Potter - when will it get the recognition it deserves? FFS

[baumer]

And another thing. Since when did a movie have to be allegorical and symbolic in order to be good?If that was the case then the movie The Cook The Thief His Wife and her Lover is the best film ever made.http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/19990101/REVIEWS/901010301/1023

[Noctis]

And another thing. Since when did a movie have to be allegorical and symbolic in order to be good?If that was the case then the movie The Cook The Thief His Wife and her Lover is the best film ever made.http://rogerebert.su.../901010301/1023

I didn't say it had to be, because it clearly doesn't. 48156Lost started the political discussion.

[baumer]

Potter has had more of an impact on other parts of the world, this is a fact, as well. And that's including the OT admissions. United Kingdom, Japan (not even a contest there), China, France, Germany (WAY more for Potter), Australia...and various other countries.You seem to think it's just the movies. The Potter books are WAY bigger than the films, and that's saying an enormous deal. You'll see soon enough why the Potter books will end up having a significantly larger impact than Star Wars ever could.

SW's (OT) numbers domestically destroy Potter's numbers WW. Add in the OT's international numbers and it's not a contest. Scoop of chocolate scoop of vanilla, don't waste my time.

[Noctis]

No, you're clearly vapid if you think the OT has beaten Potter in every overseas country. If you're going to be a child and ignore the facts, then so be it. Your choice if you can't handle the truth.

[baumer]

I didn't say it had to be, because it clearly doesn't. 48156Lost started the political discussion.

But you bring it up all the time. You always point to the symbolism in Potter as one of it's great characteristics. Big deal if it touches on the Holocaust like themes. You know what else did? V, the mini series in the 80's. That would make it a much better work of art than Potter.SW>V > Potter

[baumer]

No, you're clearly vapid if you think the OT has beaten Potter in every overseas country. If you're going to be a child and ignore the facts, then so be it. Your choice if you can't handle the truth.

It has. And that was when overseas markets were not nearly as big as they are right now.

[Noctis]

It has. And that was when overseas markets were not nearly as big as they are right now.

No, it hasn't. Many countries Potter has beaten it significantly in admissions.Secondly, why are you such a hypocrite? The domestic market is not nearly as large as it used to be before in terms of admissions.

[Heretic]

It's funny when you think how long this has gone on for, including the many, many 'wars' on BOM. Yet, both sides still hold exactly the same views... I guess we have to accept the fact you just can't change someone's opinion, no matter how hard you pursue it.

[Noctis]

It's funny when you think how long this has gone on for, including the many, many 'wars' on BOM. Yet, both sides still hold exactly the same views... I guess we have to accept the fact you just can't change someone's opinion, no matter how hard you pursue it.

It would be epic if someone dressed as Harry Potter would throw baumer into an ocean and scream "SHARK!"

[baumer]

It's funny when you think how long this has gone on for, including the many, many 'wars' on BOM. Yet, both sides still hold exactly the same views... I guess we have to accept the fact you just can't change someone's opinion, no matter how hard you pursue it.

I think we'll leave it at that today.Best post of the day.

[mattmav45]

Ok, look......both SW and HP are pretty similar series overall. They are entertaining, but suffer mostly because the fans are annoying as hell, IMO.There simply isn't much depth to either series, contrary to what the delusional fanboys may assert.

[baumer]

Even though I don't agree with mattmav about the SW part of his post, it's still a funny post, and I like it.

[Jessie]

He doesn't understand this very simple difference and he thinks I'm an idiot.

There's no thinking about it.

[Noctis]

There's no thinking about it.

No, he isn't the idiot. You're REALLY reminding me of Pointman right now it's almost uncanny.

[baumer]

There's no thinking about it.

Why is it so hard for some people to co-exist without being abrasive?

[The Creator]

My rebuttal: Voldemort and the Death Eaters are just a modern take on Nazism and eugenics, which has been a major literary well for writers since 1945, so, nothing really in the modern relevance department compared to the PT's depiction of the death of democracy by popuar demand.Anyone today can write a story about race/ethnic/blood-based bigotry and everyone will nod their head and go "yep that's bad" because it's been drilled into popular subconcious for almost 70 years. Is it a good theme, sure, but it's not that hard to use and evoke emotions with and doesn't bring anything new to the table.

Yes, yes very valid points. I wasn't intending on disputing them or your solid thesis. In fact I used to be a Star Wars fan and I not deny its prominence (and in fact I think it is certainly more impactful, at least in American society, than Potter is), but this is a fun debate after all, and my continuance to my argument:You are right in saying that Star Wars redefined the idea of "death of democracy", but it's only so because it was the first major film or series of its kind to do so. However, that concept has predated Star Wars for decades (centuries, if you take into account certain texts I'll mention). I know it's a bit of an obscure one, but one that's really sticking to me is the movie Metropolis from 1928, a silent German language movie from Fritz Lang that explores a future society whose government has abandoned democratic roots in favor of a totalitarian regime. Star Wars may have popularized the "death of democracy" theme because the saga was so massively famous, but it certainly didn't invent it any more than Harry Potter could have invented the theme of racism and Holocaust references. I would argue that the Prequel Trilogy's depiction of "death of democracy by popular demand" is not wholly relevant today. Although America has been called the New Rome, democracy is still very much alive and I don't see it fading any time soon. Of course any movie or story that acts as dystopic fiction to describe a future society bent on anarchy or dystopia in an utopian facade can be deemed relevant and awe-inspiring, and even moving and significant, but I think it unlikely that our world, as advanced as it is, will allow the death of democracy, and that totalitarianism, while evident in many places world over, is not as big a plague on society in general as prejudice.Prejudice is a theme that has been explored and raped by so many works, so of course Harry Potter doesn't add much new to that. But it still helps bear that message that we're really all the same and that prejudice is unjust and cruel but exists in all societies (which further unites us to the cause of eradication for we truly all face the same prejudices, and that makes us the same), and because Harry Potter is such a massive cultural phenomenon, it definitely does strengthen the recognition of prejudices and the foul nature of discrimination. So while it doesn't present anything new, it helps maintain a very important and emotional theme, and that's why it's significant: because it's such a huge cultural event, more people can experience in unity a sense of shared entertainment and emotional investment in characters who endure the brutal treatment of discrimination and unjustice that reflect the decay of equality that has existed since the dawn of civilization. And today, with wars waged frequently, prejudice remains a growing concern; discrimination against Middle Easterners and practioneers of the Islamic faith surges with anti-Muslim sentiment in many of the worlds leading nations, thanks to the Islamic revivalist movement that has been around since the 1980s and which recently has provoked incredible concerns for the sancity of the human race with fears of nuclear war brewing. The mistreatment and even fear of Middle Easterners, a perspective held by many civilized peoples and non-civilized alike, is a continued example of the power of prejudice to evoke hatred toward a people.

[4815162342]

I would argue that the Prequel Trilogy's depiction of "death of democracy by popular demand" is not wholly relevant today. Although America has been called the New Rome, democracy is still very much alive and I don't see it fading any time soon. I think it unlikely that our world, as advanced as it is, will allow the death of democracy, and that totalitarianism, while evident in many places world over, is not as big a plague on society in general as prejudice.

The Patriot Act and NDAA in the United States in response to 9/11, the Iraq war, etc, Putin's essentially limitless and iron-handed control of Russia as a popularly-elected president, prime minister, and now president again in response to the corrupt and ineffective bureaucracy of the Yelstin era, and so on. The idea of trading civil liberties and democratic ideals for security and efficiency is still very present across major countries of the world todday.

[Plain Old Tele]

This thread is like a broken record.

[Jessie]

No, he isn't the idiot. You're REALLY reminding me of Pointman right now it's almost uncanny.

Maybe I am pointman

[Noctis]

You probably are. How did DH2's $290m and $650m overseas gross work for you?