The Official TASM Weekly Thread (6 Day EST-140m) (Warning: Whiten Out Spoilers/Spoiler Tags)

[Adm56]

I'm just glad that TASM wasn't as revolting as Prometheus was. I didn't love Spidey, but at least I didn't have the urge to immediately vomit when the house lights came back up.

[John Marston]

Also the meteorite could have been introduced by having John Jameson bringing it back from space instead

[MovieMan89]

He probably would have changed Maroni to Penguin (likely never calling him Penguin, just his normal name Oswald Cobblepot) and obviously neutered the silly aspects of the character. Considering how Nolan's universe is a separate realm from the comics and uses comic arcs purely as an inspirational touchstone, a change like that wouldn't have hurt the film at all (especially since we'd have gotten a more conclusive resolution to that character).

And how pray tell would the addition of another villain have fit in neatly and coherently with TDK's plot without causing some MAJOR screwups? It would have of course. You're clearly in deep Noloonie denial if you think otherwise. Edited July 7, 2012 by MovieMan89

[ddddeeee]

Also the meteorite could have been introduced by having John Jameson bringing it back from space instead

The movie would have exploded from being too bloated by that point.

[kayumanggi]

True.

[druv10]

Not to mention the legions of fans who would feel like he abandon them and turned his back on them if he just suddenly quit the project. Obviously a lot of those said fans felt really disappointed anyways when they saw the movie, but the whole thing was just a lose lose situation there. There wasn't gonna be a good outcome.

I agree it was a lose-lose situation for him but I felt like he mailed it in for SM3 after studio's interference which I felt was worse. He should've asked for help with Venom since he had absolutely no idea how the character clicked. Raimi deserves blame for the debacle SM3 was. He changed uncle Ben's killer, some of the campiness and cheese felt crazy awkward including Peter dancing, Harry's amnesia, and I could go on with things I hated about SM3 including absolute neutering of Venom. SM3 was an absolute train wreck of epic proportion.

[filmscholar]

I think it's way to early to introduce Venom or Carnaige. They should save them and the sinister 6 for the 3rd and final film. I agree with people saying Electro. The only thing I feel is Goblin, Doc Oc and Sandman should not be in this series. I don't mind Venom coming back cause they messed him up badly in SM3.

[ddddeeee]

He might need a new costume though.

[MovieMan89]

I agree it was a lose-lose situation for him but I felt like he mailed it in for SM3 after studio's interference which I felt was worse. He should've asked for help with Venom since he had absolutely no idea how the character clicked. Raimi deserves blame for the debacle SM3 was. He changed uncle Ben's killer, some of the campiness and cheese felt crazy awkward including Peter dancing, Harry's amnesia, and I could go on with things I hated about SM3 including absolute neutering of Venom. SM3 was an absolute train wreck of epic proportion.

At least 90% of the train wreck can be tracked back to Sony's interventions as ddddeeee already pointed out. It branched into all kinds of problems for the film. You can only throw so many wrenches into something before everything gets thrown off.

[Dementeleus]

Drew McWeeny dissects the film with a second viewing (spoilers, obviously):http://www.hitfix.co...the-frustration

Edited July 7, 2012 by Telemachos

[4815162342]

And how pray tell would the addition of another villain have fit in neatly and coherently with TDK's plot without causing some MAJOR screwups? It would have of course. You're clearly in deep Noloonie denial if you think otherwise.

Addition? Nolan would have replaced Maroni with Cobblepot, thereby keeping the villain count in the film equal. How does that substitution affect the plot of TDK aside from putting a more known Batman villain into the small supporting villain role Maroni filled? Only difference is that there might be an extra 5 minutes or so in the film to give Cobblepot some more character, some more interaction with Dent and Joker, and then a clearer resolution than the ambiguous car flip.You laid down a challenge for anyone to give a response to, I gave a measured, reasonable explanation, and I get called a Noloonie in denial? L-fucking-OL Edited July 7, 2012 by 4815162342

[MovieMan89]

Addition? Nolan would have replaced Maroni with Cobblepot, thereby keeping the villain count in the film equal. How does that substitution affect the plot of TDK aside from putting a more known Batman villain into the small supporting villain role Maroni filled?

You laid down a challenge for anyone to give a response to, I gave a measured, reasonable explanation, and I get called a Noloonie in denial? L-fucking-OL

So wait you were suggesting Nolan swap out a villain as insignificant and low profile as Maroni with such a high status and beloved one as Penguin? Oh that's just begging for problems and fan backlash. Not to mention if WB had wanted Penguin in the film in the same way Sony wanted Venom in SM3 it would have certainly been in a more involved role than that. So nice try, but no.

[ddddeeee]

Addition? Nolan would have replaced Maroni with Cobblepot, thereby keeping the villain count in the film equal. How does that substitution affect the plot of TDK aside from putting a more known Batman villain into the small supporting villain role Maroni filled? Only difference is that there might be an extra 5 minutes or so in the film to give Cobblepot some more character, some more interaction with Dent and Joker, and then a clearer resolution than the ambiguous car flip.You laid down a challenge for anyone to give a response to, I gave a measured, reasonable explanation, and I get called a Noloonie in denial? L-fucking-OL

I think you took his request far too literally. The suggestion was that Nolan be faced with adding a character that would ultimately change the movie significantly. Raimi wasn't told to put Venom in for four minutes.

[John Marston]

Raimi should have changed his story to add the elements of that he was "Forced" into. Sure he might have had to change a lot of things he wanted, but it is either that or quit. Come on he is not a child, he can't just totally half ass the movie just because he had to add stuff he didn't want.

Edited July 7, 2012 by John Marston

[ddddeeee]

the simple point is, Raimi should have changed his story to add the elements of that he was "Forced" into. Sure he might have had to change a lot of things he wanted, but it is either that or quit. Come on he is not a child, he can't just totally half ass the movie just because he had to add stuff he didn't want.

You need to stop with this half assed crap. Raimi worked on the movie for three years, he didn't half ass anything. The movie may not have worked but that's not from a lack of effort.

[TLK]

Directors like Raimi (after SM2) and Nolan only see studio interference when the studios are convinced that the movie is going to be a disaster. I am pretty sure that Nolan didn't see any interference from WB for TDKR.

[MovieMan89]

Directors like Raimi (after SM2) and Nolan only see studio interference when the studios are convinced that the movie is going to be a disaster. I am pretty sure that Nolan didn't see any interference from WB for TDKR.

Raimi saw interference with SM3 from day 1. And SM2 was far from a disaster so....

[druv10]

At least 90% of the train wreck can be tracked back to Sony's interventions as ddddeeee already pointed out. It branched into all kinds of problems for the film. You can only throw so many wrenches into something before everything gets thrown off.

Why the hell did he change Uncle Ben's killer? Venom had absolutely nothing to do with it.

[ddddeeee]

From what I understand the original draft for SM3 had Peter becoming cocky without the contrived plot device of the symbiote. Arad saw this as the perfect opportunity for the symbiote and everything went to hell after that.

[ddddeeee]

Why the hell did he change Uncle Ben's killer? Venom had absolutely nothing to do with it.

I don't think anyone is defending that. It's a stupid idea that could have been overlooked had the movie been good enough, like Batman 89 changing the Wayne murders.