May 13-15 Weekend Thread | 67.4% drop for Doctor Strange 2

[M37]

19 minutes ago, Brainbug the Dinosaur said:

 

Huge movies since 2006 that were clearly the children of their directors (imo) and where that style of filmmaking didnt lead to bad legs:

 

Like you said, the Pirates first two sequels and the two Guardians movies. Would add Ragnarok as well since that is 100% a Taika Waititi movie.

 

The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises as true Nolan Batman films. Less "weird" and more the technical/methodical stamp of his films. 

 

Not that many actually. Most really giant movies (Avengers/Star Wars sequels/Jurassic World etc) dont have that many aspects in them that would signal that a certain director must be the one that stood behind the camera. Unlike films like DMC or AWE, where its clear as day that they are Gore Verbinski movies.

 

Avatar (2009) is very debatable as well imo. But while everyone knows its a James Cameron movie, his films actually are very different from one another (someone who doesnt know films that much would probably say Terminator 2, Titanic and Avatar are 3 films from 3 different directors), rather Cameron films each have a "style" of their own.

I would put Wonder Woman and Black Panther on that list too, not necessarily  a director’s “style” per se (more apt for Coogler than Jenkins) but that they both clearly brought a specific perspective in the way story was told, that likely wouldn’t have come through in the hands of someone else 

[JohnnyGossamer]

Just now, ListenHunnyUrOver said:

Wanda is definitely the most popular female MCU character in 2022. Maybe The Marvels could propel Captain Marvel, but I’d say that Black Widow is less popular now that phase 4 isn’t focusing on her as much. 

Sure. For the more initiated, diehards, Wanda is #1 right now. Tons of people don't watch the series on Disney+ that are just casual fan. And, for the more casual fans, I'd say it's a no. I imagine more casuals know more about Gamora given how prominently she features in both Guardians and Infinity War than they do Wanda. They're definitely more familiar with Black Widow as she's an original and had a ton of screen time in a ton of MCU films and then Captain Marvel has 400M+ DOM movie so she's very, very known. 

[ListenHunnyUrOver]

Definitely heard some people say they were waiting until this dropped on Disney+ due to having kids, and this allegedly having scary moments. The MCU should probably stay away from horror and esoteric anything after Eternals and DS2. They need to get the gp back on board with another new story arc, or set up a new big bad. This multiverse is a Pandora’s box of potential  backfires or missteps. 

[ListenHunnyUrOver]

Just now, JohnnyGossamer said:

Sure. For the more initiated, diehards, Wanda is #1 right now. Tons of people don't watch the series on Disney+ that are just casual fan. And, for the more casual fans, I'd say it's a no. I imagine more casuals know more about Gamora given how prominently she features in both Guardians and Infinity War than they do Wanda. They're definitely more familiar with Black Widow as she's an original and had a ton of screen time in a ton of MCU films and then Captain Marvel has 400M+ DOM movie so she's very, very known. 

Captain Marvel was a divisive character, and Wanda has been in the MCU for almost a decade, is popular online, and is alive. Black Widow is popular, but that’s like saying Iron Man is more popular than Thor. Only one is active in the franchise rn.

[exomassey]

27 minutes ago, ListenHunnyUrOver said:

People are making a lot of excuses for the big drop. And just comparing this to Doctor Strange (2016) is a bit disingenuous given how it was marketed as a multiverse movie following NWH and has an additional lead character who is the most popular female character in the entire MCU whose show was one of Disney‘s first big hits for Disney+

I agree to an extent with people making excuses but again the movie seems to be suffering most from poor WOM.

As we have seen before you can have popular characters in a movie but if the movie itself isn’t great, their popularity can only carry the movie so much.

 

 

 

 

 

[ListenHunnyUrOver]

Just now, exomassey said:

I agree to an extent with people making excuses but again the movie seems to be suffering most from poor WOM.

As we have seen before you can have popular characters in a movie but if the movie itself isn’t great, their popularity can only carry the movie so much.

 

 

 

 

 

I just think playing this off as a solo movie of an unknown B-list Marvel character is disingenuous after Doctor Strange had a solo movie and was built up in following movies, and paired with a popular character as a co-lead, not to mention the promise of cameos galore, Sam Raimi’s return to the comic book genre and the fact that DS2 is the first proper MCU summer movie since 2019.

[Brainbug]

Just now, JohnnyGossamer said:

Sure. For the more initiated, diehards, Wanda is #1 right now. Tons of people don't watch the series on Disney+ that are just casual fan. And, for the more casual fans, I'd say it's a no. I imagine more casuals know more about Gamora given how prominently she features in both Guardians and Infinity War than they do Wanda. They're definitely more familiar with Black Widow as she's an original and had a ton of screen time in a ton of MCU films and then Captain Marvel has 400M+ DOM movie so she's very, very known. 

 

Funny enough, i didnt really care that much for Wanda all this time, but after MoM shes skyrocketed to beeing one of my top 3 favourite characters overall in the MCU, not just female characters.

 

2 minutes ago, M37 said:

I would put Wonder Woman and Black Panther on that list too, not necessarily  a director’s “style” per se (more apt for Coogler than Jenkins) but that they both clearly brought a specific perspective in the way story was told, that likely wouldn’t have come through in the hands of someone else 

 

Thinking more about it, i think its rather difficult to really pinpoint why and when a movie is successfull because (or despite!) a certain director brings a certain style of filmmaking and directing to it. In the case of Black Panther, while i knew it was a Ryan Coogler film, for most of the time it did "just" feel ... like a typical standalone Marvel movie. Wonder Woman was actually a bit more outstanding for me as far as directing goes, mainly because it felt a lot more vibrant and just different from the other DCEU films.

[exomassey]

1 minute ago, ListenHunnyUrOver said:

I just think playing this off as a solo movie of an unknown B-list Marvel character is disingenuous after Doctor Strange had a solo movie and was built up in following movies, and paired with a popular character as a co-lead, not to mention the promise of cameos galore, Sam Raimi’s return to the comic book genre and the fact that DS2 is the first proper MCU summer movie since 2019.

No yeah I agree, it had a lot of strong build up and expectations.

 

It seems the expectations ultimately killed it and people are disappointed with the movie.

 

One big complaint for this movie I feel is overlooked is that this movie isn’t fun at all. In my theatre, I think the crowd laugh once or twice. This movie is not a crowd pleaser imo.

[JohnnyGossamer]

30 minutes ago, M37 said:

I would put Wonder Woman and Black Panther on that list too, not necessarily  a director’s “style” per se (more apt for Coogler than Jenkins) but that they both clearly brought a specific perspective in the way story was told, that likely wouldn’t have come through in the hands of someone else 

I'd put those two more on the level of Reed's Ant-Man 2. Director's stamp is on it but they're played pretty safe. Not much going on in any of the three that would potentially put off any quadrant of a four quadrant audience. If we're going with just stamp and stamp of filmmaker shinning through I'd say Iron Man 3 and Wonder Woman 2 are a lot more in that category you're talking about and they actually did suffer for it a bit in each case with both not being nearly as adored as earlier films for the superhero had been... To me the best recent comparisons to Strange 2 would be those two... IM3 and WW1984.

Edited May 15, 2022 by JohnnyGossamer

[M37]

Strange MoM is what would have happened if Thor:Ragnarok, where the trailer promised to basically “Guardians the shit out it”, ending up being more like Dark World 

 

The NWH audience came out en masse for OW, and didn’t get what they wanted/expected, and that WOM has spread, so now we’re seeing what is left of the pure Dr Strange/Wanda audience post-Endgame, which is a smaller pool/tougher sell. (Which is also why I think it will stabilize by next week, not keep dropping >50% each week)

[JohnnyGossamer]

4 minutes ago, Brainbug the Dinosaur said:

 

Funny enough, i didnt really care that much for Wanda all this time, but after MoM shes skyrocketed to beeing one of my top 3 favourite characters overall in the MCU, not just female characters.

 

 

Thinking more about it, i think its rather difficult to really pinpoint why and when a movie is successfull because (or despite!) a certain director brings a certain style of filmmaking and directing to it. In the case of Black Panther, while i knew it was a Ryan Coogler film, for most of the time it did "just" feel ... like a typical standalone Marvel movie. Wonder Woman was actually a bit more outstanding for me as far as directing goes, mainly because it felt a lot more vibrant and just different from the other DCEU films.

Yeah. Wanda is a lot more intriguing to me now than she was prior to the Strange 2. Olsen was just awesome in it. She really carries a lot of it. Raimi let her have a lot of fun with the performance and she ran with it. Best chemistry in the film... Felt like her performance matched was Raimi wanted more than anyone else's in the film did and by a lot. Wish she was in it even more and everyone else a bit less. But, yeah, I did not feel that way and would not with WandaVision, Infinity War, Civil War or Ultron's Wanda. But, Mulitverse of Madness Wanda is definitely my jam. I think we're maybe in the minority on this one though.

[ListenHunnyUrOver]

I think one thing that helped the first 3 phases was the emphasis on the “staple characters” or Thor, Iron Man and Captain America to keep the gp interested in Mcu movies overall. Now we are already pretty far along into Phase 4 and the solo movies have been a send off to BW, and then introducing Shang-Chi, but is unclear what role Shang-Chi or the Eternals characters will play going forward. Who are the core characters? Shang-Chi, Wanda, Doctor Strange and Icarus? Messy messy. Feige needs a protege to take over as he moves on to Star Wars. The TV shows being in canon just opens the door for the dilution of the brand too. 

[JohnnyGossamer]

4 minutes ago, M37 said:

Strange MoM is what would have happened if Thor:Ragnarok, where the trailer promised to basically “Guardians the shit out it”, ending up being more like Dark World 

 

The NWH audience came out en masse for OW, and didn’t get what they wanted/expected, and that WOM has spread, so now we’re seeing what is left of the pure Dr Strange/Wanda audience post-Endgame, which is a smaller pool/tougher sell. (Which is also why I think it will stabilize by next week, not keep dropping >50% each week)

This.

[exomassey]

7 minutes ago, M37 said:

Strange MoM is what would have happened if Thor:Ragnarok, where the trailer promised to basically “Guardians the shit out it”, ending up being more like Dark World 

 

The NWH audience came out en masse for OW, and didn’t get what they wanted/expected, and that WOM has spread, so now we’re seeing what is left of the pure Dr Strange/Wanda audience post-Endgame, which is a smaller pool/tougher sell. (Which is also why I think it will stabilize by next week, not keep dropping >50% each week)

The advertising for this movie did sort of let it down imo.

 

Even though I don’t think the movie was that great, the advertising made it feel more epic and fun than it actually was.

[Factcheck]

26 minutes ago, ListenHunnyUrOver said:

Wanda is definitely the most popular female MCU character in 2022. Maybe The Marvels could propel Captain Marvel, but I’d say that Black Widow is less popular now that phase 4 isn’t focusing on her as much. 

Wanda is definitely the most popular female MCU character but would her popularity give any benefit to MCU movies in future? Most likely she would be some plot device like Winter Soldier for some Civil War type Avengers vs X-Men movie. I don't see her appearing in any of the movies for atleast next 4 years, her chance of appearing in next Avengers movie is also slim now after what she did in MoM.

Edited May 15, 2022 by Factcheck

[ListenHunnyUrOver]

1 minute ago, Factcheck said:

Wanda is definitely the most popular female MCU character but would her popularity give any benefit to MCU movies in future? Most likely she would be some plot device like Winter Soldier for some Civil War type Avengers vs X-Men movie. I don't see her appearing in any of the movies for atleast next 4 years, her chance of appearing in next Avengers movie is also slim now after what she did in MoM.

I would think her being in DS2 would bring in a female audience but it seems like MCU movies are going to skew male no matter what. 

[JohnnyGossamer]

2 minutes ago, ListenHunnyUrOver said:

I think one thing that helped the first 3 phases was the emphasis on the “staple characters” or Thor, Iron Man and Captain America to keep the gp interested in Mcu movies overall. Now we are already pretty far along into Phase 4 and the solo movies have been a send off to BW, and then introducing Shang-Chi, but is unclear what role Shang-Chi or the Eternals characters will play going forward. Who are the core characters? Shang-Chi, Wanda, Doctor Strange and Icarus? Messy messy. Feige needs a protege to take over as he moves on to Star Wars. The TV shows being in canon just opens the door for the dilution of the brand too. 

I fully agree here. They need to narrow the focus a bit eventually here. But, right now, I'd say still Thor unless he's done after Love and Thunder? I honestly don't know. After that, they're definitely rolling with Strange and Captain Marvel as leaders of the Avengers. It was obviously going to be Black Panther as #3 there but we all know what happened there. I think they're still very confident in Strange and Captain Marvel being two of the three or four new Avengers. I guess they could elevate the importance of Ant-Man and/or Wasp? But, yeah, they need to another to go with Strange and Captain Marvel. Be funny if it's someone like Rocket because it's all CG and you they only need Cooper's voice.

[Legion Again]

17 minutes ago, JohnnyGossamer said:

I'd put those two more on the level of Reed's Ant-Man 2. Director's stamp is on it but they're played pretty safe. Not much going on in any of the three that would potentially put off any quadrant of a four quadrant audience. If we're going with just stamp and stamp of filmmaker shinning through I'd say Iron Man 3 and Wonder Woman 2 are a lot more in that category your talking about and they actually did suffer for it a bit in each case with both not being nearly as adored as earlier films for the superhero had been...

Seems to be an implication here that a movie must have GA off putting elements in order to have a directors stamp on it? That makes no sense at all.

[JohnnyGossamer]

12 minutes ago, DS2HaterLegion Confirmed said:

Seems to be an implication here that a movie must have GA off putting elements in order to have a directors stamp on it? That makes no sense at all.

Yes. I think generally the more creatively personal a film is to the director, the less likely it is to appeal to the largest audience possible. That's not always the case but I'd say it's often the case. So, sure, the director can still have their stamp on it and have a huge audience but the closer they get to making exactly what they want, the less likely it is to appeal to an enormous audience. Again, there are some obvious outliers here but most of them for me are pre-MCU, DCEU, whatever current state of superhero movies. Obvious outliers are Burton's Batmans, Raimi's Spider-mans, Nolan's Batmans. The outlier now that were huge at the box office since 2010? I can't think of many.

Edited May 15, 2022 by JohnnyGossamer

[Torontofan]

I think another thing to realize is DS likely will do a billion ww so its a big gain no?