Avatar: The Way of Water | 16 DEC 2022 | Don't worry guys, critics like it

[Plain Old Tele]

1 minute ago, DamienRoc said:

 

This gets to a bit of an interesting philosophical question: why do we track the box office?

 

I think for many -- though not all -- it's some tangible fact to reinforce that "my preferred franchise is best". Sadly.

[CaptainJackSparrow]

I'm addicted to numbers, plus my love for film. 

[IronJimbo]

4 minutes ago, Telemachos said:

 

I think for many -- though not all -- it's some tangible fact to reinforce that "my preferred franchise is best". Sadly.

I don't think thats a terrible thing.

 

Afterall most blockbusters are made with the intetion of making the most money possible, so we're just measuring them on their objective.

[Water Bottle]

9 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

 

I enjoyed the most the other star wars films, the worst was The Force Awakens. Perhaps because expectations, who cares, I didn't enjoy it and it had no good moments.

 

The Avengers was directed terribly! It looked like a telivision director was given a large sum of cash to try and make a blockbuster. Oh wait...

 

I can and do enjoy most big blockbusters.

Recently Jurassic World, Mad Max, Inside Out, Mission Impossible, The Martian and even Batman vs Supes.
 

 

Really? You think TFA is worse than the prequels? Well, I think you are alone there and it had a lot of crowd-pleasing moments. Also considering how the Avengers had a universally positive reception, crowd-pleasing moments to boot...I'd say that in the end, the films were pretty fantastic and I do hope we get more like them.

 

I guess you hated Mission Impossible 3, though.

 

2 minutes ago, Telemachos said:

 

I think for many -- though not all -- it's some tangible fact to reinforce that "my preferred franchise is best". Sadly.

 

Which is silly. Once Pokemon comes out, it'll make more than Avatar and Titanic combined. The franchise war is over. Pokemon has entered, and now all the pretenders can only vie for second place.

[Plain Old Tele]

4 minutes ago, Water Bottle said:

Which is silly. Once Pokemon comes out, it'll make more than Avatar and Titanic combined. The franchise war is over. Pokemon has entered, and now all the pretenders can only vie for second place.

 

Imma ban you right now, WB, for the good of us all.

[BadAtGender]

2 minutes ago, Telemachos said:

 

I think for many -- though not all -- it's some tangible fact to reinforce that "my preferred franchise is best". Sadly.

 

Ah, yes. The sports metaphor.

 

Sadly, box office tracking doesn't yet seem to be at the point that healthy sabermetrics is. People who are hardcore about baseball numbers will (usually) have their favorite team, but the love of the numbers broadens out that interest so that they come to appreciate the game as a whole in a deeper manner. I love the Mariners, but that doesn't force me to come up with reasons why, say, Mike Trout is a horrible player, just because he plays for a contender. I'm not going to massage that data.

 

I get wanting to have box office stand in for that team feeling. When the stars align and a film that I love does something amazing in the box office, it's great.

 

 

But to get limited to that mindset doesn't allow for healthy analysis or discussion. 

[Plain Old Tele]

Just now, DamienRoc said:

 

Ah, yes. The sports metaphor.

 

Sadly, box office tracking doesn't yet seem to be at the point that healthy sabermetrics is. People who are hardcore about baseball numbers will (usually) have their favorite team, but the love of the numbers broadens out that interest so that they come to appreciate the game as a whole in a deeper manner. I love the Mariners, but that doesn't force me to come up with reasons why, say, Mike Trout is a horrible player, just because he plays for a contender. I'm not going to massage that data.

 

I get wanting to have box office stand in for that team feeling. When the stars align and a film that I love does something amazing in the box office, it's great.

 

 

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But to get limited to that mindset doesn't allow for healthy analysis or discussion. 

 

I was expecting another movie in that spoiler tag.

 

I'm not sure why there's such an extreme dichotomy for movies. I can cheerfully hate Barry Bonds and admit he was a fantastic player at the same time.

[IronJimbo]

3 minutes ago, Water Bottle said:

 

Really? You think TFA is worse than the prequels? Well, I think you are alone there and it had a lot of crowd-pleasing moments.

I honestly think most Marvel films are cookie cooker generic with poorly done action, I'm gonna save whats wrong with The Avengers for another day.

 

When I watched the prequels admittedly I would have been 9,11 and 13? I thoroughly enjoyed them, perhaps that meant they were childrens films I don't know. They had exciting moments. The Force Awakens in my view was very bland, no imagination, it wasn't stand alone, no exciting moments. About the moments, which moments do you think were pleasing? It seems to me all the "epic" moments can be summed up by "wow look! nostaglia". I guess it felt like George moved the Star Wars film in a direction with the prequels, then JJ poorly tried to bring it back to the originals.

[Plain Old Tele]

1 minute ago, IronJimbo said:

I honestly think most Marvel films are cookie cooker generic with poorly done action, I'm gonna save whats wrong with The Avengers for another day.

 

When I watched the prequels admittedly I would have been 9,11 and 13? I thoroughly enjoyed them, perhaps that meant they were childrens films I don't know. They had exciting moments. The Force Awakens in my view was very bland, no imagination, it wasn't stand alone, no exciting moments. About the moments, which moments do you think were pleasing? It seems to me all the "epic" moments can be summed up by "wow look! nostaglia". I guess it felt like George moved the Star Wars film in a direction with the prequels, then JJ poorly tried to bring it back to the originals.

 

Nostalgia's a powerful thing. TFA (mostly) made me feel like a kid again, in so many great ways. Even trying to be as objective as I can, I think it was well put together.

[IronJimbo]

3 minutes ago, Telemachos said:

 

Nostalgia's a powerful thing. TFA (mostly) made me feel like a kid again, in so many great ways. Even trying to be as objective as I can, I think it was well put together.

 

Nothing really happened! It felt really bland. Mediocracy.

 

I went in expecting an epic but got something entirely different.

Edited April 15, 2016 by IronJimbo

[Water Bottle]

Just now, IronJimbo said:

I honestly think most Marvel films are cookie cooker generic with poorly done action, I'm gonna save whats wrong with The Avengers for another day.

 

When I watched the prequels admittedly I would have been 9,11 and 13? I thoroughly enjoyed them, perhaps that meant they were childrens films I don't know. They had exciting moments. The Force Awakens in my view was very bland, no imagination, it wasn't stand alone, no exciting moments. About the moments, which moments do you think were pleasing? It seems to me all the "epic" moments can be summed up by "wow look! nostaglia". I guess it felt like George moved the Star Wars film in a direction with the prequels, then JJ poorly tried to bring it back to the originals.

 

1) When the blaster was stopped mid-air.

2) Poe

3) Rey was fantastic

4) Finn was also great, especially his sense of humor (lots of people liked Rey and Finn's interactions, and I remember people laughing at lines like Finn having to tell himself to act calm when rescuing Poe)

5) The awesome chase of the Millenium Falcon through a destroyed star destroyer which was awesome

6) Let's not forget the moment when BB-8 (or BB-8 in general) agreed to lie to Finn. Funny stuff that really displayed her own unique personality.

7) Yes, Han Solo had a lot of claps for nostalgia but also because he was genuinely awesome and funny in the movie ("That's not how the Force works!")

8) Han Solo liking firing Chewbacca's crossbow

9) Giving us a different villain in Kylo Ren.

10 Snoke's enormous hologram.

 

That's just 10. I could do this all day.

[BadAtGender]

12 minutes ago, Telemachos said:

 

I was expecting another movie in that spoiler tag.

 

I'm not sure why there's such an extreme dichotomy for movies. I can cheerfully hate Barry Bonds and admit he was a fantastic player at the same time.

 

 

 

 

 

Better? Though it didn't have that run that says it was going to live historic.

 

 

I think part of it is that box office tracking is considerably newer than baseball. It doesn't have a century of analysis to lead to the state of the current day. And it doesn't have the benefit that other sports do which is a lateral shift of analysis from baseball.

 

Another part is that sabermetricians probably trend older than box office trackers. They're equally nerdy, but their brand affinity sense has been tempered by a bit more experience. Plus in sports, there's an inherent understanding that sometime your team will lose. With geek media, that's not the case, and that makes the internalized labels harder to accept criticism for.

 

(Related: see the difficulty of gamers as a collective to accept critique of games.)

Edited April 15, 2016 by DamienRoc

[IronJimbo]

5 minutes ago, Water Bottle said:

 

1) When the blaster was stopped mid-air.

2) Poe

3) Rey was fantastic

4) Finn was also great, especially his sense of humor (lots of people liked Rey and Finn's interactions, and I remember people laughing at lines like Finn having to tell himself to act calm when rescuing Poe)

5) The awesome chase of the Millenium Falcon through a destroyed star destroyer which was awesome

6) Let's not forget the moment when BB-8 (or BB-8 in general) agreed to lie to Finn. Funny stuff that really displayed her own unique personality.

7) Yes, Han Solo had a lot of claps for nostalgia but also because he was genuinely awesome and funny in the movie ("That's not how the Force works!")

8) Han Solo liking firing Chewbacca's crossbow

9) Giving us a different villain in Kylo Ren.

10 Snoke's enormous hologram.

 

That's just 10. I could do this all day.

 

I said exciting moments and 4 of those aren't moments.

I liked Finn and #5 is the best moment you have there.

 

Edited April 15, 2016 by IronJimbo

[Plain Old Tele]

Arguing over whether subjective opinions are right or not is just silly.

[Water Bottle]

4 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

 

I said exciting moments and 4 of those aren't moments.

I liked Finn and #5 is the best moment you have there.

 

 

 No you asked me which moments pleased me. Any time Poe was on the screen,  it pleased me.

[Elessar]

Poe? Poe?!

 

He was very bland. Not necessarily the actor's fault, they gave him nothing to do.

[The Futurist]

1 hour ago, tribefan695 said:

I think Aliens was seen as mildly underwhelming given it dipped from the original's adjusted gross

 

No it was a giant success, the first movie of Fox that year, 7th overall, and it saved Fox from bankruptcy.

You read me correct.

7 Oscar Nominations.

Edited April 15, 2016 by The Futurist

[IronJimbo]

54 minutes ago, Water Bottle said:

 

 No you asked me which moments pleased me. Any time Poe was on the screen,  it pleased me.

 

It's as Tele says, this is subjective. I wanted to get my point across my dislike of the film isn't franchise based though.

[Water Bottle]

2 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

 

It's as Tele says, this is subjective. I wanted to get my point across my dislike of the film isn't franchise based though.

 

Okay, fair enough. I apologize for making that assumption.

[IronJimbo]

6 minutes ago, Water Bottle said:

 

Okay, fair enough. I apologize for making that assumption.

To be fair I probably shouldn't use two extremely popular films as examples of wasted budget. Afterall people clearly enjoyed them so it isn't money wasted.