Avatar: The Way of Water | 16 DEC 2022 | Don't worry guys, critics like it

[The Gotham Bank]

9 minutes ago, BKB IS CAPTAIN AMERICA said:

 

The problem is, is that they should've struck when the iron was hot and made this a long time ago instead of waiting 10 years...

This. I think they are being a bit overconfident ( which is understandable, given Avatar's gross ) to release it this many years after the first.

[Dementeleus]

6 minutes ago, The Gotham Bank said:

This. I think they are being a bit overconfident ( which is understandable, given Avatar's gross ) to release it this many years after the first.

 

Who is "they", though? I'm sure Fox would've loved to have a sequel by 2012 or so. On the flip side, I don't think Cameron has been delaying just for the hell of it. He wanted to make sure he had all his ducks lined up in a row... and let's face it, that's the right approach.

[BadAtGender]

Oh, I'm sure if Fox said so, Cameron would have TOTALLY been on board with a 2 year production cycle for the sequel. They should have pegged Christmas 2011 after opening weekend.

 

I mean, films turn out great when that happens, right? Totally the best things we've ever seen.

[arlo]

I think what DamienRoc is saying applies even more to Avatar's general audience, as it was a lot broader and more casual than most sci-fi/fantasy blockbusters. We can, and many Avatar detractors frequently do, point to dozens of such movies that had/have way more active and dedicated fanbases than Avatar ever had, yet Avatar trounced them all at the box office. Avatar was always unpopular with the type of people who dominate discussion of movies on the internet, and they grew to dislike Avatar even more for showing how incredibly far they are from being the arbiters of public opinion that they fashion themselves to be.

 

I do think Avatar 2 will drop a lot, even if it has great word of mouth, but so did The Empire Strikes Back. It won't prove what the detractors are hoping for.

[Dementeleus]

8 minutes ago, BKB IS CAPTAIN AMERICA said:

 

If Cameron hadn't of put the stellar 3D we see in AVATAR, we wouldn't have seen the $$$$ it made and that's really what makes the sequel a harder sell is coming up with a gimmick moviegoers are going to buy into in seeing this repeatedly like the 1st movie and 3D was the reason.. Unless Cameron has something up his sleeve greater than the 3D he gave us, then forget it.. This will perform like any other sequel and I'm sure Kal and Ironjimbo and Cochofles will ride in here and tell me otherwise, right down to the Blu-Ray sales and you know what?? I don't care cause it's true.. I can't think of a sequel where the Director waited 10 years or so to make it and it ended up being as successful as the 1st movie and this won't be any different..

 

I'm going to skip over the 3D argument, cuz I feel that's been debated to death and we sure aren't gonna convince each other at this point. In terms of the time, it's not gonna be 10 years, it'll (probably) be more like 8. And as to successful sequels that took that about that long to happen, look no further than two amazing Cameron movies: ALIENS and T2. 

[XXR vs XXR]

4 minutes ago, Telemachos said:

 

I'm going to skip over the 3D argument, cuz I feel that's been debated to death and we sure aren't gonna convince each other at this point. In terms of the time, it's not gonna be 10 years, it'll (probably) be more like 8. And as to successful sequels that took that about that long to happen, look no further than two amazing Cameron movies: ALIENS and T2. 

Or even Jurassic World and Force Awakens this year. Now TFA is a bit of a different animal due to the fandom, but JW doesn't have a vocal fandom or tons of merchandise and it did beastly. One might even say a 10 year (or 9 year) wait could build up the fervor for it more than a 2 or 3 years "strike while the iron is hot" mentality. 

[vc2002]

12 minutes ago, BKB IS CAPTAIN AMERICA said:

 

If Cameron hadn't of put the stellar 3D we see in AVATAR, we wouldn't have seen the $$$$ it made and that's really what makes the sequel a harder sell is coming up with a gimmick moviegoers are going to buy into in seeing this repeatedly like the 1st movie and 3D was the reason.. Unless Cameron has something up his sleeve greater than the 3D he gave us, then forget it.. This will perform like any other sequel and I'm sure Kal and Ironjimbo and Cochofles will ride in here and tell me otherwise, right down to the Blu-Ray sales and you know what?? I don't care cause it's true.. I can't think of a sequel where the Director waited 10 years or so to make it and it ended up being as successful as the 1st movie and this won't be any different..

 

Cameron is known for doing sth people can't think of. No one could think of that 200m-budge film about a sinking boat being able to to make its money back let alone being the highest grossing film of all time. No one could think a blue-cat-looking-aliens movie with no fanbase could make over 2billion. No one could think of a director that made the highest grossing films of alltime twice back to back 12 years apart.

 

I'm not judging Avatar2's performance here, but you better not be that affirmative after Cameron proved you wrong twice when you said it was impossible just because it never happened before.

[RascarCapat]

Yep 3D was awesome, 3D helped whatever.

 

But it was not the only quality in Avatar and it does not explain alone the outstanding BO performance, and I'm not going to go into the details because it's been done over and over again in this post.

 

However, has any of you seen any 3D movies like Avatar ? Anything that even got close ? Ok maybe Gravity and I heard pirahna 3D got it right somehow, I cannot check it out because I ain't got no 3D cinema at home though.

I think Avatar 2's 3D will be awesome, I willl go see it in 3D, and that is rare as I now hate 3D because of how awefull it looks in every single other movie.

 

If it is indeed another awesome 3D experience, I don't see why it will not be a sucess. Bear with me I'm no Kal, I don't think it will top Avatar actually (and that is sad because I'd love another crazy BO run to follow).

 

So yeah my point is, if 3D (and the rest) is great, people will go, maybe repeatedly. 3D is no one time gimmick. No other movie got it right, maybe this one will, maybe people will go repeatedly.

 

[BadAtGender]

23 minutes ago, VenomXXR said:

Or even Jurassic World and Force Awakens this year. Now TFA is a bit of a different animal due to the fandom, but JW doesn't have a vocal fandom or tons of merchandise and it did beastly. One might even say a 10 year (or 9 year) wait could build up the fervor for it more than a 2 or 3 years "strike while the iron is hot" mentality. 

 

There's an interesting intersection between how much time is necessary to make a good film, and how much time is good for the audience engagement. And how much "other stuff" is good for keeping interest rather than overloading and reducing interest in the film. I definitely notice it more with animation, because we can have situations like what happened with HTTYD2 last year. Most pre-release expectations were that it was going to be huge, the biggest film of the summer. Prime release date, solid marketing. And then it just does okay. Not bad, but not the gangbusters we expected.

 

Why did this happen? Was it because of the 4 year gap from the first film? (Animation tentpoles tend to need a bit more time to develop. Hell, Frozen 2 is probably going to hit 5 or 6 years after the first.) Or was it because of the tie-in cartoons, which may have undermined interest in the film. But if it's the latter case, why aren't, say, superhero movies affected the same way. Batman and Avengers cartoons are on all the time, to say nothing of the comics.

 

So it's really hard. Heck, there are people who have expensive marketing degrees who get paid lots of money to figure this out because, literally, hundreds of millions of dollars are on the line for any given film. And it seems more often than not, THEY don't know what's going on. Jurassic World's success this year was a surprise, especially on the scale it did. Frozen's success literally came out of nowhere, and was in contrast to the best efforts of the early marketing. Or Pacific Rim, which, yes, did have a lot of early internet support, and some extremely fond love letters from people in related industries (there's one from--Shoji Kawamori? Someone who works in anime--that was quite touching), but when it came down to it, the audience wasn't there.

 

We can often look back on things after the fact and go "Oh, of COURSE! That's why x thing did what it did!" and the signs will be obvious. But hindsight is 20/20. At the moment, it's not at all clear. So despite being able to snap our fingers and convince ourselves it was obvious all along, we're deluding ourselves.

 

Wow. That meandered off course. Sorry.

[IronJimbo]

12 hours ago, Telemachos said:

 

Who is "they", though? I'm sure Fox would've loved to have a sequel by 2012 or so. On the flip side, I don't think Cameron has been delaying just for the hell of it. He wanted to make sure he had all his ducks lined up in a row... and let's face it, that's the right approach.

Don't forget leading a team of engineers to creating a submarine to hit the bottom of the marina trench then manning it himself. That took him 3 years.

[Cochofles]

 

11 hours ago, BKB IS CAPTAIN AMERICA said:

If Cameron hadn't of put the stellar 3D we see in AVATAR, we wouldn't have seen the $$$$ it made...

 

Right.

Keep telling yourself that.

Maybe someday you'll believe it yourself.

[Captain Craig]

Having waited so long between films it'll be very curious to see if the Nostalgia argument holds.

Let's say you were 10 in '09 and the boy in you loved it, you're dad took you 3/4 times to see it type thing. At 18 are you still in awe and looking forward to the sequel or have you seen it on DVD, become unimpressed and don't really care like many others. 

 

Are you Joe Moviegoer who saw it, liked it and are indifferent now cause it's had no real social impact. No one talks about it, can you buy back into the hype that the marketing team is sure to attempt?

 

If you saw it, loved it, still love it I feel you're in a smaller camp of people. 

[IronJimbo]

The exact same thing will happen with Avatar 2 as it did with the first.

The first trailer hits, marketing kicks in then people watch it and are blown away.

 

"Hey man have you seen Avatar it's amazing!"

WOM

 

Edited January 8, 2016 by IronJimbo

[Kalel009Shel]

Your not in sws land anymore.  Your on Pandora. Hey all

[IronJimbo]

1 minute ago, Kalel009Shel said:

Your not in sws land anymore.  Your on Pandora. Hey all

 

You haven't got lost in the woods, have ya?

[water]

i do think the long wait will allow for a buildup of an event feeling if they do it right

[Kalel009Shel]

13 minutes ago, water said:

i do think the long wait will allow for a buildup of an event feeling if they do it right

Water rumour has it,  they are even doing another avatar  day preview domestically and the world.  James Cameron big films are always event movies in fact he is now pulling off things never thought possible.   I love it avatar 2 starts production within weeks.  Countdown to taking back the domestic starts soon and surpassing avatars incredible 2.8bww haul to become the new king.

 

Headlines ah plenty Cameron's fanatics will make.  Still amazed they are gunning  for the entire film to hit 90-120 fps.  Mother of god!

[Empire]

Just now, Kalel009Shel said:

Water rumour has it,  they are even doing another avatar  day preview domestically and the world.  James Cameron big films are always event movies in fact he is now pulling off things never thought possible.   I love it avatar 2 starts production within weeks.  Countdown to taking back the domestic starts soon and surpassing avatars incredible 2.8bww haul to become the new king.

 

Headlines ah plenty Cameron's fanatics will make.  Still amazed they are gunning  for the entire film to hit 90-120 fps.  Mother of god!

Avatar 2 won't even make as much as the first domestically. No way it tops TFA DOM BO. 

[Warmaster506]

Can't wait. Cameron has never let me down.

[Kalel009Shel]

12 hours ago, vc2002 said:

 

Cameron is known for doing sth people can't think of. No one could think of that 200m-budge film about a sinking boat being able to to make its money back let alone being the highest grossing film of all time. No one could think a blue-cat-looking-aliens movie with no fanbase could make over 2billion. No one could think of a director that made the highest grossing films of alltime twice back to back 12 years apart.

 

I'm not judging Avatar2's performance here, but you better not be that affirmative after Cameron proved you wrong twice when you said it was impossible just because it never happened before.

Thank you tele. Deep down we know he's going to pull the hat trick with the domestic and is.  Nothing is guaranteed,  but this Yoda of film making is proving he can and always break normal rules in half. Not even Steven at his peak pulled a sequel jump like terminator to terminator 2. Two world breakers that were Oscar and top award darlings across the board and  ontop of that changed how filmmakers develop their respective movies.  I can't wait to see Cameron achieve all time records from domestic to is again tele. That ow of Dec will be a challenge but Cameron fans just may rush the theater as well. 

Ow predicts ranging from 140-270m . Wow