Pacific Rim (2013)

[Jessie]

Transformers had no big stars as well (LeBeouf an Fox were nothing back then to GA) and lot of people were skeptical about adapting Hasbro toys to the big screen. "Is Hollywood that desperate?" was the question in the air. Bay was trying to recover after The Island flop. Now everybody is claiming Transformers was always bound to be a smash hit afterwards. No, it wasn't.

 

The next week after Transformers release, there was a little movie called Harry Potter and The Order of the Phoenix. The week before Die Hard 4. The month before Spiderman 3, POTC3. (Don't even counting Ratatouille and Shrek the 3rd that trusted family audience.

 

Transformers had as much competition from "summer big movies" as PR weeks before release and yet managed to get better legs and better WOM than PR.

 

Good WOM spread among GA (TF) > Good WOM not spread among GA (PR)

 

The fact that a wide portion of the few people that saw PR in theaters found it good doesn't mean it had a better reception than TF among GA. It just means that this panel of people (a minority compared to those that saw TF in theaters) found it good since the good WOM was not spread among GA.(That's what BO legs are measuring).

 

 

Yeah people were predicting higher numbers for Pacific Rim 1 year out than they were for Transformers. It was only when that first teaser was released people began predicting numbers between 100-200m.

[Gopher]

The subforum is called 'Review That Movie!', not 'Assess the Commercial Success of That Movie and Pass It Off as a Marker For Quality'.

[John Marston]

The subforum is called 'Review That Movie!', not 'Assess the Commercial Success of That Movie and Pass It Off as a Marker For Quality'.

Except people are posting their opinions as fact. There is nothing that shows the vast majority of people preferred PR to Bay's movies. Yet people are making that claim

[Deep Wang]

Except people are posting their opinions as fact. There is nothing that shows the vast majority of people preferred PR to Bay's movies. Yet people are making that claim

The point a few of us are trying to get across, is that this is a thread for review and discussing the movie. You haven't seen it yet, so what brought you in here if not to look for an argument?

[John Marston]

The point a few of us are trying to get across, is that this is a thread for review and discussing the movie. You haven't seen it yet, so what brought you in here if not to look for an argument?

The statement come from an argument two already started

[Deep Wang]

The statement come from an argument two already started

Ok, let me ask this question one more time since you haven't answered it yet. This is the Review thread. You have not seen this movie, what can you possibly bring to this thread? Why are you here? Do you go into all the other review threads without having seen that movie? I ask because I don't go into them unless I have see them.

[John Marston]

Ok, let me ask this question one more time since you haven't answered it yet. This is the Review thread. You have not seen this movie, what can you possibly bring to this thread? Why are you here? Do you go into all the other review threads without having seen that movie? I ask because I don't go into them unless I have see them.

Posting the facts against people posting opinions that they claim as fact ( in this case PR was extremely well received and received better than TF). I'm not the only one saying this. See dasheendar44 and Jessie's posts

[Ozymandias]

Except people are posting their opinions as fact. There is nothing that shows the vast majority of people preferred PR to Bay's movies. Yet people are making that claim

 

I really can't believe you're arguing that what audiences think of a film and its overall quality is relative to its exposure while simultaneously harping on people about "facts". 

[Ezen Baklattan]

John Marston: Because somewhere in the universe, someone is saying that Pacific Rim was successful.It was a really fun and passionate summer action flick. That's all that matters to me.

[Jessie]

Ok, let me ask this question one more time since you haven't answered it yet. This is the Review thread. You have not seen this movie, what can you possibly bring to this thread? Why are you here? Do you go into all the other review threads without having seen that movie? I ask because I don't go into them unless I have see them.

This is a movie forum, people can go into any thread they want to. If I haven't seen a movie, ill still go into the review thread just to see what others thought of it, sometimes the posts persuade me to try certain movies out and if I was to come across a debate that can be argued regardless of whether I've seen the movie, there shouldn't be anything to stop me expressing my opinion.It's like saying you shouldn't search a film on Rotten Tomatoes you haven't seen. Edited November 1, 2013 by Jessie

[rukaio101]

Transformers had no big stars as well (LeBeouf an Fox were nothing back then to GA) and lot of people were skeptical about adapting Hasbro toys to the big screen. "Is Hollywood that desperate?" was the question in the air. Bay was trying to recover after The Island flop. Now everybody is claiming Transformers was always bound to be a smash hit afterwards. No, it wasn't.

 

The next week after Transformers release, there was a little movie called Harry Potter and The Order of the Phoenix. The week before Die Hard 4. The month before Spiderman 3, POTC3. (Don't even counting Ratatouille and Shrek the 3rd that trusted family audience.

 

Transformers had as much competition from "summer big movies" as PR weeks before release and yet managed to get better legs and better WOM than PR.

 

Good WOM spread among GA (TF) > Good WOM not spread among GA (PR)

 

The fact that a wide portion of the few people that saw PR in theaters found it good doesn't mean it had a better reception than TF among GA. It just means that this panel of people (a minority compared to those that saw TF in theaters) found it good since the good WOM was not spread among GA.(That's what BO legs are measuring).

Pacific Rim was in a much worse position than Transformers as it was quite clear that, by July, people were getting sick of action blockbusters. In the months before you had IM3, WWZ, F&F6, MoS, STID and many other films which appealed to the same crowd as PR was trying to. By the time July rolled around, those crowds had obviously grown sick of those films as shown by the large number of action flops/disappointments around that time (White House Down, Lone Ranger, Red 2, RIPD). The only action film to do reasonably well that month was the Wolverine and that had a built in fanbase, a big name star and still performed under expectations. 

 

Now, I'm not pretending Transformers didn't have some competition as well, or that it didn't have audience appealing qualities that kept bringing people back. I'm arguing against the idea that because Transformers did better at the box office, therefore GA's must have thought it was the superior film.

 

 

Except people are posting their opinions as fact. There is nothing that shows the vast majority of people preferred PR to Bay's movies. Yet people are making that claim

Yet you seemed to have absolutely no issue with Jessie's claim that 'most people preferred Transformers' which was what I was arguing against in the first place.

 

You don't like people posting their opinions as fact.... unless it's an opinion you agree with?

[Deep Wang]

This is a movie forum, people can go into any thread they want to. If I haven't seen a movie, ill still go into the review thread just to see what others thought of it, sometimes the posts persuade me to try certain movies out and if I was to come across a debate that can be argued regardless of whether I've seen the movie, there shouldn't be anything to stop me expressing my opinion.It's like saying you shouldn't search a film on Rotten Tomatoes you haven't seen.

Well, I was asking John Maston. He still didn't answer my question either. I just mean that this is the one thread were spoilers are allowed and encouraged to be able to discuss the movie. If you don't care about spoilers then that's your prerogative. It just seems pointless to come into a thread reserved for in depth discussions about the movie if you can't actually discuss the movie. I don't go into the Twilight reviews and start talking about stuff I have no business talking about. You can easily go to RT at any time wether you have seen the movie or not, that's not really a fair comparison.

[Dementeleus]

Admit it, guys, you just want this thread to pass TDKR's, right?

[Sam]

At the rate things are going, I think it could get there. But the lack of gifs and memes will be its big disadvantage.

[John Marston]

Pacific Rim was in a much worse position than Transformers as it was quite clear that, by July, people were getting sick of action blockbusters. In the months before you had IM3, WWZ, F&F6, MoS, STID and many other films which appealed to the same crowd as PR was trying to. By the time July rolled around, those crowds had obviously grown sick of those films as shown by the large number of action flops/disappointments around that time (White House Down, Lone Ranger, Red 2, RIPD). The only action film to do reasonably well that month was the Wolverine and that had a built in fanbase, a big name star and still performed under expectations. Now, I'm not pretending Transformers didn't have some competition as well, or that it didn't have audience appealing qualities that kept bringing people back. I'm arguing against the idea that because Transformers did better at the box office, therefore GA's must have thought it was the superior film.Yet you seemed to have absolutely no issue with Jessie's claim that 'most people preferred Transformers' which was what I was arguing against in the first place.You don't like people posting their opinions as fact.... unless it's an opinion you agree with?

Ah yes because Jessie 's claim is trueSaying "I liked PR more than Transformers" is fineSaying. "The general moviegoing public preferred PR over TF " is simply an inaccurate statement

[dashrendar44]

Ah yes because Jessie 's claim is trueSaying "I liked PR more than Transformers" is fineSaying. "The general moviegoing public preferred PR over TF " is simply an inaccurate statement

 

Yeah, the accurate statement would be "those that saw PR preferred it to TF", that's totally different to "GA preferred PR over TF". How could GA prefer it if they didn't bother to show up in drove like TF in the first place for whatever reason as BO results showed.

Edited November 1, 2013 by dashrendar44

[rukaio101]

Ah yes because Jessie 's claim is trueSaying "I liked PR more than Transformers" is fineSaying. "The general moviegoing public preferred PR over TF " is simply an inaccurate statement

Well, I apologise for not making it incredibly clear that I meant members of the general public who had seen both films. Obviously if we're including people who saw Transformers but didn't see Pacific Rim, then yes the general audience would've enjoyed Transformers more. However, I was kind of expecting you to have some level of common sense to see that obviously wasn't what I (or Jessie in his original post) meant. I shall try not to underestimate your inability to not take things overly literally next time.

[John Marston]

Even then we don't know for sure . It is just your assumption. Again the weak legs for PR show that audiences did not care too much for it

[DAR]

Visually it looked great and the fights were kind of cool. But I thought the story and acting were pretty subpar. C

[Jessie]

Even then we don't know for sure . It is just your assumption. Again the weak legs for PR show that audiences did not care too much for it

Nah I think it's safe to say People simply preferred Transformers to Pacific Rim. People were raving about the movie when it was out, it undeniably had great WOM and the big increase for its it's very badly reviewed sequel shows this. I don't here anyone raving about Pacific Rim, only on forums and I certainly don't here much demand for a sequel.Transformers was the preferred film, it's common sense.