The Rust/Baldwin Shooting Thread.

[dudalb]

This has been dominating film industry news ever since Friday, and shows no sigh of ending any time soon, and we have discussion spread over a couple of threads,so maybe it should get it's own.

I still can't get my head around the level of incompetence displayed to allow this to happen. heads need to roll over this.  Every safety protocol for firearms on a film set seems to have been ignored. This will have major repucussions in the industry.

As of now, Baldwin seems to be a pretty innocent party, though that might change. IMHO every cast and crew member on a set where firearms are used needs to be trained in basic firearm safety.

ANd every body who handles a gun on a set needs to know how to check to see if it loaded or not. It's not that hard to learn, folks. I speak as a US Army vet and someone who has been reenactor handling 19th Century firearms for over 20 years.

[Plain Old Tele]

 

[famicommander]

Baldwin is a producer on the film and as a union actor he should know to only take the weapon from the armorer and to see for himself that it's clear before taking possession of it.

 

Baldwin absolutely deserves his share of the blame here, among many others. The AD who handed him the weapon, the armorer, every producer who ignored safety concerns, the propmaster. Plenty of blame to go around, there's no excuse for this happening. 

[dudalb]

1 hour ago, famicommander said:

Baldwin is a producer on the film and as a union actor he should know to only take the weapon from the armorer and to see for himself that it's clear before taking possession of it.

 

Baldwin absolutely deserves his share of the blame here, among many others. The AD who handed him the weapon, the armorer, every producer who ignored safety concerns, the propmaster. Plenty of blame to go around, there's no excuse for this happening. 

Did Baldwin know how to check the gun to see if was loaded?

I ask because I have some doubts on that.

One thing that should come out of this:Every actor and crew member on any set where Guns are to be used should have to take a course in basic gun safety..no excpetions. I don't care if you are the biggest name in Hollywood and you are getting 20 Million for the movie, you take a gun safety course like everybody else. And the first think they drill into you is ALWAYS check a gun to see if it's loaded when you pick it up. Don't assume anything.

The level of incompetence on this movie was just staggering.

I would not be surprised if the film never sees the light of day, and I think it might not even be completed.

[dudalb]

BTW Donald Trump Jr, aka "Fredo" is selling a T shirt with the slogan "Guns don't Kill People, Alec Baldwin Kills People".

Incredibly tasteless, of course, but it;s a Trump, what do you expect?

Clearly it's payback for Baldwin's ridiculing of Trump on SNL.

[Macleod]

4 hours ago, famicommander said:

Baldwin is a producer on the film and as a union actor he should know to only take the weapon from the armorer and to see for himself that it's clear before taking possession of it.

 

Baldwin absolutely deserves his share of the blame here, among many others. The AD who handed him the weapon, the armorer, every producer who ignored safety concerns, the propmaster. Plenty of blame to go around, there's no excuse for this happening. 

There are many different kinds of Producers.  From what we know so far, Baldwin will not be found liable whatsoever in this case.  As Gandalf said, "Do not be so quick to deal out death and judgment..." 

Edited October 28, 2021 by Macleod

[excel1]

Lots of unknown here, how did one bullet hit 2 people ?

 

Someone obviously guilty of negligence but Baldwin should be in the clear. 

[EmmaPeel]

Apparently the director was standing with the cinematographer behind the monitor. The bullet went through her chest and into his shoulder. 

Edited October 28, 2021 by EmmaPeel

[Barnack]

6 minutes ago, excel1 said:

Lots of unknown here, how did one bullet hit 2 people ?

 

Someone obviously guilty of negligence but Baldwin should be in the clear. 

Colt 45 is a really big caliber and shoot extremely close, the director got hit by the same object than the one that killed Hutchins that we know. If a dummy bullets got separated from it's casing and after that a blanks with enough charge has been used, it would be quite normal to injure a second person (and obviously if an actual bullet did end up there it would not be special).

[filmlover]

Why ‘Rust’ Producers May Choose Bankruptcy Next https://t.co/grgdkWQ8Vd

— The Hollywood Reporter (@THR) October 27, 2021

 

Honestly might be for the best. Even if the movie were to resume filming and was finished, would even a nothing distributor buy this with all the baggage it has? Just place it alongside Midnight Rider on the "unfinished movies lost to tragedy that could've been easily prevented" shelf.

[BoxOfficeFangrl]

 

 

Quote

Authorities in New Mexico have confirmed that the projectile that killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins and injured director Joel Souza on the set of Rust was a real lead bullet.

 

According to a preliminary investigation, the bullet, which was accidentally fired by actor Alec Baldwin Thursday, fatally struck Hutchins before hitting Souza, Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office spokesperson Juan Rios tells PEOPLE.

 

It has since been recovered from Souza's shoulder.

 

At a press conference Wednesday, Sheriff Adan Mendoza said investigators discovered "500 rounds of ammunition" on the set, including, "a mix of blanks, dummy rounds and what we are suspecting are live rounds."

 

 

Every new revelation is worse than the last...

 

Edited October 28, 2021 by BoxOfficeFangrl

[dudalb]

19 hours ago, Macleod said:

There are many different kinds of Producers.  From what we know so far, Baldwin will not be found liable whatsoever in this case.  As Gandalf said, "Do not be so quick to deal out death and judgment..." 

Fanboy much?

A person is dead, people have to be held responsible.

I agree un likely that Baldwin will not face legal charges, but as a producer on the film he had to approve of the cheapskate cutting of corners on costs that seems to be at the core of this..they  hired cheap help. I think Baldwin, by going along with this, has some moral if not legal responsibllity.

I note that some people seem be opposed to people being held responsbile for their actions...or not taking the right action.

Edited October 28, 2021 by dudalb

[Barnack]

5 minutes ago, dudalb said:

to be at the core of this..they  hired cheap help.

From my understanding the help was fully approved, accredited on a union certified set, they fully rely on guild for that type of work I think:

 

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm10588398/?ref_=nmbio_ch_1

 

Cannot be that cheap (minimum union is above $40 an hour), the issue could still be price, maybe it was a young someone hungry enough for work to accept to work on a movie that would not hire her enough help for the amount of work to do (or too fearful of not getting the gig to even ask for it or not have the experience to know it was needed). 

 

Is it normal for someone that young and that little set experience to achieve to become an head armourer ? Was there a bit of nepotism with her father involved ?

[Plain Old Tele]

7 minutes ago, Barnack said:

From my understanding the help was fully approved, accredited on a union certified set, they fully rely on guild for that type of work I think….

No, the union crew walked and the production replaced them with non-union locals on the same day (legal in NM, not legal in other states, depending on “right to work” laws).

 

There is no set scale wage for non-union crew-members, they negotiate their own deals with a production. Obviously hiring less-experienced crew means you’ll be paying lower wages (not to mention they may not have the work experience and knowledge to push back against producers).

[Barnack]

4 minutes ago, Plain Old Tele said:

No, the union crew walked and the production replaced them with non-union locals on the same day (legal in NM, not legal in other states, depending on “right to work” laws).

 

Maybe your heard more has an insider, but that not what was reported (at least in the beggining) that was a different department and at tiny set of worker no ?

 

, a half-dozen camera crew workers walked off the set to protest working conditions.

 

Maybe some non-union camera crew was involved and make it easier for the camera crew to be present instead that inside the video village (or behind a glass) for when an actor point a gun in the camera like I imagine the rules say to do, but that different than the gun handling by itself.

 

The armoreur which according to the deposition in charge that day was the credited one on imdb. Anyway that would not have been the hiring process.

[Plain Old Tele]

9 minutes ago, Barnack said:

Maybe your heard more has an insider, but that not what was reported (at least in the beggining) that was a different department and at tiny set of worker no ?

The camera crew was union and replaced, yes. 
 

The armorer was not a member of the union Local. But it’s not like there’s a specific accreditation process to become a union member — obviously you need a certain number of hours and/or productions to qualify, but it’s possible to be highly experienced and not be a member of a union. Many low budget productions tend to work with non-union crews (whether partially or totally), because typically it’s cheaper: you don’t have to pay into union health & pension, and the rates are more variable: you as an employer have far more power and flexibility over the crew-members in question. 
 

In the case of RUST, it sounds like they went for the cheap, inexperienced option for several crucial department heads, and in addition gave departments fewer crew-members than you might normally have. This is why one veteran armorer turned them down; they were unwilling to give him the crew he needed and other assurances about what he needed to do his job well. It’s also worth noting that all of the producers, seemingly, were relatively inexperienced themselves. They had been successful at other industry careers (Baldwin as an actor, the others as agents and bond company financiers, I believe), but they didn’t have the nuts and bolts experience of actual production. I don’t know who the UPM was, their name hasn’t come out yet, as far as I know. 

[Plain Old Tele]

Speak of the devil. The line producer has been revealed and — quelle surprise — she has a janky past. 
 

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/rust-line-producer-labor-violation-1235038353/

[Macleod]

3 hours ago, dudalb said:

Fanboy much?

A person is dead, people have to be held responsible.

I agree un likely that Baldwin will not face legal charges, but as a producer on the film he had to approve of the cheapskate cutting of corners on costs that seems to be at the core of this..they  hired cheap help. I think Baldwin, by going along with this, has some moral if not legal responsibllity.

I note that some people seem be opposed to people being held responsbile for their actions...or not taking the right action.

 

I don't know why anything of the very small amount I just said would somehow be construed as me being a "fanboy" of Baldwin.  In fact, I'm no fan whatsoever, but he's a human being who's caught in the middle of all of this -- and I have no idea what kind of role his Producer credit entailed here, and neither do you.  

 

Don't hate me for talking about reality.  All I said was that based on what we know so far (which can always change) it's unlikely that Baldwin will be found legally liable in this matter.  But none of us knows until it's settled, sure.  That doesn't mean he can't or won't do something to support the grieving family here -- I'm sure he will.  

 

It's a horrible situation all around -- let's not needlessly throw stones at each other.  

Edited October 28, 2021 by Macleod

[excel1]

Baldwin doesn't have fanboys. There are those who believe in treating people fairly, though. 

[Master Dodsen]

All I got to say is that everyone is culpable to some degree.  The Armorer should have known the difference between a live round and a blank.  The Assistant Director should have double-checked the firearm to ensure it had the proper round.  Alec Baldwin himself should had done the same.  The film's Director should have ensured that all safety procedures were followed.  Its a tragedy, but hopefully, one that will result in safety standards set and followed in the future.