightsabers, etc with LOTR and Harry Potter because it has a few paranormal elements is rather intellectually dishonest and contrarian. 

Going with the actual creator opinion on something isn't spectacularly contrarian, space Opera-fantasy is a really common genre.

 

16 minutes ago, grey ghost said:

Most people would naturally associate Star Wars with Star Trek, Serenity, Farscape, Stargate, etc.

I have no doubt, do most people would ever got interested in a is something space-opera fantasy or Sci-fi, read about the difference and form an opinion ?

[MrGlass2]

23 minutes ago, Barnack said:

Going with the actual creator opinion on something isn't spectacularly contrarian, space Opera-fantasy is a really common genre.

 

I have no doubt, do most people would ever got interested in a is something space-opera fantasy or Sci-fi, read about the difference and form an opinion ?

Starting with Lucas and you because (once again): anything space opera is science fiction, it is a subgenre.

Edited February 10, 2020 by MrGlass2

[Barnack]

25 minutes ago, MrGlass2 said:

Starting with Lucas and you because (once again): anything space opera is science fiction, it is a subgenre.

And a lot of them are in the subgenre of the fantasy:

Fantasy is a genre of speculative fiction set in a fictional universe

 

Making the conversation quite absurd if we take the extreme large embralla of Sci-fi that would englobe all of them, the answer being obviously both in that case.

 

I was using an more restrictive definition, the one the poster used that I quoted.

Edited February 11, 2020 by Barnack

[grey ghost]

53 minutes ago, Barnack said:

The made up worlds, the impossible ship doing impossible stuff , the sound in space, the little bear with small finger making complex tool, a lot of the fantasy isn't really usual paranormal. Fantasy is always paranormal no ? And I imagine could always go into some soft sci-fi category if we want too.

 

Going with the actual creator opinion on something isn't spectacularly contrarian, space Opera-fantasy is a really common genre.

 

I have no doubt, do most people would ever got interested in a is something space-opera fantasy or Sci-fi, read about the difference and form an opinion ?

Which is why I stated that Star Wars is mostly SOFT sci fi. Soft sci fi doesn't always have to make sense but still explores familiar sci fi tropes like aliens, space ships, laser weapons, robots, etc. Just because these sci fi elements don't strictly follow quantum physics doesn't make them fantasy. Not automatically. 

 

Paranormal does overlap with fantasy but I'd argue psychic and telekinesis fall on the sci fi end of the spectrum where something like Extra Sensory Perception has some level of plausibility if the brain developed some new skills.

 

Lucas is all over the place when it comes to the force. In one interview "it's magic" but in the actual prequels it's midoclorians. So the meaning of the force remains subjective and elusive which fits the paranormal category quite nicely.

 

There might be a 50 page thesis why the force is pure magic but common sense says the Star Wars universe is mostly soft sci fi with paranormal themes and concepts added.

 

 

[TwoMisfits]

Anyway, if I was to make a personal top sci-fi list (irrespective of quality), I'd make something as follows...

 

1. Galaxy Quest - funniest sci-fi I ever saw, and I went in with such low expectations for the movie - this was a Netflix-by-mail viewing (who remembers those days), and my spouse had picked it.  I never laughed so hard for so long in a movie:).

 

Tie for 2/3/4.  Terminator/Total Recall/A Clockwork Orange - only movies to ever give me nightmares.  Literally.  I have had 3 movies give me nightmares in life and these are it.  If you can do that in science fiction, you are probably doing something right.  I mean, no horror movie has ever given me nightmares, and I've seen quite a few, so sci fi - you win the true horror race.

 

5. Star Trek Nemesis (Malaysian bootleg with English subtitles) - only this edition.  As I've mentioned on the boards before, when my dad was dying of cancer around Xmas, my oldest brother wanted him to be able to see the last Star Trek movie that released around his death, but of course, my dad couldn't go to the theater.  So, in those early days of the wild, wild internet, my brother ordered what he thought was the movie off a questionable website.  It literally arrived the day of my dad's funeral, so he never watched it, but my siblings, mom, and I all watched it together that night.  And I have never again laughed so hard seeing people write subtitles who had no idea what Star Trek was or who was in it.  To this day, I don't remember what the movie was about, but I do remember some of those subtitles.  So, sentiment gets it in the top 5:)...

 

6. Spaceballs - most quotable sci-fi movie and one of the happiest memories of my childhood, seeing my brothers watch it literally every day...and I mean every day.  

 

Tie for 7 -  Minority Report and Edge of Tomorrow (aka Live, Die, Repeat) - my favorite actor, Tom Cruise, in 2 killer movies, both of which were underappreciated and unnerving.

 

9. The Truman Show (when it came out, it was sci fi - we can debate whether it's now come true) - my favorite serious-ish performance from Jim Carrey ever.  

 

10. Fill in your favorite Star Wars original trilogy or Star Trek original even numbered movie:)...they were all great, and really set the tone for so much sci-fi that has come since:)...

[Menor the Destroyer]

1 hour ago, grey ghost said:

Which is why I stated that Star Wars is mostly SOFT sci fi. Soft sci fi doesn't always have to make sense but still explores familiar sci fi tropes like aliens, space ships, laser weapons, robots, etc. Just because these sci fi elements don't strictly follow quantum physics doesn't make them fantasy. Not automatically. 

 

Paranormal does overlap with fantasy but I'd argue psychic and telekinesis fall on the sci fi end of the spectrum where something like Extra Sensory Perception has some level of plausibility if the brain developed some new skills.

 

Lucas is all over the place when it comes to the force. In one interview "it's magic" but in the actual prequels it's midoclorians. So the meaning of the force remains subjective and elusive which fits the paranormal category quite nicely.

 

There might be a 50 page thesis why the force is pure magic but common sense says the Star Wars universe is mostly soft sci fi with paranormal themes and concepts added.

 

 

The Force is not midichlorians. It is a magical energy field. The midichlorians link all living creatures to the Force.

[Barnack]

3 hours ago, grey ghost said:

Paranormal does overlap with fantasy but I'd argue psychic and telekinesis fall on the sci fi end of the spectrum where something like Extra Sensory Perception has some level of plausibility if the brain developed some new skills.

If it would have some level of plausibility, it is not like telekinesis could ever happen with an human brain, even with new skill. But are Star Wars Human even Homo Sapiens Sapiens to start with (That would make no sense...), it is set in a complete fantastic world in a fantastic time with about no link with our reality. But I am not sure that matter much, the importance is about exploring the theoretical consequence of something (that could be impossible or an metaphor of something possible without being possible by itself imo), Star wars isn't interested in that.

 

3 hours ago, grey ghost said:

Lucas is all over the place when it comes to the force. In one interview "it's magic" but in the actual prequels it's midoclorians.

That not what I remember, from what I remember those were particularly reactive to the force, like water molecule are when you microwave something, not the force.

 

Midi-chlorians were intelligent microscopic life forms that lived symbiotically inside the cells of all living things. When present in sufficient numbers, they could allow their host to detect the pervasive energy field known as the Force.

Edited February 11, 2020 by Barnack