grey ghost Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Man, if you told someone around here 2 months ago that both PR and TLR would miss 100 m you would've been laughed off the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey Freak Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 i don't think RT is a gr8 indicator at all. e.g. man of steel 56% RT rotten, but got 300mil nearly domestic PR 71% fresh but struggle to reach 100mil.. its not RT, or cinemascore but the following question. 1. will this movie appeal to the GA? is it a franchise, a brand of some sort(e.g. pixar, dreamworks), does it have star power? The comment was specifically about the relationship between RT and a movie's legs, and MoS legs were craptastic considering that huge OW. Well, I'd challenge that. I don't think that is entirely true. I don't have the time to go through it thoroughly but there are a litany of films disliked by critics that have excellent legs. Actually no. There are incredibly few films (if any at all) with a 3 or more multiplier which have not been exactly hot among the critics. Whereas many movies get A, A+ or A- on CS and then prove to have meh to laughable legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grey ghost Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Apart from Downey who has now acquired an international appeal, none of those you have mentioned have more pull than Pitt, Jolie, Smith, Cruise and Depp to rise an average project that would bomb otherswise on the overseas market based on their sole superstar status...Pirates 4 and The Tourist are one of the main examples that comes to mind. Denzel movies consistently do less abroad and most of his $100 million action movies don't even reach $200 million worldwide unlike Jolie's own action movies. When it comes to star power domestic and overseas markets are apples and oranges. But in NA people like Denzel are very consistent. Any decent movie with Denzel is guaranteed at least 85 m. If he's playing a bad guy you can increase that to 125 m. You can't say that about many stars. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mahnamahna Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Apart from Downey who has now acquired an international appeal, none of those you have mentioned have more pull than Pitt, Jolie, Smith, Cruise and Depp to rise an average project that would bomb otherswise on the overseas market based on their sole superstar status...Pirates 4 and The Tourist are one of the main examples that comes to mind. Denzel movies consistently do less abroad and most of his $100 million action movies don't even reach $200 million worldwide unlike Jolie's own action movies. I was talking about domestic appeal since this is the DOM box office forum but I'd agree with you there - but Denzel's movies must turn a profit at some point because they keep giving him $70 to $100 million dollar budgets. Brad Pitt is another star I forgot - WWZ only made more than $150 million because of him. Johnny Depp's appeal is kinda falling though - Dark Shadows and Lone Ranger. I'm hoping Transcendence and Into the Woods bring us back the old Depp who made great movies and make some nice box office cash too. Jolie's action movies tend to be a little more expensive though ($100 to $150 million budgets) than Denzel so the barometer for success is a little lower for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mahnamahna Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 The comment was specifically about the relationship between RT and a movie's legs, and MoS legs were craptastic considering that huge OW. Actually no. There are incredibly few films (if any at all) with a 3 or more multiplier which have not been exactly hot among the critics. Whereas many movies get A, A+ or A- on CS and then prove to have meh to laughable legs. Have you heard of Now You See Me? (50% on RT) or maybe The Heat? (61% on RT) - both will have a 3.5 to 4.5x multiplier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey Freak Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Never doubt da Cage!!!! I don't really think either Stone or Cage were draws for the croods. Not every hit movie needs star power. Especially not animated ones. At this point though, da Stone easily draws more peeps to movies than da Cage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ainsleyb Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 When it comes to star power domestic and overseas markets are apples and oranges. But in NA people like Denzel are very consistent. Any decent movie with Denzel is guaranteed at least 85 m. If he's playing a bad guy you can increase that to 125 m. You can't say that about many stars. Denzel's films generally cost $100M to make though and his OS appeal is limited. If you look at his career quite a lot of his films fail to double their production budgets WW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey Freak Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Have you heard of Now You See Me? (50% on RT) or maybe The Heat? (61% on RT) - both will have a 3.5 to 4.5x multiplier Low to moderate budget comedy and horror movies are the most immune to RT yes, but not big budget flicks like MoS, PR and even the Transformers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ent Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 (edited) When it comes to star power domestic and overseas markets are apples and oranges. But in NA people like Denzel are very consistent. Any decent movie with Denzel is guaranteed at least 85 m. If he's playing a bad guy you can increase that to 125 m. You can't say that about many stars. I agree that domestically he is very consistent but it's easier to be consistent when you consistently chose the same type of projects where your performance are at its finest. For some years now Denzel has been playing into action/thriller movies not dramas like he used to be. So of course his success will be consistent since it is on par with the genre where he has become successfully typecasted. I am pretty sure if Pitt had started doing 90% of the time, action like he did with Mr and Mrs Smith, he would be as consistent or even more consistent in his success. Yet he mixes up and takes more risks.. Cruise is the same, he is consistent and more successful than Denzel in both markets when it comes to action movies. When he goes out of his comfort zione he becomes less consistent. Edited July 20, 2013 by Ent 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#ED Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 RIPD.... Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druv10 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Low to moderate budget comedy and horror movies are the most immune to RT yes, but not big budget flicks like MoS, PR and even the Transformers. RT didn't effect MOS or TF movies at the BO. They both made plenty of money while having lousy RT scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey Freak Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 RT didn't effect MOS or TF movies at the BO. They both made plenty of money while having lousy RT scores. Both have crap legs, and that is what the discussion is about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grey ghost Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Have you heard of Now You See Me? (50% on RT) or maybe The Heat? (61% on RT) - both will have a 3.5 to 4.5x multiplier I think it depends n the genre. There are very few comic book movies with over 80% on RT that have terrible legs and very few with under 50% RT scores that have good legs. That alone put RT above cinescores which are a far less accurate predictor of legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishstick Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Will is no draw anymore either. Lol, no. After Earth was clearly Jaden movie with Will tossed on the margins. Definitely not a Will movie. By that logic TC is even less of a draw cause Rock of the Ages bombed (where he was supporting actor only) and Oblivion didn't hit $100 mio. besides, it takes more than just one bomb (where lead is someone else) to declare that a star is not a draw. Apart from Downey who has now acquired an international appeal, none of those you have mentioned have more pull than Pitt, Jolie, Smith, Cruise and Depp to rise an average project that would bomb otherswise on the overseas market based on their sole superstar status...Pirates 4 and The Tourist are one of the main examples that comes to mind. Denzel movies consistently do less abroad and most of his $100 million action movies don't even reach $200 million worldwide unlike Jolie's own action movies. Leo has specialized in opening tough sells too. Also, Pitt and Leo presence in QT's last two movies helped them greatly at passing $100 mio dom with ease plus bigger OS returns. Star power is making a comeback in quality projects that otherwise wouldn't be as successful without a star name to intrigue GA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grey ghost Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I agree that domestically he is very consistent but it's easier to be consistent when you consistently chose the same type of projects where your performance are at its finest. For some years now Denzel has been playing into action/thriller movies not dramas like he used to be. So of course his success will be consistent since it is on par with the genre where he has become successfully typecasted. I am pretty sure if Pitt had started doing 90% of the time, action like he did with Mr and Mrs Smith, he would be as consistent or even more consistent in his success. Yet he mixes up and takes more risks.. Cruise is the same, he is consistent and more successful than Denzel in both markets when it comes to action movies. When he goes out of his comfort zione he becomes less consistent. I agree to some extent. But Flight was kind of risky thematically. Not as risky as Moneyball or Killing Them Softly but still risky. Denzel probably saw his salary and choices take a hit after The Great Debaters and swore off the smaller, passion projects for a while. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 So, 4 movies remain in the 100M running before the end of summer: - TheWolverine (lock) - 2Guns - TheSmurfs2 - Elysium 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poseidon Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Don't worry, I found the confirmation for you : http://boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=3148&p=.htm You're welcome. Thank you, but this just said, that they extended marketing support, not that they didn't care for its opening. And really, most blockbusters continue to have TV spots, even if the movie already is in cinemas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grey ghost Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Lol, no. After Earth was clearly Jaden movie with Will tossed on the margins. Definitely not a Will movie. By that logic TC is even less of a draw cause Rock of the Ages bombed (where he was supporting actor only) and Oblivion didn't hit $100 mio. besides, it takes more than just one bomb (where lead is someone else) to declare that a star is not a draw. Leo has specialized in opening tough sells too. Also, Pitt and Leo presence in QT's last two movies helped them greatly at passing $100 mio dom with ease plus bigger OS returns. Star power is making a comeback in quality projects that otherwise wouldn't be as successful without a star name to intrigue GA. I agree about Leo but Cruise and Smith were featured heavily in advertising for those films. They take some of the blame for those flops. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tower Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 (edited) Both have crap legs, and that is what the discussion is about. Transformers didn't have crap legs for a film performing at that level. Edited July 20, 2013 by Tower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MovieMan89 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 PR looks well on its way to a 60 percent drop with that Friday. Breakout WOM of the summer indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
