Avatar: The Way of Water | 16 DEC 2022 | Don't worry guys, critics like it

[NCsoft]

13 hours ago, Spartan117 said:

Don't think Lion King remake would make that much money. Personally I don't feel it. 

I could see it getting anywhere between 1.3 to 2B WW, but not more than that though.

[IronJimbo]

1 hour ago, NCsoft said:

I don't think that'll happen at all, I think TLK's worldwide box office potential, while great, has been severely overestimated. I also think despite the fact that Avengers 4 being the actual conclusion of the current phase, IW has been promoted that way so general audiences will get slightly fatigued next year, I think Avengers 4 will do great but will  fall below IW, especially worldwide. So really, imminent threat for Avatar is IW, except that it is not really a threat, it is more of a threat for Titanic, which sadly, I concede is within IW's shooting range (upper upper range though), we'll see what happens with next few weeks.

 

And the other sad thing is, we seem to be able to pinpoint exactly the usual suspects that could challenge box office records these days. We know TLK remake, Avengers 4, Frozen 2, EP9 will be big next year, and no other film will approach their box office, we can say this with almost 100% certainty. What happened to films that came out and blow everyone's mind and blows up in box office? like Jaws, ET, A new hope, Jurassic World, Titanic, Avatar etc......

 

The comic book gang (most of this site) just don't get it how much we need Jim. They see the depressing shift towards studio first blockbusters and they're applauding it.

 

Avatar 2 will be the first mind blower in anout 11 years.

[NCsoft]

26 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

The comic book gang (most of this site) just don't get it how much we need Jim. They see the depressing shift towards studio first blockbusters and they're applauding it.

Very true, though it is even worse outside of this site, this site has some love towards Cameron at least, there's none out there. The other day, someone on YouTube /or another forum commented : "Can't wait for that stupid blue cat film to be overtaken by IW in box office, that film being number 1 is a crime against humanity." 

 

Fanboys are so eager to become corporate franchise slaves that they make such horrible comments on what could be the last groundbreaking massively popular original film property in Hollywood, a product from a director with a singular vision that changed cinema in many aspects.

36 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

Avatar 2 will be the first mind blower in anout 11 years.

I don't doubt that, Avatar 2 earned its right to be made, unlike many other sequels.

[IronJimbo]

2 minutes ago, NCsoft said:

Very true, though it is even worse outside of this site, this site has some love towards Cameron at least, there's none out there. The other day, someone on YouTube /or another forum commented : "Can't wait for that stupid blue cat film to be overtaken by IW in box office, that film being number 1 is a crime against humanity." 

 

Fanboys are so eager to become corporate franchise slaves that they make such horrible comments on what could be the last groundbreaking massively popular original film property in Hollywood, a product from a director with a singular vision that changed cinema in many aspects.

I don't doubt that, Avatar 2 earned its right to be made, unlike many other sequels.

The further away you move from nerd culture the higher the Avatar praise is, I was on Zoe's Instagram and people were losing their shit at Avatar 2 finally being made. Internet movie sites in no way share the opinions of the overall audience, they seem to be those who've bought into the comic book fad or new age Star Wars.

 

The worst part is that I would guess over half the haters loved the film when they saw it in Cinema and it wasn't the #1 highest grossing film, they realised they had to hate it after Star Wars and Cape couldn't get near it. So much so that even Jim acknowledges this weird internet phenomenon.

 

[IronJimbo]

"everyone's forgotten about Avatar" is going to bite so many BOT users in the ass I tell you

[The Futurist]

On 26/4/2018 at 10:07 PM, Deuce66 said:

Fresh New York Times article.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/26/arts/television/james-cameron-amc-series-avatar-terminator.html

 

Q:You are developing four “Avatar” sequels at the same time, which seems like an enormous undertaking. Why did you take that approach, and how has it gone so far?

 

It’s been great. We basically went down and developed a pathway for the technology that would be amortized across four movies. And in parallel with that, I wrote the four scripts. And in parallel with that writing and pipeline development process, we also designed all four films.

We finitely designed movie two and three meaning every single set, every object, every prop, every setting, every creature, every blade of grass. We’ve broadly designed movies four and five, meaning all the main characters and main settings. So we’re actually in really good shape. The entire universe is well in focus for us and now we’re just grinding through the actual production process. [We just had] our 100th day of performance capture out of a 175-day schedule. That’s two movies combined.

 

 

so performance capture is just under 60% done at this point, there's probably some live action to be done also (I assume) 

 

It means the first movie will have almost 2 years and a half of post production for VFX which is absolutely insane.

[Lothar]

4 minutes ago, The Futurist said:

It means the first movie will have almost 2 years and a half of post production for VFX which is absolutely insane.

Makes me even more excited 

[Stewart]

4 minutes ago, The Futurist said:

It means the first movie will have almost 2 years and a half of post production for VFX which is absolutely insane.

Assuming the film will be about 2.5 hours long, that's about 60 minutes of footage per year.

 

Further, if assuming there's 60 fps, that's 216k frames, which means they're effectively working on every frame for about 1 minute (assuming 12 hours 7 days a week).

 

Given they probably have maybe 100s of VFX artists working on this, they could literally hand-draw every frame.

 

This just fills me with confidence that every frame can be perfected, allowing for no irregularities in the CGI.

 

Get ready to see the best CGI in your life.

[IronJimbo]

9 minutes ago, Lothar said:

Makes me even more excited 

Honestly the excitement for IW makes me a little jealous because I just can't get behind Marvel films.

 

Avatar is over 950 days away still... my god when it's released it's going to be nuts though. We're going to see what 11 years of Jim progress looks like.

Edited May 2, 2018 by IronJimbo

[Lothar]

1 minute ago, feasby007 said:

Get ready to see the best CGI in your life.

[IronJimbo]

4 minutes ago, feasby007 said:

Assuming the film will be about 2.5 hours long, that's about 60 minutes of footage per year.

 

Further, if assuming there's 60 fps, that's 216k frames, which means they're effectively working on every frame for about 1 minute (assuming 12 hours 7 days a week).

 

Given they probably have maybe 100s of VFX artists working on this, they could literally hand-draw every frame.

 

This just fills me with confidence that every frame can be perfected, allowing for no irregularities in the CGI.

 

Get ready to see the best CGI in your life.

No doubt about it, no one whose like Jim is being given the money to push boundaries. It's sad really.

[LaughingEvans]

5 minutes ago, feasby007 said:

Get ready to see the best CGI in your life.

 

I trust that Cameron will deliver, but the 60fps point will not really help, high frame rates make CGI look very uncunny valley.

[IronJimbo]

2 minutes ago, LaughingEvans said:

 

I trust that Cameron will deliver, but the 60fps point will not really help, high frame rates make CGI look very uncunny valley.

It's actually going to be dynamic FPS, with higher FPS added to scenes with lots of motion.

[dashrendar44]

3 hours ago, The Futurist said:

It means the first movie will have almost 2 years and a half of post production for VFX which is absolutely insane.

 

I'm pretty much convinced after that Flight Of Passage ride video that Cameron asked the VFX teams to build 360° full CGI photorealistic environments mapping the Pandora's world in which the stories will take place like some giant VR playground made just for him. They basically built Pandora from the inside out stored in computers farm so Cameron can free ride wherever he wants with his camera, put his mocap actors anywhere and the rough end result appear in real time as he shoots around at random. (On Avatar, Cameron could watch a rough render of the actors as Na'vis on his monitor as they were live performing simultaneously on the volume set but it was really low poly and animatic like. Now imagine with next-gen graphics...).

 

In the VFX world, they think like live shooting, you don't model and render sets that don't appear on camera angles to save time and money. Cameron is like "Make Pandora a giant photorealistic map for me to play inside in 360° HFR"

 

That's crazy.

 

 

Edited May 2, 2018 by dashrendar44

[IronJimbo]

10 minutes ago, dashrendar44 said:

 

I'm pretty much convinced after that Flight Of Passage ride video that Cameron asked the VFX teams to build 360° full CGI photorealistic environments mapping the Pandora's world in which the stories will take place like some giant VR playground made just for him. They basically built Pandora from the inside out stored in computers farm so Cameron can free ride wherever he wants with his camera, put his mocap actors anywhere and the rough end result appear in real time as he shoots around at random. (On Avatar, Cameron could watch a rough render of the actors as Na'vis on his monitor as they were live performing simultaneously but it was really low poly and animatic like. Now imagine with next-gen graphics...).

 

In the VFX world, they think like live shooting, you don't model and render sets that don't appear on camera angles to save time and money. Cameron is like "Make Pandora a giant photorealistic map for me to play inside in HFR"

 

That's crazy.

 

 

He has more control than ever before with his 16 cameras for performance capture. We also know he's got the biggest data farm used for a film ever.

 

Get this, in post processing he can change the angle of the scene, add a closeup, top down view, do whatever. It's nuts.

Edited May 2, 2018 by IronJimbo

[dashrendar44]

2 hours ago, IronJimbo said:

He has more control than ever before with his 16 cameras for performance capture. We also now he's got the biggest data farm used for a film ever.

 

Get this, in post processing he can change the angel of the scene. add a closeup.. do whatever. It's nuts.

I think he can now do it on the spot with his Simulcam tool.

 

At 5:12:

 

 

Yeah, that's the thing that most people didn't understand why Avatar was touted as a "revolution" in moviemaking and all they could muster is "Muh Avatar not revolutionary, it's Ferngully/Smurfs/Dance with Pocahontas in space". The revolution was mostly behind the scenes for the artists.

 

Basically, there are no cameras rigs that take hours to set up with the according lighting to cover specific angles that are needed because if the director came up with a new angle on the spot or changed his mind, it takes whole unforeseen hours for the DoP, camera operator, gaffer and assistants to set that new angle up, the actors to prepare in between takes required per angles etc.

 

James Cameron just has to put his actors on a  set, let them act a whole scene, perf cap cameras record their whole performances (body movements and facial expressions in one go), uncut. Then, Cameron can watch those performances projected in a 360° virtual environment from every angles for him to zoom in/out, pan in/out, close-ups, handheld, steadicam, travelling, dolly, change focals etc. toying with a virtual camera without altering nor reshooting those performances to get those angles on the spot. Because he can set his camera everywhere on the set on a whim without uttering "CUT".

 

Only the people that know how a pain in the ass and time-consuming the "normal process" of moviemaking production and post-production is can assess how Avatar's moviemaking method is innovative: production, post-production and editing are intertwined right on the set and not consecutively. That's why Spielberg and Jackson went apeshit trying to play with that simulcam as well. Shout out to Robert Zemeckis that actually had to pioneer and experiment to convince his peers how that could change the blockbuster directing game. The audience didn't understand back then and most still don't.

Edited May 2, 2018 by dashrendar44

[MrGlass2]

4 hours ago, IronJimbo said:

No doubt about it, no one whose like Jim is being given the money to push boundaries. It's sad really.

I would argue Villeneuve was given the money for BR2049, and pushed boundaries with that movie.

 

What is sad is the result at the box office.

[IronJimbo]

11 minutes ago, MrGlass2 said:

I would argue Villeneuve was given the money for BR2049, and pushed boundaries with that movie.

 

What is sad is the result at the box office.

True it was amazing. Hope they give him cash for dune

[The Futurist]

Blade Runner was almost like a parody :

 

" Look this shit ! Look how artistic it is ! See how Artistic I am ! I make Art ! I am an AUTEUR CAPITAL"

[Lothar]

Zoe Saldana recently gave an interview about her character Gamora in Avengers: Infinity War with the LA Times,

 

“We are just about finishing motion capture production on the [second and third] movies, and then after that, they go straight into pre-production for the live-action part that will shoot for six months in New Zealand. So we’re kind of only halfway done. [Laughs] It’s wonderful. We’re not complaining. We get to drive every day to Manhattan Beach and go to Pandora with our favorite director and my most favorite role model in this town.

I know I can speak for Sam Worthington right now, we are exhilarated — we get to be up against Sigourney Weaver and Stephen Lang, and we’re working with an amazing cast who are finally getting the opportunity to work with James Cameron. We are having a lot of fun.”

 

https://geektyrant.com/news/update-on-avatar-2-provided-by-zoe-saldana

 

Spoiler ???

Sigourney Weaver as a Villain ?