8/12-8/15 Weekdays Thread | It Ends With Us $6.2m Monday

[Brainbug]

8 hours ago, MrFanaticGuy34 said:

Ouch! Such severely low rankings for poor JW: Dominion in almost every corner. 😔🤕

Brainbug won’t be happy about this.

@Brainbug

 

7 hours ago, Nero said:

Deep down inside he is also unhappy though 😭😣

 

I always said (and still do) that Dominion is a bad movie that i enjoy (most of it). Its undoubtely bad though.

[titanic2187]

10 minutes ago, vale9001 said:

 

Not a book adaption but also anyone but you as female driven movie.

 

In general seems to me a lot of movies are be coming more leggy. I'm starting to think the promotion on traditional media doesn't reach very young people anymore and Tik Tok makes the job, so people discover some movies when they are out and they became viral there.

 

See inside out 2. I mean It's a sequel of a very big first movie. A 4x plus multiplier is incredibile after a such big opening for a sequel.

 

Honestly before the movie i didn't see that much buzz. Once It comes out and only after it cames out Tik Tok exploded.

 

 

 

I agree the movie appear leggier but let's not forget the current marketplace simply isn't as crowded as pre-Covid. We are running 8.5bn-9bn aggregate BO this year, that is almost 25% lower than 3 years average before Covid. And we aren't even talking about admission. Number of movies release also a quarter less.  If this free up headroom doesn't benefit any holdovers, then the BO is truly dammed. Can you imagine with better legs but movie still can't catch up pre-pandemic number? 

[ZattMurdock]

2 minutes ago, titanic2187 said:

 

I agree the movie appear leggier but let's not forget the current marketplace simply isn't as crowded as pre-Covid. We are running 8.5bn-9bn aggregate BO this year, that is almost 25% lower than 3 years average before Covid. And we aren't even talking about admission. Number of movies release also a quarter less.  If this free up headroom doesn't benefit any holdovers, then the BO is truly dammed. Can you imagine with better legs but movie still can't catch up pre-pandemic number? 

‘There is no going back. The pandemic happened, it’s very much still a recovering market. What It Ends With Us tells me is that the female market is underserved and even that is diminutive. Not all women will be interested in book adaptations like It Ends With Us, just like not everyone will be interested in the MCU, horror, etc.

[vale9001]

3 minutes ago, titanic2187 said:

 

I agree the movie appear leggier but let's not forget the current marketplace simply isn't as crowded as pre-Covid. We are running 8.5bn-9bn aggregate BO this year, that is almost 25% lower than 3 years average before Covid. And we aren't even talking about admission. Number of movies release also a quarter less.  If this free up headroom doesn't benefit any holdovers, then the BO is truly dammed. Can you imagine with better legs but movie still can't catch up pre-pandemic number? 

 

There are movies that became events and make great numbers...average dramas still fails to make pre COVID numbers (but the crisis started even before COVID).

 

Maybe It's part of the same problems. Studios are not able anymore to involve some people so if a movie explode on social media It becames big big and everyone wants to see It for being part of the thing and doing their post about It. 

 

If a movie doesn't reach that there are people don't even hear about most movies. 

 

 

[titanic2187]

2 minutes ago, vale9001 said:

 

There are movies that became events and make great numbers...average dramas still fails to make pre COVID numbers (but the crisis started even before COVID).

 

Maybe It's part of the same problems. Studios are not able anymore to involve some people so if a movie explode on social media It becames big big and everyone wants to see It for being part of the thing and doing their post about It. 

 

If a movie doesn't reach that there are people don't even hear about most movies. 

 

 

Most like economy in general post-Covid, everything is experiencing K-recovery. The weaker got weaker, and the stronger got stronger. The richer got richer, the poorer got poorer. That is the systematic structural problem that happened to every corner of the society, including BO. Whichever movie that managed to create FOMO effect, they grab everything on the plate, making a mega OW like Barbie, IO2, DP3 or Mario, legging out like a typical 20m opener. 

[ZattMurdock]

2 minutes ago, titanic2187 said:

Most like economy in general post-Covid, everything is experiencing K-recovery. The weaker got weaker, and the stronger got stronger. The richer got richer, the poorer got poorer. That is the systematic structural problem that happened to every corner of the society, including BO. Whichever movie that managed to create FOMO effect, they grab everything on the plate, making a mega OW like Barbie, IO2, DP3 or Mario, legging out like a typical 20m opener. 

I’d include A2 and NWH on that, but other than that it’s the gist of it. And like Tim Blake Nelson said recently during SDCC, movie theaters need these films to keep the cinema experience alive. It’s not like sequels to major franchises are a brand new thing to the box office either. 
 

Hell, I will do one better, the complaints are cyclical as well.

[AnthonyJPHer]

Well, Avengers: Endgame was extremely front-loaded. It collapsed after its third weekend domestically. If it had Spider-Man: No Way Home legs, it would have made 1.1b domestic. 
 

In terms of legs, and not just domestic, Inside Out 2 is insane. Better legs than the original with a bigger opening is almost unheard of. It’s having Shrek 2 type legs with a better opening. It’s going to outgross Jurassic World even though that film opened nearly 55m more than Inside Out 2 did domestically. It’s going to almost match Lion Kings international total even though that film was an international monster and Jurassic Worlds international total. 
 

After its third weekend, Inside Out 2 was at 1.015B WW. By the end of its run, if it legs out better than Jurassic World and The Lion King (2019), it’ll hit 1.715b, which would be a mind boggling 700m made after its third weekend WW. To put that into perspective, it’ll gross as much as Dune: Part Two did in its entire WW run!
 

Frozen only made 200m, Frozen II only made 450m after hitting a billion, Barbie only made 415m after its third weekend, and both Jurassic World and The Lion King made 650m after they hit the 1b mark. The only films that surpass it in total post third weekend gross are Spider-Man: No Way Home, Star Wars: The Force Awakens, Avengers: Infinity War, Titanic, Avatar: The Way of Water, Avengers: Endgame and Avatar. 

[ZattMurdock]

6 minutes ago, AnthonyJPHer said:

Well, Avengers: Endgame was extremely front-loaded. It collapsed after its third weekend domestically. If it had Spider-Man: No Way Home legs, it would have made 1.1b domestic. 
 

In terms of legs, and not just domestic, Inside Out 2 is insane. Better legs than the original with a bigger opening is almost unheard of. It’s having Shrek 2 type legs with a better opening. It’s going to outgross Jurassic World even though that film opened nearly 55m more than Inside Out 2 did domestically. It’s going to almost match Lion Kings international total even though that film was an international monster and Jurassic Worlds international total. 
 

After its third weekend, Inside Out 2 was at 1.015B WW. By the end of its run, if it legs out better than Jurassic World and The Lion King (2019), it’ll hit 1.715b, which would be a mind boggling 700m made after its third weekend WW. To put that into perspective, it’ll gross as much as Dune: Part Two did in its entire WW run!
 

Frozen only made 200m, Frozen II only made 450m after hitting a billion, Barbie only made 415m after its third weekend, and both Jurassic World and The Lion King made 650m after they hit the 1b mark. The only films that surpass it in total post third weekend gross are Spider-Man: No Way Home, Star Wars: The Force Awakens, Avengers: Infinity War, Titanic, Avatar: The Way of Water, Avengers: Endgame and Avatar. 

I disagree with Avengers: Endgame being extremely frontloaded. This comes from not understanding or ignoring that Spider-Man: No Way Home and that film had very different release dates. I’m certain that Avengers just like Star Wars and Avatar would blow up during the holiday season, but I still maintain that the Avengers should dominate and keep the NA’s film of the Summer tradition. It suits that franchise very well.

 

IO2’s legs are indeed insane, but that’s an all ages Pixar phenomenon as much as a box office phenomenon, not really the same as MCU, Star Wars or Avatar films for that matter.

[vale9001]

15 minutes ago, AnthonyJPHer said:

Well, Avengers: Endgame was extremely front-loaded. It collapsed after its third weekend domestically. If it had Spider-Man: No Way Home legs, it would have made 1.1b domestic. 
 

In terms of legs, and not just domestic, Inside Out 2 is insane. Better legs than the original with a bigger opening is almost unheard of. It’s having Shrek 2 type legs with a better opening. It’s going to outgross Jurassic World even though that film opened nearly 55m more than Inside Out 2 did domestically. It’s going to almost match Lion Kings international total even though that film was an international monster and Jurassic Worlds international total. 
 

 

 

.

 

yes inside out 2 legs are incredible cause usually Pixar sequels don't increase that much. I mean Nemo made 339M, the sequel 486M. Probably with inflation (the sequel came 14 years later than the first) the tickets sold are not that much more as it seems from the money made). Toy story made 191M and the sequel 245M. Monster University 268M against 255 of the first (definitely less tickets sold when you see inflation). Cars 2 even did worse than Cars.

 

The only one had a similar increase or even better is The incredibles going from 261M for the first movie to 608M for the sequel. 

Edited August 14 by vale9001

[JimmyB]

Is everything more leggy or is it just the big 100m+ openers that are more leggy.

I tried to compare some like movies to pre covid and I dont know if legs are much different....Time of release, size of opening weekend etc....can make comps hard but Im not seeing a huge difference.

 

Transformers The Last Knight - 2.91X OW.

Transformers The Rise of the Beasts - 2.58X OW.

 

Bad Boys For Life - 3.27x opening weekend.

Bad Boys Ride or Die - 3.42x OW.

 

Ghostbusters 2016 - 2.79x OW.

Ghostbusters Frozen Empire - 2.52X OW.

 

War of the Planet of Apes - 2.61x OW.

Kingdom - 2.93x OW.

 

John Wick Chapter 3 - 3.01X OW.

John Wick Chapter 4 - 2.54X OW.

 

Aladdin - 3.89X OW.

The Little Mermaid - 3.12 OW.

 

Guardians 2 - 2.66X OW.

Guardians 3 - 3.03X Ow.

 

Fast 8 - 2,29x OW.

Fast X - 2.18X OW.

 

 

Conjuring - 3.28X OW.

Insidious - 4.07X OW.

Don't Breathe - 3.38X OW.

 

Smile - 4.69X OW.

Black Phone - 3.81X OW.

Longlegs - 3.38X OW.

 

[Eric the Marxist]

1 hour ago, ZattMurdock said:

The narrative that superhero films are somehow less or more leggier / frontloaded  than they ever were just like superhero fatigue being a thing is one of the worst BOT and film twitter takes, which are easily disproven time and time again despite some trying to make fetch happen.

But...they are more frontloaded. That is just me stating facts.

 

If you want a comparison, these were the legs for superhero movies releasing in 2017-2019. I'm excluding Far From Home, as that opened on a weekday.

Quote

Guardians of the Galaxy 2	2.66
Thor Ragnarok	2.57
Spider-Man Homecoming	2.86
Wonder Woman	4
Justice League	2.44
Logan	2.56
Avengers Infinity War	2.63
Black Panther	3.46
Deadpool 2	2.54
Ant-Man and the Wasp	2.86
Aquaman	4.94
Spider-Man Into the Spider-Verse	5.38
Avengers Endgame	2.4
Captain Marvel	2.78
Joker	3.49
X-Men Dark Phoenix	2.01
Teen Titans Go!	2.86
Average	3.084705882

 

And now here's the legs for superhero movies from 2021-2023. Though some stuff like Black Widow and The Suicide Squad were excluded due to day-and-date streaming stuff.

Quote

Doctor Strange 2	2.19
Black Panther 2	2.5
Thor 4	2.38
The Batman	2.76
Black Adam	2.51
Morbius	1.89
DC League of Super Pets	4.07
Spider-Man Across the Spider-Verse	3.16
Guardians of the Galaxy 3	3.03
Ant-Man 3	2.02
The Flash	1.96
The Marvels	1.83
Shazam 2	1.91
Blue Beetle	2.9
Aquaman 2	4.5
Average	2.640666667

 

So yeah. This isn't a myth. This isn't a hot take from those pesky Film Twitter and BOT users who are out to get Marvel. I'm stating facts. Part of the reason granted is because of COVID stuff and bad reception from certain movies. In The Batman's case, it's because it was on HBO Max for free just 45 days later. But even if a few movies did get better reviews or less restrictions on their release, I don't think it would change the average that drastically. Getting less than 2 times your opening was unheard of for the genre apart from Batman v Superman. But we just got four instances over the past two years. That means something.

 

Not everything negative about superhero movies is some sort of attack against them, and I really wish you would not do such implications again.

[JimmyB]

27 minutes ago, titanic2187 said:

Most like economy in general post-Covid, everything is experiencing K-recovery. The weaker got weaker, and the stronger got stronger. The richer got richer, the poorer got poorer. That is the systematic structural problem that happened to every corner of the society, including BO. Whichever movie that managed to create FOMO effect, they grab everything on the plate, making a mega OW like Barbie, IO2, DP3 or Mario, legging out like a typical 20m opener. 

 

Starting in June movies are either big opening hits or flops domestically .  Only Longlegs is in that middle. 

 

Bad Boys, IO2, A Quiet Place, DM4, Twisters, D&W, It Ends with Us and maybe Aliens....all opening to 50m+

 

All other movies The Watchers, Bikeriders, Horizon, Maxxxine, Fly Me to the Moon, Trap, Harold and Purple Crayon, Borderlands....not one of these movies will gross over 40m domestic.

[vale9001]

marvel is a series...it's pretty normal at some point you don't find people are interested to the movies cause they didn't watch the ones before. At the same time being a series makes every chapter awaited from a huge fanbase...positive and negative aspect at the same time. 

 

as it's normal spider man has better legs than End Game. When i saw it i understood and enjoed the plot while i didn't understand a f..about End game. If the fact the saga is "serial" is true well that's true for End Game especially. I didn't watch all the marvel movies before and forgotabout most of them so at some point i was kinda confused. It's not a movie can be really enjojed by everyone, so at some point the audience you can find has an end line. 

[titanic2187]

5 minutes ago, JimmyB said:

 

Starting in June movies are either big opening hits or flops domestically .  Only Longlegs is in that middle. 

 

Bad Boys, IO2, A Quiet Place, DM4, Twisters, D&W, It Ends with Us and maybe Aliens....all opening to 50m+

 

All other movies The Watchers, Bikeriders, Horizon, Maxxxine, Fly Me to the Moon, Trap, Harold and Purple Crayon, Borderlands....not one of these movies will gross over 40m domestic.

June this year was extremely top heavy. June 2019's biggest movie was Toy Story 4 with 240m in June alone but June that year ($1.15bn) still outgross June in 2024 ($970m) although IO2 already made 470m, 200m more than TS4 for June. No doubt theater needs big movie to thrive, but how is this healthy sign? It is like Trump saying the economy is running great just because of the stock markets and crypto are doing great. 

[Krissykins]

Wonder Woman’s 4x multiplier after a $100m+ opening. Always epic. 

[JustLurking]

Ava2

Barbie

Maverick

 

IO2

 

 

Mario

NWH

[ZattMurdock]

44 minutes ago, Eric Ripley said:

But...they are more frontloaded. That is just me stating facts.

 

If you want a comparison, these were the legs for superhero movies releasing in 2017-2019. I'm excluding Far From Home, as that opened on a weekday.

 

And now here's the legs for superhero movies from 2021-2023. Though some stuff like Black Widow and The Suicide Squad were excluded due to day-and-date streaming stuff.

 

So yeah. This isn't a myth. This isn't a hot take from those pesky Film Twitter and BOT users who are out to get Marvel. I'm stating facts. Part of the reason granted is because of COVID stuff and bad reception from certain movies. In The Batman's case, it's because it was on HBO Max for free just 45 days later. But even if a few movies did get better reviews or less restrictions on their release, I don't think it would change the average that drastically. Getting less than 2 times your opening was unheard of for the genre apart from Batman v Superman. But we just got four instances over the past two years. That means something.

 

Not everything negative about superhero movies is some sort of attack against them, and I really wish you would not do such implications again.

I find the idea of using Shang-Chi and Eternals numbers flawed because they were released still during the heights of the pandemic, and when I say that superhero fatigue is a myth - and a lot of others - it isn’t to target you or anyone in specific, it’s about the fallacy that the MCU didn’t fluctuate before. Bad films will behave like bad films, and I find it rich that you went out of your way to include DC Super Pets but didn’t include Teen Titans Go from 2018, which would raise the 2017-2019 average even further, but you would be hard pressed finding anyone seeing those as part of the superhero genre or culprits of some sort of superhero fatigue.
 

My point isn’t that it’s obvious that you have your own bias and I have mine, but that the MCU has fluctuated long before that and seeing Phase 4 and 5 box office multipliers as the smoking gun that proves that superhero fatigue is flawed at best. Bad films - or let’s put it like films that didn’t connect with the audiences - won’t perform well at the box office, that’s very much a given. 
 

Phase 4 and 5 are much more comparable to Phase 1 and 2 of the MCU, because it’s about building momentum and that obviously was affected by COVID. Even so, even with COVID being a major thing that affected box office across all films, No Way Home and now Deadpool & Wolverine are easily one of the biggest box office successes since after the pandemic. Audiences will always have ‘bad films fatigue’ - or if it’s less offensive, films that they don’t connect fatigue - but I don’t think that cluttering these films together actually tell the story.

 

I think that comparing 2017-2019 is to 2021-2024 is a silly proposition, but using your own numbers here for MCU entries alone, you get an average multiplier of 3.17 from the MCU films you listed from 2017-2019 and 2.795  from the MCU films you listed from 2021-2024, and that’s without counting Deadpool & Wolverine which will obviously raise those numbers. The MCU will always come in waves, hopefully the DCU under James Gunn will get its shit together but superhero fatigue being called a thing when the whole market got depressed after the pandemic is in my opinion short sighted at best.

 

The MCU - and the superhero genre - should never be expected to increase at an exponential scale. That’s the mistake I see often and I do think that ironically, Mendelson and Empire takes on this have become ironically more reasonable around here. 

Edited August 14 by ZattMurdock

[HummingLemon496]

7 minutes ago, JustLurking said:

Ava2

Barbie

Maverick

 

IO2

 

 

Mario

NWH

I'm just wondering, if you were to put Endgame on this list, where would it go?

[Eric the Marxist]

6 minutes ago, ZattMurdock said:

and I find it rich that you went out of your way to include DC Super Pets but didn’t include Teen Titans Go from 2018

Ah! I knew I forgot something. So now we add in Teen Titans Go, we go from 3.1x for that period down to...3.08x. Cool. I also decided to remove the 2021 stuff, since that's a valid point there. And now we go from 2.65x to...2.64x. Neat!

[XXRDJisDoctorDoom]

Post-COVID billion dollar films, based solely on how I felt when I left the theater that night....

 

Spider-Man: NWH - 9/10
Top Gun: Maverick - 8.5/10

Deadpool & Wolverine - 8/10

Avatar: The Way of Water - 7/10

Inside Out 2 - 7/10

Barbie - 6.5/10

Super Mario Bros - 5/10

Jurassic World: Dominion - 3/10