⊃∪∩⪽ Part II | March 1, 2024 | Reactions drop February 15, reviews February 21 | Zendaya for our next C-3P0

[AMC Theaters Enjoyer]

Just imagined Bob Odenkirk as the Emperor and now I can't get that out of my head.

[lorddemaxus]

6 minutes ago, AMC Theaters Enjoyer said:

Just imagined Bob Odenkirk as the Emperor and now I can't get that out of my head.

I'll do you one better. Larry David as the emperor

[IchwanBigBrother]

4 hours ago, lorddemaxus said:

As someone who hasn't read Dune but am familiar with what happens in Messiah, I would be very disappointed if Legendary or WB don't allow Villeneuve to actually follow through with the uncomfortable parts of it. There's a part of me that still feels like they'll sugar-coat it.

If Part Two makes as much money as its potential, this concern should be quashed. Maybe even under the Zaslav regime. Villeneuve is also talented enough to deliver the discomfort in such a way that it will still entertain and leave the audience with some room to wonder about the story's future. One thing working in its favor is I think audiences now are more accepting of the kind of complex themes Messiah introduces in high profile entertainment than they once were. I remember how early on before production of Part One was done DV mentioned THE GODFATHER as a comparative touch point for the story. I was very glad to hear that - those were hit films but they definitely were heavy ones too. 

[von Kenni]

4 hours ago, JustLurking said:

Went to see the re-release in theaters since I didn't go see it at the time due to covid. Got to see a little sneak of Dune2 at the end. Release date can't come soon enough!

 

4 hours ago, Johnny Tran said:

Denis has never made a bad film.  I'm really hyped. I agree with others that Part One is definitely better and better on rewatch. 

 

Missed the IMAX during the original release and as I hoped get to see it this Monday before Part 2 opens.

 

First the LOTR by Peter Jackson and now Dune by Villeneuve. Both of my favorite books done by people who love and respect the source material. Sweet.

 

[Valonqar]

There's isn't just zero chance that Dune:Messiah won't be made. There's negative numbers chance. 

[von Kenni]

On 1/29/2024 at 5:16 AM, Firepower said:

Why would it cost a lot less or as much as first Dune with higher paychecks, bigger star cast, more action and bigger scale? It makes no sense, sequels always cost more, unless it's direct-to-vod one or drastically scaled back sequel which it isn't.

 

Because:

• Above-the-line costs like director, producers, screenwriters & writers (primarily Villeneuve), and main cast were primarily done as a two-movie deal for Parts 1 and 2. Even with new cast members such as Austin Butler and Christopher Walken, they got great deals because they were already craving to be in Part 2 after seeing Part 1. Additionally if Legendary needed to renegotiate the deals a bit to make the Part 2 happen these costs would be even more residual based (success fee) as they initially were. But I think the contracts were initially already heavily residual based and there wasn't any renegotiating. Just finding the shooting days for everyone's schedules. These above-the-line direct costs are most likely tens of millions of dollars less for Dune Part 2 than if this would be e.g. an MCU sequel. Maybe even $50m lower with this ensemble cast.
• Even though Part 2 has new locations, sets, ships, costumes, etc. most of the pre-production was already done, and many of the sets, costumes, etc. are to be reused, and the same goes for those VFX libraries. I.e. Arrakis was already created during Part 1. All this significantly lowers the Part 2 costs likely with tens of millions of dollars.
• Some of the Part 2 footage was already shot during Part 1 (at least 15 min). Again, it lowers the overall costs with millions of dollars.

Now, is the $122m number possible? Maybe, but at least $165m for sure. If they would do it in a bloated, reshoot filled production like MCU has done movies for years, then we would be talking $250m or north from that but here, no.

 

On 1/29/2024 at 4:38 PM, PlatnumRoyce said:

I'm not sure but

 

 

If I had more time today I might be able to retrace my steps but if you go onto the hungarian language version of their government's cultural ministry(?) website (basically I could find this on an hungarian language site but not the separate one they made that was similar but in english) you'll see a selection of big films/tv shows recently filmed in hungary (including Dune 1 and Moon Knight) with budget numbers. I imagine Dune 2 would be on there by now. 

 

Thanks for the tip on the Hungarian source. It looks like a similar incentive structure to the UK. In Hungary, you get now even a 30% pack through rebates. In the UK just 10% needs to be costs related directly to local services and e.g. Indy 5's or Little Mermaid's filming in Italy was counted for the rebate. If Hungarian support is similar then Wadi Rumi and Italian filming are counted for it too.

 

Disney budgets are "announced" without the rebates but I guess there is a small chance that the $122m figure could be after the rebate which would make the actual costs before the rebate $174m.

 

I only found this source so far for Dune Part 1: https://index.hu/gazdasag/2019/06/17/a_dunee_lehet_minden_idok_legnagyobb_magyar_filmtamogatasa/

[Mr Roark]

Never heard about scenes for Part II shot back in 2020… Part II wasn’t even green lighted at that time for obvious reasons. Maybe Denis reused some footage but “at least 15 mins” seems a lot.

[PlatnumRoyce]

2 hours ago, von Kenni said:

 

Because:

• Above-the-line costs like director, producers, screenwriters & writers (primarily Villeneuve), and main cast were primarily done as a two-movie deal for Parts 1 and 2. Even with new cast members such as Austin Butler and Christopher Walken, they got great deals because they were already craving to be in Part 2 after seeing Part 1. Additionally if Legendary needed to renegotiate the deals a bit to make the Part 2 happen these costs would be even more residual based (success fee) as they initially were. But I think the contracts were initially already heavily residual based and there wasn't any renegotiating. Just finding the shooting days for everyone's schedules. These above-the-line direct costs are most likely tens of millions of dollars less for Dune Part 2 than if this would be e.g. an MCU sequel. Maybe even $50m lower with this ensemble cast.
• Even though Part 2 has new locations, sets, ships, costumes, etc. most of the pre-production was already done, and many of the sets, costumes, etc. are to be reused, and the same goes for those VFX libraries. I.e. Arrakis was already created during Part 1. All this significantly lowers the Part 2 costs likely with tens of millions of dollars.
• Some of the Part 2 footage was already shot during Part 1 (at least 15 min). Again, it lowers the overall costs with millions of dollars.

Now, is the $122m number possible? Maybe, but at least $165m for sure. If they would do it in a bloated, reshoot filled production like MCU has done movies for years, then we would be talking $250m or north from that but here, no.

 

 

Thanks for the tip on the Hungarian source. It looks like a similar incentive structure to the UK. In Hungary, you get now even a 30% pack through rebates. In the UK just 10% needs to be costs related directly to local services and e.g. Indy 5's or Little Mermaid's filming in Italy was counted for the rebate. If Hungarian support is similar then Wadi Rumi and Italian filming are counted for it too.

 

Disney budgets are "announced" without the rebates but I guess there is a small chance that the $122m figure could be after the rebate which would make the actual costs before the rebate $174m.

 

I only found this source so far for Dune Part 1: https://index.hu/gazdasag/2019/06/17/a_dunee_lehet_minden_idok_legnagyobb_magyar_filmtamogatasa/

I didn't completely recreate it, but here's the big official government spreadsheet (I'm about 90% sure I saw the image/HTML table on this website)

Look for "

Dűne 2" ( and Dune/Royalty for Dune 1)   I see a claim of 64M in production costs for Dune Part 2 and 8.5M for Part 1 at a VERY VERY quick glance (got to watch football) so it's probably just Hungarian specific data.

https://www-nemzetifilmiroda-hu.translate.goog/aktualis?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Edited February 11 by PlatnumRoyce

[Avatree]

3 hours ago, von Kenni said:

 

Because:

• Above-the-line costs like director, producers, screenwriters & writers (primarily Villeneuve), and main cast were primarily done as a two-movie deal for Parts 1 and 2. Even with new cast members such as Austin Butler and Christopher Walken, they got great deals because they were already craving to be in Part 2 after seeing Part 1. Additionally if Legendary needed to renegotiate the deals a bit to make the Part 2 happen these costs would be even more residual based (success fee) as they initially were. But I think the contracts were initially already heavily residual based and there wasn't any renegotiating. Just finding the shooting days for everyone's schedules. These above-the-line direct costs are most likely tens of millions of dollars less for Dune Part 2 than if this would be e.g. an MCU sequel. Maybe even $50m lower with this ensemble cast.
• Even though Part 2 has new locations, sets, ships, costumes, etc. most of the pre-production was already done, and many of the sets, costumes, etc. are to be reused, and the same goes for those VFX libraries. I.e. Arrakis was already created during Part 1. All this significantly lowers the Part 2 costs likely with tens of millions of dollars.
• Some of the Part 2 footage was already shot during Part 1 (at least 15 min). Again, it lowers the overall costs with millions of dollars.

Now, is the $122m number possible? Maybe, but at least $165m for sure. If they would do it in a bloated, reshoot filled production like MCU has done movies for years, then we would be talking $250m or north from that but here, no.

 

 

Thanks for the tip on the Hungarian source. It looks like a similar incentive structure to the UK. In Hungary, you get now even a 30% pack through rebates. In the UK just 10% needs to be costs related directly to local services and e.g. Indy 5's or Little Mermaid's filming in Italy was counted for the rebate. If Hungarian support is similar then Wadi Rumi and Italian filming are counted for it too.

 

Disney budgets are "announced" without the rebates but I guess there is a small chance that the $122m figure could be after the rebate which would make the actual costs before the rebate $174m.

 

I only found this source so far for Dune Part 1: https://index.hu/gazdasag/2019/06/17/a_dunee_lehet_minden_idok_legnagyobb_magyar_filmtamogatasa/

You are completely wrong, The two films were literally filmed 3 years apart from each other.

[PlatnumRoyce]

14 hours ago, Avatree said:

You are completely wrong, The two films were literally filmed 3 years apart from each other.

That Hungarian tax credit document I linked to shows

 

• Production on Dune 1 starts on 6/25/2018 and runs through 2020/12/22 with filming starting on 3/18/2019
• production on Dune's Additional photography starts on 2020/03/05 and ends on 2020/12/22 with filming starting on 2020/8/10 (matching Oscar Isaac's comments at the time).
• Production on Dune 2 starts on 11/4/2021 and runs through 12/31/2023 with filming starting on 7/11/2022

So there's likely a little over a year of downtime in Hungary between wrapping the first film's production starting the next one and 1.5-2 years before filming begins. 

 

I have no idea how to interpret that to answer this question but I thought it would be useful to explicitly lay out.

[Merkel]

The Paris premier is tonight, correct?

 

Should we expect some social media reactions later tonight (as unreliable as they tend to be)?

[JustLurking]

6 minutes ago, Merkel said:

The Paris premier is tonight, correct?

 

Should we expect some social media reactions later tonight (as unreliable as they tend to be)?

Should have just started I think, and yeah probably but not sure if that'll include french critics

Edited February 12 by JustLurking

[wildphantom]

UK tickets now on sale. Got my IMAX ticket and the day booked off - cannot wait. 
 

 

[Avatree]

6 hours ago, PlatnumRoyce said:

That Hungarian tax credit document I linked to shows

 

• Production on Dune 1 starts on 6/25/2018 and runs through 2020/12/22 with filming starting on 3/18/2019
• production on Dune's Additional photography starts on 2020/03/05 and ends on 2020/12/22 with filming starting on 2020/8/10 (matching Oscar Isaac's comments at the time).
• Production on Dune 2 starts on 11/4/2021 and runs through 12/31/2023 with filming starting on 7/11/2022

So there's likely a little over a year of downtime in Hungary between wrapping the first film's production starting the next one and 1.5-2 years before filming begins. 

 

I have no idea how to interpret that to answer this question but I thought it would be useful to explicitly lay out.

You're missing the point, I'm saying part 1 and part 2 were made as completely separate films. Your claim that they shot some of part 2 during the production of part 1 is just untrue. This film's budget is not covered by part 1.

 

  

1 hour ago, wildphantom said:

UK tickets now on sale. Got my IMAX ticket and the day booked off - cannot wait. 
 

 

I was gonna see Dune this weekend but I noticed Cineworld is showing Dune on the 29th of Feb, so can do a double bill over two days.

 

 

Edited February 12 by Avatree

[von Kenni]

20 hours ago, Avatree said:

You are completely wrong, The two films were literally filmed 3 years apart from each other.

 

Could you elaborate on that more?

 

How does that affect the deals made for both Part 1 and Part 2? Or any of my other points? It's not as if they burn the sets and preproduction work in between and start from scratch. Storing stuff isn't free either but as PlatnumRoyce digged the shooting dates the difference between the productions was much less than 3 years.

 

21 hours ago, PlatnumRoyce said:

I didn't completely recreate it, but here's the big official government spreadsheet (I'm about 90% sure I saw the image/HTML table on this website)

Look for "

Dűne 2" ( and Dune/Royalty for Dune 1)   I see a claim of 64M in production costs for Dune Part 2 and 8.5M for Part 1 at a VERY VERY quick glance (got to watch football) so it's probably just Hungarian specific data.

https://www-nemzetifilmiroda-hu.translate.goog/aktualis?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

 

5 hours ago, PlatnumRoyce said:

That Hungarian tax credit document I linked to shows

 

• Production on Dune 1 starts on 6/25/2018 and runs through 2020/12/22 with filming starting on 3/18/2019
• production on Dune's Additional photography starts on 2020/03/05 and ends on 2020/12/22 with filming starting on 2020/8/10 (matching Oscar Isaac's comments at the time).
• Production on Dune 2 starts on 11/4/2021 and runs through 12/31/2023 with filming starting on 7/11/2022

So there's likely a little over a year of downtime in Hungary between wrapping the first film's production starting the next one and 1.5-2 years before filming begins. 

 

I have no idea how to interpret that to answer this question but I thought it would be useful to explicitly lay out.

 

Thanks again for the awesome sources. I went through them and found some interesting numbers. I'm not sure where you got the $64m number but these are what I found:

 

Part 1

 

29.6B Forints actual production costs (incl. additional photography) which a higher exchange rate at the time translates to about $100m with 30% of it paid back as incentives. That earlier article stated the Hungarian production costs at $87m which I'm pretty sure they got by using the exchange rate at the time of writing that article (around 0.0035 USD/Ft) and using the planned budget of 25 Forints.

 

Part 2

 

49.5B Forints actual production costs with a lower exchange rate during primary photography and throughout the production than Part 1 will translate into $125-130m with 30% of it paid back as incentives. Again, the $122m number is most likely the planned Hungarian production budget of 46.1B Forints used with an exchange rate of 0.00265 USD/Ft at the time (maybe someone can dig up the original date of reporting the $122m but if it hits somewhere around June, July, August or November, December in 2022, that was the time when the exchange rate was around that 0.00265).

 

A couple of additional Notes

 

1. We don't know for sure yet if the Hungarian production budget works like with the UK incentive, i.e. that only a fraction like 10% needs to be actual Hungarian services and the rest can be just billed through even if the actual production happens in Wadi Rumi, Jordan. However, the sizes of these budgets suggest that it works like that and it seems that these budgets are most likely most or all of the below-the-line production budgets for these films.

 

2. If these budgets include the same type of costs (e.g. production costs for shooting outside Hungary), we can likely conclude that Part 2 costs more than Part 1. It doesn't necessarily mean it costs $25-30m more. It can be less or even more depending on the rest of the costs. If Part 2 Hungarian budget includes the type of costs that Part 1 for some reason didn't include (i.e. using more local services or finding ways to incorporate outside costs to it that they couldn't add during Part 1), then Part 2 didn't necessarily cost any more than Part 1.

 

3. A quick googling revealed that Part 1 was possibly $30m cheaper than originally reported (Reddit of all sources...would like to have other sources for this). Dune Part 1 production got that $30m repay so that might very well be that difference. I.e. they announced the $165m budget without already saying that they will have that repayment. Same as with many current Disney and Marvel films shot in UK. This is for marketing purposes to be seen as a large-scale production (which has a lot lost its meaning since the time of Titanic).

 

4. If the other costs are the same as Part 1 ($165-$100m=$65m) then Part 2 will have a budget of $190-195m before repayment and around $155m after it.

 

5. About using Part 1 filming for Part 2. They shot about 15min scenes that happened right after Part 1 ended but due to studio pressure, or so it is reported, Villeneuve needed to shorten the Part 1 runtime and cut those scenes out. Now we can't be sure if all of that is going to be used but knowing what the scenes are at least some or most of it needs to be used for Part 2. Of course, he could have reshot them.

[von Kenni]

48 minutes ago, Avatree said:

You're missing the point, I'm saying part 1 and part 2 were made as completely separate films. Your claim that they shot some of part 2 during the production of part 1 is just untrue. This film's budget is not covered by part 1.

 

  

I was gonna see Dune this weekend but I noticed Cineworld is showing Dune on the 29th of Feb, so can do a double bill over two days.

 

 

 

 

I elaborated on the footage in question in my post just now but that's not the main point of saving of costs. Maybe a few million at most if it is all used. The bigger savings were related to the other points that I made and even if they had a lot of new sets and set making they did a lot of sets, VFX libraries, costumes, art design, etc. pre-production and production work that they can reuse in Part 2. That said, they can still spend a lot more and more to do more grandiose stuff but the question here was if it is possible to do Part 2 even with a lower budget than Part 1. With regard to my points, I'd say yes, even if unlikely. It's a different question what the actual numbers are until we know them for sure.

Going through the Hungarian budget numbers in detail in my previous post, it seems that they spend more for Part 2 and we probably know now where the $122m number comes from. It's not the whole budget but the estimated Hungarian budget based on a certain currency exchange rate.

Edited February 12 by von Kenni

[IchwanBigBrother]

2 hours ago, JustLurking said:

Should have just started I think, and yeah probably but not sure if that'll include french critics

The review embargo (I believe worldwide) is until the 21st in all time zones. But these days, social media is encroaching on it and many French reactions will come in soon I'm sure. I seem to recall France receiving Part One very well. No reason to think different on Part Two. 

[PlatnumRoyce]

The ~64M number just came from rushing through the spreadsheet by finding Dune 2 and looking at the last numerical value in the table (which in reality was just the gross spend from October -> December 2022). I'm glad you were able to take a look at this and correct that misread.

 

  

28 minutes ago, von Kenni said:

1. We don't know for sure yet if the Hungarian production budget works like with the UK incentive, i.e. that only a fraction like 10% needs to be actual Hungarian services and the rest can be just billed through even if the actual production happens in Wadi Rumi, Jordan. However, the sizes of these budgets suggest that it works like that and it seems that these budgets are most likely most or all of the below-the-line production budgets for these films.

Quote

Production expenses incurred outside of Hungary can qualify in an amount up to 1/4 of the total qualified Hungarian production expenses. If 100 units are spent in Hungary, another 25 units of foreign spend can also be deemed qualifying/eligible spend. This is what can increase the effective tax rebate from 30 to 37.5% (of the qualifying Hungarian budget). Examples of qualifying foreign spend: - https://herosquared.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Film-Rebate-for-films-in-Hungary-2020.pdf

Of course that's not a primary source but I can't imagine it's wrong. 

Edited February 12 by PlatnumRoyce

[von Kenni]

31 minutes ago, PlatnumRoyce said:

Yeah, just ignore the 66M, it came from rushing through the spreadsheet by finding Dune 2 and looking at the last numerical value in the table (which in reality was just the gross spend from October -> December 2022). 

 

  

Of course that's not a primary source but I can't imagine it's wrong. 

 

I also missed those breakdowns from columns AG to AN which show that Part 2 primary production costs happened when Forint was its cheapest. Without knowing exactly when the currency exchanges happened and bills were paid it looks safe to say that the Hungarian spending was around $125m if not even less and not $130m or more.

 

Part 1 is really scattered in breakdown but with a glance looks like the higher exchange rates are accurate there too. If someone wants to calculate exacts, go ahead

 

The Hungary rebate info is great again. I.e. Legendary is very much incentivized to do as much as possible locally in Hungary and then utilize productions and shooting outside up to that 25 % mark ...which I guess practically is 25/125 = 20%. I.e. if they want to use the rebate fully only 20% of production costs should be outside like from filming in Italy or Wadi Rumi. I don't think that Part 1 and 2 Hungarian budgets are therefore exactly comparable but we don't know exactly which way they lean. Some hints might be to find out how many days they shot in each location and compare those numbers between Part 1 and 2. But that doesn't tell about possibly concentrating post-production more on Hungary or some other costs that they couldn't do with Part 1 there but now can. But at least we should know the ballparks with these numbers. The actual budget after rebates probably is around $150m to $170m.

Edited February 12 by von Kenni

[Maggie]

The screening has ended in France. Lots of 5 stars on letterboxd

Edited February 12 by Maggie