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Eric Atreides

***SPOILERS*** ***SPOILERS*** ***SPOILERS*** SHANG-CHI AND THE LEGEND OF THE 10 RINGS SPOILER THREAD ***SPOILERS*** ***SPOILERS*** ***SPOILERS***

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2 hours ago, AJG said:

So you guys were into the invincible CGI Bat monsters? That worked for you?

I thought the evil dragon looked alright but it’s little soul eating minions looked pretty bad.

 

It didn’t take him out of the movie but they could of at least had a cooler design instead of looking like naked bats. 

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3 hours ago, AJG said:

So you guys were into the invincible CGI Bat monsters? That worked for you?

Not me. That kind of mayhem does not make an exciting finale. It's just a big dull noise. Also, once the CGI Crap killed Wenwu (lame death) the movie became completely anticlimactic. We knew that the bland hero would use his powah to destroy the CGI Crap because that's what such powers are for and that's what heroes who don't want to be like their powah-hungry daddy do - destroy the CGI Crap not people. But he took his sweet time because the audience wants more relentless CGI mayhem right? 

 

Again, that shit is mandated. You can be the best writer and director all you want but you can't circumvent a mandated formula. Sometimes directors with specific style insert something unexpected that elevates the formula (think GOTG's iconic dance-off) or are helped by the inventive set (think Ant Man's Thomas the Tank Engine) but more often than not it's all the same big noise with little dramatic value. That's why I rank IW above all MCU movies - the Chitauri 2.0-filled finale kept firm focus on the actual drama - real threat that Wakanda will be overrun (cue Thor/Rocket/Groot Byfrost themselves with the Stormbringer in fantastically rousing moment that had audience jump on their feet and cheer), the race against time to help Vision only for it to end in a tragedy, the pressure to get to Thanos before he snaps, only to fail to take him out due to overconfidence, the whole Fabled Weapon That Will Kill the Big Bad not working, the Snap and the horror of it. That's how you do the mandated CGI finale right. 

Edited by Valonqar
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I agree with what people are saying with the third act stuff. It’s clear Destin Cretton didn’t really think outside the box with the finale. The CGI is not perfect.

 

However I think the third act sort of works because the first two acts feel so small in scope and then all of a sudden you’re being taken to this world with dragons and giant lions. It’s just cool to see that world building and Marvel leaning into fantasy.

 

Comparing it to the terrible third act of Black Widow, this is at least more fun and refreshing for a marvel movie.

 

 

 

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I think the best action scene in the movie was the fight onboard the SF Muni bus.

Of course that I grew up in the SF Bay area and still  visit there a lot (I live 100 Miles away) has something to do with my liking that scene so much. I have actually ridden the #1 Califorinia Street bus more times then I can remember.....

 

I thought the Third act was OK.not terrible, but not as good as the first two acts. I think they were sort of trying to hard to be epic.

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Third act fight was quite good for me. I feel like people hold CGI sequences to a much higher standard than "practical" sequences and will bash on anything that isn't top-tier CGI as being unnecessary. Personally I like it when blockbusters go big rather than try to be "grounded" 

Edited by Menor
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5 minutes ago, Menor said:

Third act fight was quite good for me. I feel like people hold CGI sequences to a much higher standard than "practical" sequences and will bash on anything that isn't top-tier CGI as being unnecessary. Personally I like it when blockbusters go big rather than try to be "grounded"

It would be great if blockbusters went big and looked nice. It was pretty clear the entire last act was done complete by Marvel's pre-viz team instead of an actual director who knows how to shoot these kinds of scenes. Marvel could've gone with an action Chinese director who has experience shooting stuff like this (and of course letting them do their thing) and there's even two famous Hollywood Asian directors who executed what this was trying to do better (both made superhero films and one even made a popular Wuxia action film whose adjusted DOM gross this might not beat).

Edited by lorddemaxus
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30 minutes ago, Menor said:

Third act fight was quite good for me. I feel like people hold CGI sequences to a much higher standard than "practical" sequences and will bash on anything that isn't top-tier CGI as being unnecessary. Personally I like it when blockbusters go big rather than try to be "grounded" 

 

 

SOme of use care about things other then eye candy.

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The final fight is a textbook example of what people are talking about when they say CGI crap. Just a big ugly blue-gray mess. It's a shame because the movie is good, storywise I didn't have any problem with the third act, it's two dragons fighting FFS, it should have been awesome but it was just visually ugly. 

 

Overall I was pleasantly surprised with this, I'd recommend it. It's not gonna covert anyone who's not a fan of the MCU, all the same criticisms that people have of the MCU can be thrown at it, forced humor that doesn't always land, the big formulaic third act fight, etc., but none of that really bothered me. The film feels very confidently directed, like it know what it wants to do and does it well. Tony Leung and Ben Kingsley elevate the movie big time (Trevor is seriously a joy. He's become one of my favorite MCU characters along with Rocket and Luis). The bus fight is great, that came out of nowhere. Awkwafina didn't make me laugh... at all, but I do think she's a good actress. Simu Liu was... serviceable. That's all I can really say. He did his job, wasn't amazing, wasn't bad, but he did his job. 

Edited by MOVIEGUY
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15 minutes ago, MOVIEGUY said:

The final fight is a textbook example of what people are talking about when they say CGI crap. Just a big ugly blue-gray mess. It's a shame because the movie is good, storywise I didn't have any problem with the third act, it's two dragons fighting FFS, it should have been awesome but it was just visually ugly. 

 

Overall I was pleasantly surprised with this, I'd recommend it. It's not gonna covert anyone who's not a fan of the MCU, all the same criticisms that people have of the MCU can be thrown at it, forced humor that doesn't always land, the big formulaic third act fight, etc., but none of that really bothered me. The film feels very confidently directed, like it know what it wants to do and does it well. Tony Leung and Ben Kingsley elevate the movie big time (Trevor is seriously a joy. He's become one of my favorite MCU characters along with Rocket and Luis). The bus fight is great, that came out of nowhere. Awkwafina's character didn't make me laugh... at all, but I do think she's a good actress. Simu Liu was... serviceable. That's all I can really say. He did his job, wasn't amazing, wasn't bad, but he did his job. 

I think CGI should be used when there it's something  only CGI can do.

One reason why "THe Hobbit" Movies were not nearly as interesting visually as LOTR was that Jackson forgot whatthe did on LOTR  where he used practical effects and "Bigatures" when ever possible. With the Hobbit he tried to do almost every effect with CGI, and IMHO hurt  the film.

I also dispute strongly this whole "everything Marvel does needs to be huge and cosmic".

That is as stupid as the whole "everything DC does needs to be gritty and dark" thing and for the same reason:it puts limits on what a studio can do.

There is a lot in the Marvel Universe that calls out for a more grounded approach....Daredevil comes to mind.

And IMHO one of the best MCU films...Captain America:Winter Soldier was very gtounded and pretty gritty and dark.

Nice thing about the Bus fight for me is the designers made the bus set look exaclyt the way Muni Buses in SF look.  And the 1 Calofornia Street line is an actual Muni route...which I have ridden many times. And it's one Shang would have used since it runs right by the Fairmount hotel on Nob Hill where he works.

Edited by dudalb
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1 hour ago, dudalb said:

I think CGI should be used when there it's something  only CGI can do.

One reason why "THe Hobbit" Movies were not nearly as interesting visually as LOTR was that Jackson forgot whatthe did on LOTR  where he used practical effects and "Bigatures" when ever possible. With the Hobbit he tried to do almost every effect with CGI, and IMHO hurt  the film.

Bolded makes little sense to me honestly. There are plenty of other concerns at play when choosing whether to go CGI or practical and there are plenty of fake-looking practical effects. I will never understand the idea that practical effects are inherently superior just for being "real." None of these movies are actually real. 

Edited by Menor
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I don't think that practical is superior to CGI for both have their pros and cons and both can look incredible or laughable. However, I do think that effects masters get too carried away with CGI because easier to create an effect so we have multiplication of threat for the lack of better word. For example, it's hard to build a practical monster so you would likely have 2 monsters, a good one and a bad one duke it out, but CGI allows you to give the evil creature 100 evil sidekicks so to speak. Which overwhelms the screen. My biggest pet peeve is CGI tornado, you know that shitty effect when pixelated dust swirls around heroes while they yell? That ugly thing that ruined WW finale? Action movies love that shit as well as falling buildings and debris that all look weightless. Remember those ugly fake rocks that Rey lifted with the Force? Terrible. So that's something you wouldn't get from practical effect. She would lift a giant rock blocking the exit, not 100 of giant rocks that are obviously as light as balloons. 

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6 minutes ago, Valonqar said:

I don't think that practical is superior to CGI for both have their pros and cons and both can look incredible or laughable. However, I do think that effects masters get too carried away with CGI because easier to create an effect so we have multiplication of threat for the lack of better word. For example, it's hard to build a practical monster so you would likely have 2 monsters, a good one and a bad one duke it out, but CGI allows you to give the evil creature 100 evil sidekicks so to speak. Which overwhelms the screen. My biggest pet peeve is CGI tornado, you know that shitty effect when pixelated dust swirls around heroes while they yell? That ugly thing that ruined WW finale? Action movies love that shit as well as falling buildings and debris that all look weightless. Remember those ugly fake rocks that Rey lifted with the Force? Terrible. So that's something you wouldn't get from practical effect. She would lift a giant rock blocking the exit, not 100 of giant rocks that are obviously as light as balloons. 

I did not like the CGI in the WW finale but the rocks in TLJ looked fine to me, as did the creatures in this film. I agree with others that the gray lighting was ugly but I didn't have a problem with the bat sidekicks.

 

Actually now that I go back and rewatch the scene, I think having many rocks that appear sort of weightless better fits what the scene is trying to convey. It would have a different tone if they did what you suggest.  

Edited by Menor
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