WGA/SAGAFTRA Strike Discussion Thread | SAG Ratifies Contract

[Cap]

My money is on Viacom/CBS/Paramount. 

[Porthos]

1 hour ago, AMC Theaters Enjoyer said:

What exactly is the likelihood of any studio breaking away from the AMPTP? 

 

4 minutes ago, Cap said:

My money is on Viacom/CBS/Paramount. 

 

Iger goes full Face/Heel/Face revolving door and shocks the entertainment world!

 

RIGHT OUT OF THE WWE PLAYBOOK!!!! 

 

Spoiler

no, I do not actually expect this

 

Spoiler

would be funny though.

 

 

[Reddroast]

7 minutes ago, Cap said:

My money is on Viacom/CBS/Paramount. 

Paramount and WB are my bets

[21C]

2 hours ago, AMC Theaters Enjoyer said:

What exactly is the likelihood of any studio breaking away from the AMPTP? 

100% dependant on how ironclad the legal agreement is which means we have absolutely zero idea.

[Porthos]

15 minutes ago, 21C said:

100% dependant on how ironclad the legal agreement is which means we have absolutely zero idea.

 

Now this is just the WGA's own presser and I'm efforting to find out if it's actually true or not, but...

 

Quote

In contrast, during individual conversations with legacy studio executives in the weeks since SAG-AFTRA went on strike, we have heard both the desire and willingness to negotiate an agreement that adequately addresses writers’ issues. One executive said they had reviewed our proposals, and though they did not commit to a specific deal, said our proposals would not affect their company’s bottom line, and they recognized they must give more than usual to settle this negotiation. Another said they needed a deal badly. Those same executives—and others—have said they are willing to negotiate on proposals that the AMPTP has presented to the public as deal breakers. On every single issue we are asking for we have had at least one legacy studio executive tell us they could accommodate us.

 

So, while the intransigence of the AMPTP structure is impeding progress, these behind-the-scenes conversations demonstrate there is a fair deal to be made that addresses our issues. Given the outsized economic impact of the strikes on the legacy companies, their individual studio interest in making a deal isn’t surprising. Warner Bros. confirmed this in a public financial filing just this week.

 

We have made it clear that we will negotiate with one or more of the major studios, outside the confines of the AMPTP, to establish the new WGA deal. There is no requirement that the companies negotiate through the AMPTP. So, if the economic destabilization of their own companies isn’t enough to cause a studio or two or three to either assert their own self-interest inside the AMPTP, or to break away from the broken AMPTP model, perhaps Wall Street will finally make them do it.

 

Until there is a breakthrough, the companies and AMPTP will try to sow doubt and internal guild dissension. Keep your radar up. When the companies send messages through surrogates or the press about the unreasonableness of your guild leadership, take those messages as part of a bad-faith effort to influence negotiations and not as the objective truth.

 

Haven't actually confirmed that, but it would be poor form on the WGA's part to have this be a partial truth or outright falsehood.

Edited September 9, 2023 by Porthos

[Reddroast]

4 minutes ago, Porthos said:

 

Now this is just the WGA's own presser and I'm efforting to find out if it's actually true or not, but...

 

 

Haven't actually confirmed that, but it would be poor form on the WGA's part to have this be a partial truth or outright falsehood.

Can you look into it?

[Squire]

12 minutes ago, Porthos said:

 

Now this is just the WGA's own presser and I'm efforting to find out if it's actually true or not, but...

 

 

Haven't actually confirmed that, but it would be poor form on the WGA's part to have this be a partial truth or outright falsehood.

Reading between the lines, it really seems early rumors that Netflix and maybe the other streaming-only studios are the real roadblock. I could also see Disney being a legacy holdout given Iger’s public comments. 

[Porthos]

12 minutes ago, Reddroast said:

Can you look into it?

 

Was looking into it and just got references to the WGA statement.

 

Google is a wonderful tool, but it has a frightful recency bias in its returns. :--/

[Porthos]

Okay, did find this buried in a Deadline piece from May:

 

Quote

Given the fundamental changes in their businesses and the different degree of impact by the strike, it is unclear whether the AMPTP will stay united through the end of the negotiations.

 

Word is that there are no rules demanding that all studios negotiate as a monolithic group through AMPTP.

 

A couple of years ago, the Hollywood talent agencies started off the same way, negotiating with the WGA through their trade association, ATA, until individual agencies started breaking off and making their own deals with the guild.

 

It is that outcome that may keep the strange bedfellows at the AMPTP together. While speaking with Wells on Strike Talk, Garner offered his opinion why the legacy companies may stick with their tech-based rivals despite diverging interests.

 

“I think it’s because they’re worried as a collective that kind of what happened with the agents is that the most vulnerable of the legacy companies will fall first and then that precedent will be set,” he said. “And like when the writers went against the packaging fees of the agents, the smaller, more boutique agencies signed first that forced the hand of the bigger companies, so I believe that they believe, as a collective, the they’ll get more in the long run together than they would if they were negotiating individually.”

 

Bolded key bits.

[Cap]

43 minutes ago, Porthos said:

 

 

Iger goes full Face/Heel/Face revolving door and shocks the entertainment world!

 

RIGHT OUT OF THE WWE PLAYBOOK!!!! 

 

  Hide contents

no, I do not actually expect this

 

  Hide contents

would be funny though.

 

 

MAH GOD, ITS IGER WITH A CHAIR!! WHAT IS HE DOING? (Hits Zas in the Back) NO, THAT GOD DAMN SON OF A BITCH! (Bob pulls WGA to its feet) FILTHY LIAR, UNTRUSTWORTHY SNAKE! 

[21C]

2 hours ago, Porthos said:

Okay, did find this buried in a Deadline piece from May:

 

 

Bolded key bits.

I'm incredibly, incredibly skeptical about that. Maybe there aren't rules that /they have/ to negotiate as a monolith, but my guess is that as soon as they're in the AMPTP and have commited to negotiate as a monolith they probably have some mechanism in place to avoid studios going off on their own. It does not seem conceivable to me in any way that these monoliths with the best and most cutthroat lawyers in town wouldn't guarantee that some way. 

Edited September 9, 2023 by 21C

[Ryan Reynolds]

Deadline says AMPTP united in not offering a fair deal , no division

[Porthos]

18 minutes ago, 21C said:

I'm incredibly, incredibly skeptical about that. Maybe there aren't rules that /they have/ to negotiate as a monolith, but my guess is that as soon as they're in the AMPTP and have commited to negotiate as a monolith they probably have some mechanism in place to avoid studios going off on their own. It does not seem conceivable to me in any way that these monoliths with the best and most cutthroat lawyers in town wouldn't guarantee that some way. 

 

And yet you think talent agents wouldn't be as cutthroat?  Given the stories I've heard, I doubt that.

 

Mind, I do think the internal pressure, social and otherwise will keep them in line, as seen by the presser released in the last hour.  But there is very recent precedence and that's goes a long way to dispel whatever skepticism I had over the actual structural impediments that might be in place.

[21C]

8 minutes ago, Porthos said:

 

And yet you think talent agents wouldn't be as cutthroat?  Given the stories I've heard, I doubt that.

 

Mind, I do think the internal pressure, social and otherwise will keep them in line, as seen by the presser released in the last hour.  But there is very recent precedence and that's goes a long way to dispel whatever skepticism I had over the actual structural impediments that might be in place.

What do talent agents have to do with this though? This is about companies so in this case there would be corporate lawyers. Tons and tons of corporate lawyers. 

[Porthos]

22 minutes ago, 21C said:

What do talent agents have to do with this though? This is about companies so in this case there would be corporate lawyers. Tons and tons of corporate lawyers. 

 

The talent agencies also have tons and tons of lawyers. 

 

More to the point, while "absence of evidence" is in fact overrated the very fact that none of the PR shills for the AMPTP Trades even hinted that studios wouldn't be allowed to break away does at least suggest that it is possible — possible being the key word — that it could happen.

 

Hell, even had a mouthpiece for the AMPTP one of the Trades bring it up as a possibility months ago!

 

Like, sometimes Corporate Big Wigs just aren't as smart/diabolical/omniscient as we think they are.  

 

[21C]

50 minutes ago, Porthos said:

 

The talent agencies also have tons and tons of lawyers. 

 

More to the point, while "absence of evidence" is in fact overrated the very fact that none of the PR shills for the AMPTP Trades even hinted that studios wouldn't be allowed to break away does at least suggest that it is possible — possible being the key word — that it could happen.

 

Hell, even had a mouthpiece for the AMPTP one of the Trades bring it up as a possibility months ago!

 

Like, sometimes Corporate Big Wigs just aren't as smart/diabolical/omniscient as we think they are.  

 

I mean, this isn't even about diabolical, it just that if they're all in agreement of negotiating together that'd have to  be bound by some sort of contract, especially since there has to be some sort of process to get to be a part of the AMPTP. One that would have to involve a contract at some point. 

Edited September 9, 2023 by 21C

[Sckathian]

5 hours ago, 21C said:

100% dependant on how ironclad the legal agreement is which means we have absolutely zero idea.

There’s too much rumour to really know what is going on. I don’t think it’s a 2023 thing but if this rolls to 2024 I could see some bring legal action to either leave or force a deal. 
 

it’s just a shit position to be in. They have signed up to work as a club with their direct competitors. The big streamers are still going to gain subs and can probably just bring in foreign shows. 
 

it’s a very dumb system really.

[Porthos]

50 minutes ago, 21C said:

I mean, this isn't even about diabolical, it just that if they're all in agreement of negotiating together that'd have to  be bound by some sort of contract, especially since there has to be some sort of process to get to be a part of the AMPTP. One that would have to involve a contract at some point. 

 

But a similar sort of process would also have applied to the ATA and their negotiations with the WGA.

 

Why is it that the WGA was able to split the ATA but wouldn't be able to do so to the AMPTP (aside, from you know, differing power dynamics, social structures, incentives, and all that jazz)?

 

...

 

You know what?  Did a little more research on this.

 

From the ALWAYS RELIABLE/NEVER INCORRECT Wikipedia:

 

Quote

The AMPTP was founded in 1924 as the Association of Motion Picture Producers (AMPP).^[1] It merged with the Alliance of Television Film Producers, or ATFP, in 1964 and was renamed the Association of Motion Picture and Television Producers.^[7] In 1966, it also merged with the Society of Independent Producers (formed in 1964).^[8] In September 1975, Universal quit the Association during craft negotiations and United Artists and Walt Disney Productions also notified the Association of their intention to withdraw the following month.^[9] Paramount and Universal formed a new organization, the Alliance. In 1982, the Alliance and the AMPTP merged to form the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers.^[7]

 

Now 1975 is in fact ancient history, really, in many ways.  But in other ways it isn't.

 

More to the point, this is a trade association, not a blood pact.

 

Now would a member group have to quit the AMPTP to make a side deal? Given the precedence I just saw?  Probably!  Is there tremendous disincentive to actually quit the AMPTP?  I would say so, to put it mildly.  But until I actually see some stories in the press about penalties or how there are actual honest to goodness structural impediments in place, I will presume that it is in fact naked self-interest/prisoner's dilemma/soft power dynamics/no one wants to be the first to jump/no one actually is hurting enough to really contemplate it/the strikes haven't gone on long enough/pick another of a hundred reasons that is why the AMPTP is still bound together.

Edited September 9, 2023 by Porthos

[21C]

1 hour ago, Porthos said:

 

But a similar sort of process would also have applied to the ATA and their negotiations with the WGA.

 

Why is it that the WGA was able to split the ATA but wouldn't be able to do so to the AMPTP (aside, from you know, differing power dynamics, social structures, incentives, and all that jazz)?

 

...

 

You know what?  Did a little more research on this.

 

From the ALWAYS RELIABLE/NEVER INCORRECT Wikipedia:

 

 

Now 1975 is in fact ancient history, really, in many ways.  But in other ways it isn't.

 

More to the point, this is a trade association, not a blood pact.

 

Now would a member group have to quit the AMPTP to make a side deal? Given the precedence I just saw?  Probably!  Is there tremendous disincentive to actually quit the AMPTP?  I would say so, to put it mildly.  But until I actually see some stories in the press about penalties or how there are actual honest to goodness structural impediments in place, I will presume that it is in fact naked self-interest/prisoner's dilemma/soft power dynamics/no one wants to be the first to jump/no one actually is hurting enough to really contemplate it/the strikes haven't gone on long enough/pick another of a hundred reasons that is why the AMPTP is still bound together.

And I mean, even if there is no written contract (which would be still insane to me if there isn't one) the other companies might still have some legal grounds to sue on since they had agreed to negotiate as a collective. Verbal contract is still a contract; and by being part of the AMPTP they imply they committed to negotiate together. If that's broken that's still some grounds to sue on. 

Edited September 9, 2023 by 21C

[MovieMan89]

I honestly don’t really get why Netflix would be so stubborn as all the reports have suggested when they’re sitting on streaming juggernauts like the next seasons of ST, Wednesday and One Piece that can’t happen until this gets resolved. Do they hate money?