Avatar: The Way of Water | 16 DEC 2022 | Don't worry guys, critics like it

[NCsoft]

4 hours ago, tribefan695 said:

 

No one with a Y chromosome would admit to unironically liking that movie in the early 00s. Yeah, people quoted its lines but almost always as a joke.

Considering that sequels have always been Cameron's plan for this property you just can't accurately assess its cultural status until you see the whole picture. I mean, now you can't think of Star Wars without "No, I am your father"

 

Yeah, but it also did win 11 oscars with 13 nominations, that's a voting body that consists of mostly old white men...

But I get your point, it is way easier for someone to say they love Titanic now than back in the day. It was so big that it's embarrassing to like it, now it becomes a cultural event to be fondly remembered. 

Edited January 7, 2016 by NCsoft

[BadAtGender]

5 hours ago, Telemachos said:

 

I've been a fan of TITANIC from day 1. I think you're talking about teen or college-age boys.

 

Yeah, I resemble that. I was all in on the hate train at the time it was released. Something about how Cameron had betrayed nerds by making a chick flick. I didn't actually see it until last year.

 

God, I cringe when I think about being part of the crowd who believed that TPM just HAD to become the biggest movie of all time, because something something really stupid argument.

 

 

It is interesting how opinions have come around, both for Titanic and for Leo.

[Dementeleus]

23 minutes ago, NCsoft said:

It was so big that it's embarrassing to like it

 

What? It wasn't. 

[Dark 33Legend of the Sith]

After the 2nd time I watched it (in college at the time) it was in my all time top 10 and is still there today.

[somebody85]

7 hours ago, Cochofles said:

Lol...that same ole article is unearthed every so often when people want to "prove" that nobody cared/cares for Avatar. It's hilarious.

Yeah but it's hardly just that article:

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2015/05/19/avatar-the-biggest-movie-ever-why
 

http://screencrush.com/back-to-pandora-why-is-avatar-forgotten/

 

http://www.technologytell.com/entertainment/24221/hey-remember-avatar-i-barely-do/

 

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2013/08/05/avatar_sequels_three_no_one_cares_here_s_why.html
 

Quote from Slate - 2013:
"Late last week, Sigourney Weaver revealed that three sequels to Avatar would begin filming shortly. Given that Avatar was “the biggest-grossing movie ever,” this news was of course greeted with thousands of excited tweets and a wave of blog posts about the possible storylines and subplots of these new movies.

Or wait, no, sorry—actually the news was greeted with a collective shrug and the occasional yawn. People took to Twitter mostly to share the news that they didn’t care about the news. The critic Ali Arikan went so far as to request an essay about how Avatar, “the most successful film in history, has left nary a blip on pop-culture.” His request was retweeted 144 times and many others seconded his basic claim."

Quote From Siddhant at Birth Death Movies - 2015 (it's actually a really interesting article and obviously much more recent):
"I know it seems like a juvenile point to bring up, but it’s a relevant one in 2015, where things like these are indicators of what’s on people’s minds. When was the last time you saw an Avatar meme? Or heard somebody make an Avatar joke that wasn’t deriding the movie? Or heard someone simply quoting the movie in conversation? Furthermore, Tumblr is a hub for intense, obsessive fan dedication to fiction, and do you know what you’ll find if you search the #Avatar tag there?Avatar: The Last Airbender and The Legend of Korra. Pages and pages and pages of these two inter-connected shows whose mythologies are tied directly to the stories of their main characters, characters who have entire libraries worth of fan art and fan fiction and deconstructive essays dedicated to them. It’s the same for any other media no matter how many or how few people it’s seen by as long as it matters to them." - I ran into the same thing.

I wasn't following news of it's sequels when they were announced but if that's true that doesn't spell good things. I don't remember hearing any hype about them. Maybe James Cameron can do it again but if there are this many articles, that's kind of a sign they'll need massive marketing. *shrugs*

 

Edited January 7, 2016 by somebody85

[The Futurist]

Ethnocentrism.

 

It s true.

Al of it.

 

 

[kayumanggi]

Nobody remembers AVATAR that's why when the sequel comes out it is only Kal who will watch it. Terrible fate.

[somebody85]

1 hour ago, kayumanggi said:

Nobody remembers AVATAR that's why when the sequel comes out it is only Kal who will watch it. Terrible fate.

 

It's not that it has no fans, just not in the same ballpark as other major franchises. I'm not trying to bash the movie, I find it's story fascinating. I don't understand how a film with 49 million followers could be forgotten by so many, so quickly. I think others do too which is why there are so many articles about it.

But there is a lot of negativity towards the announcement of the sequels. Just check out the comments for recent announcements pertaining to the sequels on major film sites. Those people aren't IMDB trolls. To say the majority are thrilled would not be lying.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/04/28/or-maybe-james-cameron-will-make-four-avatar-sequels

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Avatar-2-What-We-Know-So-Far-42507.html

 

http://www.slashfilm.com/james-cameron-more-avatar-sequels/

 

http://www.eonline.com/news/445128/james-cameron-now-planning-three-avatar-sequels

 

http://www.avclub.com/article/james-cameron-reminds-everyone-hes-still-working-t-230107 - 12/22/2015 w/ 758 comments

It's everywhere you go.

Edited January 7, 2016 by somebody85

[BadAtGender]

9 minutes ago, somebody85 said:

 

It's not that it has no fans, just not in the same ballpark as other major franchises. I'm not trying to bash the movie, I find it's story fascinating. I don't understand how a film with 49 million followers could be forgotten by so many, so quickly. I think others do too which is why there are so many articles about it.

But there is a lot of negativity towards the announcement of the sequels. Just check out the comments for recent announcements pertaining to the sequels on major film sites. Those people aren't IMDB trolls. To say the majority are thrilled would not be lying.

 

Taking your two points last to first.

 

Point 2: It's the internet. The shape of communication and opinion tends towards polarizing. Things are either Awesomeness or Total Crapsack, and it's difficult to say something with nuance and not get ignored. This applies to social media spaces, forums, and, yes, professional outlets. Herd mentalities abound and if you see a bunch of thinkpieces that are along certain lines, you're likely to get in on the action (or offer up a direct counterpoint.)

 

(Aside: this actually may not exactly be due to the internet, although how social media technology is structured has something to do with it: Facebook affects communication in very different ways than the telephone, even ignoring all the bells and whistles. However, there's an argument to be made that how society has changed post 9/11 has led to a stronger polarization of ALL discussions, not just political ones. Things are either right or wrong, with less acceptance of grey area in between.)

 

Point 1: Most major franchises have a fairly constant presence in the media landscape. Even in periods when there was no movie (or even a hint of a movie), Star Wars had novels, comics, cartoons, and so forth to keep audiences in the know. Marvel and DC characters extend back up to 75 years of near-constant publishing presence, in addition to their forays elsewhere. And while there can be a rough barometric to be said that because these things exist, the brands are more popular, it also means that people will think about them because they are reminded. Video games for almost every major property tend to come along every few years, at the most.

 

Additionally, most major brands are OLD. For Live Action franchises, there are only a handful that have an original source material that's less than 20 years old. In comparison to many things, Star Wars' 38 year age makes it relatively young.

 

Avatar is a very strange beast. It was a major tentpole picture, and one that was obviously designed to set up a franchise. However, partially due to Cameron's technical perfectionism, and probably partially due to how the business is structured so that new brands have a very hard time to get a foothold established. Avatar had a smattering of tie-in material at the time of its release, but since then there's basically been nothing.

Do people not care? In a sense, yes, because there's nothing specifically to care about. Will people not care as we get closer to release? That's the big question. There is going to be a lot of advertising for this movie. There will be a lot of tie-in material. What effect that will have, especially if the films hit yearly from that point in remains to be seen.

 

It's possible audiences will look at Avatar 2, collectively shrug, and give Cameron his first disappointment since The Abyss. It's possible they'll go "Oh, yeah. That was a thing that I liked" and then get wowed by the world again and get sucked in. We'll have to see... next Christmas or whenever it happens.

[somebody85]

21 minutes ago, DamienRoc said:

 

Taking your two points last to first.

 

Point 2: It's the internet. The shape of communication and opinion tends towards polarizing. Things are either Awesomeness or Total Crapsack, and it's difficult to say something with nuance and not get ignored. This applies to social media spaces, forums, and, yes, professional outlets. Herd mentalities abound and if you see a bunch of thinkpieces that are along certain lines, you're likely to get in on the action (or offer up a direct counterpoint.)

 

(Aside: this actually may not exactly be due to the internet, although how social media technology is structured has something to do with it: Facebook affects communication in very different ways than the telephone, even ignoring all the bells and whistles. However, there's an argument to be made that how society has changed post 9/11 has led to a stronger polarization of ALL discussions, not just political ones. Things are either right or wrong, with less acceptance of grey area in between.)

 

Point 1: Most major franchises have a fairly constant presence in the media landscape. Even in periods when there was no movie (or even a hint of a movie), Star Wars had novels, comics, cartoons, and so forth to keep audiences in the know. Marvel and DC characters extend back up to 75 years of near-constant publishing presence, in addition to their forays elsewhere. And while there can be a rough barometric to be said that because these things exist, the brands are more popular, it also means that people will think about them because they are reminded. Video games for almost every major property tend to come along every few years, at the most.

 

Additionally, most major brands are OLD. For Live Action franchises, there are only a handful that have an original source material that's less than 20 years old. In comparison to many things, Star Wars' 38 year age makes it relatively young.

 

Avatar is a very strange beast. It was a major tentpole picture, and one that was obviously designed to set up a franchise. However, partially due to Cameron's technical perfectionism, and probably partially due to how the business is structured so that new brands have a very hard time to get a foothold established. Avatar had a smattering of tie-in material at the time of its release, but since then there's basically been nothing.

Do people not care? In a sense, yes, because there's nothing specifically to care about. Will people not care as we get closer to release? That's the big question. There is going to be a lot of advertising for this movie. There will be a lot of tie-in material. What effect that will have, especially if the films hit yearly from that point in remains to be seen.

 

It's possible audiences will look at Avatar 2, collectively shrug, and give Cameron his first disappointment since The Abyss. It's possible they'll go "Oh, yeah. That was a thing that I liked" and then get wowed by the world again and get sucked in. We'll have to see... next Christmas or whenever it happens.

 

That is a completely fair assessment. I wouldn't say the articles about the movie themselves are polarizing though (at least not what I scanned except Slates which is titled "No one cares"), they are just announcing the news. But yeah the comments get the ball rolling.

I'm not really sure how else to judge what the GA thinks about these movies happening. I chose a fair number of sites that aren't comic book related or anything. I'm just trying to see if this amazing hype that some see is there and so far I'm not feeling it. Maybe Kal and his buddies visit different sites because this is the first time I've actually looked into the response to those announcements.

But yeah I'm really curious to see how this movie fares in today's climate especially following this reaction. The trailer very well could come out and blow everyone away but I'm not seeing how yet, due to the disinterest in the actual universe that many seem to have.

Edited January 7, 2016 by somebody85

[BadAtGender]

9 minutes ago, somebody85 said:

 

That is a completely fair assessment. I wouldn't say the articles about the movie themselves are polarizing though (at least not what I scanned except Slates which is titled "No one cares"), they are just announcing the news. But yeah the comments get the ball rolling.

I'm not really sure how else to judge what the GA thinks about these movies happening. I chose a fair number of sites that aren't comic book related or anything. I'm just trying to see if this amazing hype that some see is there and so far I'm not seeing it. Maybe Kal and his buddies visit different sites because this is the first time I've actually looked into the response to those announcements.

But yeah I'm really curious to see how this movie fares in today's climate especially following this reaction. The trailer very well could come out and blow everyone away but I'm not seeing how yet, due to the disinterest in the actual universe that many seem to have.

 

Some of it has to do with how we engage media. Many creators have a strong social media presence and interact with fans of their works, answering questions and such, even if there isn't anything being produced for said media at that moment. (Not exactly great example, but the animated Avatar fandom is still quite active, despite the Legend of Korra show ending over a year ago and the creators have since moved on to work on new projects. Even so, they're still engaged with the fans, which keeps up interest. But there are ALSO still comics being produced, so...)

 

In contrast, James Cameron does not really do that. In fact, I wonder if he finds all the tie-in stuff superfluous and distracting. He's completely engaged in making the film and will leave the fans to do what they will, even if it means moving on to other properties for the time being. (Christopher Nolan is much the same, but in his case, when you're working on Batman, you don't need to do that engagement yourself.)

 

My point isn't that you're wrong and Avatar will be loved (because I'm not about absolutes), but rather there are conclusions being drawn from imperfect information. And that we're also dealing with a strange situation.

 

 

Final point. Prior to 2008, people in general didn't give a shit about Iron Man. He had some fans, but there wasn't anything even approaching the scale that's existed since. What happened was Marvel made a film about him that was good and entertaining. So people showed up and latched on. Then more films showed up to keep them engaged. If Cameron makes a film that's good and entertaining, people could show up in droves. They just need a little reminder.

[arlo]

37 minutes ago, somebody85 said:

It's not that it has no fans, just not in the same ballpark as other major franchises. I'm not trying to bash the movie, I find it's story fascinating. I don't understand how a film with 49 million followers could be forgotten by so many, so quickly. I think others do too which is why there are so many articles about it.

 

But there is a lot of negativity towards the announcement of the sequels. Just check out the comments for recent announcements pertaining to the sequels on major film sites. Those people aren't IMDB trolls.

 

There has been a ton of negativity directed at Avatar ever since the first teaser came out. Especially in internet comment sections. If they were actually representative of public opinion, Avatar would've flopped like they predicted, Serenity would've grossed more than Titanic and Ron Paul would've been elected President of the United States in a landslide.

 

When Avatar's success proved the doomsayers wrong and showed its detractors to be a fringe minority, they resorted to arguing it was only because of the 3D (the same 3D that they'd mocked Cameron for believing in) and that Avatar would flop on blu-ray. Of course that didn't happen either. None of their predictions do, but they keep plugging along, trying to convince themselves that public opinion is secretly with them. That it matters this much to them is one reason why they have such difficulty understanding Avatar's audience, most of whom couldn't care less about whether this movie they casually enjoyed six years ago is winning in geek debates on the internet.

[IronJimbo]

5 hours ago, somebody85 said:

 

 

 

 

Interesting how in that video he says "Titanic the second highest grossing film of all time" then the screen shows Mojo's World Wide page. It's almost like "highest grossing film" has changed it's meaning in the last week, sws loonies are fickle.

 

Also could you please stop with your anecdotes about people on the internet hating it, it's really useless information.

Edited January 7, 2016 by IronJimbo

[The Futurist]

People who say Avatar had a liberal agenda are cute.

 

They wouldn't recognize the sky is blue if you d tell them.

 

[kayumanggi]

2 hours ago, arlo said:

 

There has been a ton of negativity directed at Avatar ever since the first teaser came out. Especially in internet comment sections. If they were actually representative of public opinion, Avatar would've flopped like they predicted, Serenity would've grossed more than Titanic and Ron Paul would've been elected President of the United States in a landslide.

 

When Avatar's success proved the doomsayers wrong and showed its detractors to be a fringe minority, they resorted to arguing it was only because of the 3D (the same 3D that they'd mocked Cameron for believing in) and that Avatar would flop on blu-ray. Of course that didn't happen either. None of their predictions do, but they keep plugging along, trying to convince themselves that public opinion is secretly with them. That it matters this much to them is one reason why they have such difficulty understanding Avatar's audience, most of whom couldn't care less about whether this movie they casually enjoyed six years ago is winning in geek debates on the internet.

 

THIS.

[kayumanggi]

4 hours ago, somebody85 said:

 

It's not that it has no fans, just not in the same ballpark as other major franchises. I'm not trying to bash the movie, I find it's story fascinating. I don't understand how a film with 49 million followers could be forgotten by so many, so quickly. I think others do too which is why there are so many articles about it.

But there is a lot of negativity towards the announcement of the sequels. Just check out the comments for recent announcements pertaining to the sequels on major film sites. Those people aren't IMDB trolls. To say the majority are thrilled would not be lying.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/04/28/or-maybe-james-cameron-will-make-four-avatar-sequels

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Avatar-2-What-We-Know-So-Far-42507.html

 

http://www.slashfilm.com/james-cameron-more-avatar-sequels/

 

http://www.eonline.com/news/445128/james-cameron-now-planning-three-avatar-sequels

 

http://www.avclub.com/article/james-cameron-reminds-everyone-hes-still-working-t-230107 - 12/22/2015 w/ 758 comments

It's everywhere you go.

 

It was never from the get go, and guess what? Tada! Biggest film ever worldwide. A lot of negativity? Just carry on. They definitely represent the worldwide audience.

[The Futurist]

2 hours ago, arlo said:

 

There has been a ton of negativity directed at Avatar ever since the first teaser came out. Especially in internet comment sections. If they were actually representative of public opinion, Avatar would've flopped like they predicted, Serenity would've grossed more than Titanic and Ron Paul would've been elected President of the United States in a landslide.

 

When Avatar's success proved the doomsayers wrong and showed its detractors to be a fringe minority, they resorted to arguing it was only because of the 3D (the same 3D that they'd mocked Cameron for believing in) and that Avatar would flop on blu-ray. Of course that didn't happen either. None of their predictions do, but they keep plugging along, trying to convince themselves that public opinion is secretly with them. That it matters this much to them is one reason why they have such difficulty understanding Avatar's audience, most of whom couldn't care less about whether this movie they casually enjoyed six years ago is winning in geek debates on the internet.

 

Stop it.

Stop Making Sense.

 

The Internetz hate that.

[kayumanggi]

lol I am under the impression that BKB is saying Americans are that stupid.

[RascarCapat]

I went twice in 2009 because I loved the experience in the cinema (of course including 3D).

I never go to see a movie twice in the cinema.

This and Gravity are the only movies I saw that got 3D right, all others were completly useless in 3D to the point that I don't go to 3D shows anymore.

 

And yeah I thought that it would be a shame to watch it on a TV without 3D and I was not interested in watching it again until a few days ago.

My wife had never seen the movie btw.

 

So we watched it on our big screen TV in 1080p and it is still fantastic. It is a nice adventure epic movie that brought back the things I liked as a kid. My wife loved it also.

Of course it's all CGI and it's apparent but hell I'm a video game player and I keep tellig myself how fantastic modern games look so I cannot blame Avatar for looking like a breathtaking video game. It does look fake though, but a good artistic fake. I feel like blaming Avatar for looking fake is a stupid as blaming Van Vogh for his painting style.

 

So yeah, 3D was awesome, 3D brought me back. But Movie is great, BlueRay was Great, stop the useless hate.

 

[DMan7]

The question remains how will Cameron be able to maintain the novelty which the last one accomplished due to the fact of improved 3D technology. I think they'll need to create special theatres where they retrofit it with mechanical seats that move according to the action that takes place on the screen as well as probably atmospheric features such as cold, hot and windy environments to further make use of what's going on in the movie.