Potter - when will it get the recognition it deserves? FFS

[Jessie]

The star wars and potter fans need to wait another 20 years or so before you can really compare the 2 from a cultural impact point of view.

[Jessie]

You probably are. How did DH2's $290m and $650m overseas gross work for you?

I predicted 350800 for DH2 so I guess I'm not pointman after all. I may hate potter, but it doesn't mean I'll lower my box office predictions because if it.

[Noctis]

Still $200m off.

[Jessie]

Still $200m off.

Well I didn't expect 2011 to be the year where shit movies earned a killing overseas Edited March 6, 2012 by Jessie

[pinocchio]

The star wars and potter fans need to wait another 20 years or so before you can really compare the 2 from a cultural impact point of view.

No, the Potter fans need to wait another 20 years. SW already passed the test.

[Jessie]

No, the Potter fans need to wait another 20 years. SW already passed the test.

I stand corrected.

[baumer]

My friend decided to let his kids watch SW for the first time on the weekend. They are 5 and 7 years old. The first one he had them watch was Phantom Menace. He figured that because he had the lego game and the bed sheets and other things, might as well start them from the beginning.The were mesmerized. They loved the big fish getting eaten by the bigger fish. They loved Darth Maul and the pod races. And of course they loved Jar Jar. My buddy didn't like Menace as much as the other films but his kids loved it.Maybe that's what a lot of are forgetting. Most of us were kids when we saw SW. There is an innocence about them. Maybe that's why there is so much disconnect with the NT and the OT. Maybe those of you who don't like the NT don't like the kiddie stuff in it. I know people complain about the acting and so on but the originals had some shoddy acting as well. SW is for kids. It's got a lot of adult themed story in it, but R2D2, 3PO, Jar Jar, all the colorful aliens and the "sword fights" are all things kids love. And maybe this is why some of us as adults can't love the new ones like the old ones.....we're too old.

[lab276]

Eh, shame, he should have tried it this way:http://nomachetejuggling.com.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/2011/11/11/the-star-wars-saga-suggested-viewing-order/

[pinocchio]

If you grew up with Potter it defined your childhood; if you grew up with the Beatles it defined your childhood; if you grew up with SW it defined your childhood... It's obvious all those phenomenons are in a similar league regarding first generation cultural impact IMO.

[baumer]

Great point pinocchio.

[Water Bottle]

As a fan of both Harry Potter and Star Wars, I will add this to the conversation: does it really matter which one is more culturally relevant? Can't both series be content with being culturally relevant?

To suggest that Harry Potter is more emotionally moving than Star Wars is a silly argument because scenes that didn't move you in Star Wars might have moved other people-and vice versa. It's all subjective and there is no real way you can argue which film is more emotional in the grand scale of things. Noctis was clearly very moved by Harry Potter and Baumer was very clearly moved by Star Wars. Guess what? Both series have moved me, in different ways that it would be idiotic for me to try and compare them.

As for who has the better themes...umm...neither. Star Wars, the prequels, is essentially a retelling of the fall of the Roman Republic but in space. The original trilogy is essentially the story of the original trilogy is the American Revolution but in space...to argue that Star Wars doesn't have any depth is to be blinded by hatred of the series. Star Wars does have some very good themes. Is it subtle? Not really, but subtetly doesn't make the films any worse or any better.

Let's see what the prequels are about thematically. They are about Anakin Skywalker, a child who was brought out of slavery to become a Jedi, a group of people with special powers beyond that of regular humans. How does Harry Potter begin? A child who is brought out of nothing to become a wizard, a group of people with special powers beyond that of regular humans. The prequels then become a forbidden love story about a man and a woman. The man, Anakin, eventually has dreams of LOSS give him fear. This fear causes him to act irrationally to the point where he tries to do everything to stop the loss from coming. He does lose this person, his mother, and his fear turns to anger. An anger that leads him to wiping out an entire town.

Anakin then learns that he's to become a father. He soon starts to have dreams that his pregnant wife might die. This fear of loss, again, drives him to find a way to keep her alive. It's at this time that the dark side offers him a solution: he can save her, all he has to do is turn to the dark side. IT's kind of like the devil tempting Eve with the apple. Offering intelligence-offering wisdom. It's a lie, of course, but it's a lie that can make someone whose afraid of loss be open to hearing it. Anakin takes some time but as the fear of losing Padme grows in him, he is eventually turned to the dark side (fear is the path to the dark side.) To try and save Padme, Anakin becomes a Sith. He starts acting out, killing Jedi children-suffering. He loses his best friend, Obi-wan Kenobi. The dark side leads him to killing his wife. The reason he turned, was for the fear of losing her. In an attempt to stop destiny and cheat death, he only brings about her death. The dreams weren't something to avoid: he was the person to be avoided. He killed his wife, but not before she could have his twins.

How the fuck is that not deep? How is that not having depth? To be blinded to this depth is to simply not realize that Star Wars, the prequels, is a story about loss and love.

"Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. I sense much fear in you."

It's really what the series is all about. To call it stupid and crap is simply idiotic. You can disagree with it, but the series makes it very clear that fear is often what can cause humans to do stupid shit. It's fear of people that can often lead to hatred-racism is often born out of fear. To argue against this is simply arguing against something that history has proven to be true: fearing the unknown will often cause people to act against their own interests causing suffering. If you honestly can't see how fear can be dangerous, then clearly you must think FDR was a total retard when he said:

"There's nothing to fear but fear itself."

The originals are all about Anakin's son, Luke Skywalker. Luke begins, like Anakin, coming from nothing (this time a farm) to become a Jedi, but this time he's almost alone as a Jedi. There's very few of the Jedi left. There's some thematic material that is explored: when Darth Vader kills Obi Wan Kenobi, it's a moment where evil has seemingly triumphed over good. It's about killing a mentor, about having become better than a teacher. Luke trains to be a Jedi and has some adventures. He meets a wise, old green man: Yoda. He faces Darth Vader in the Dagobah cave, where he faces his great adversary.

The series changes when he learns that Darth Vader is his father. The series goes from being about a man trying to hold together a rebellion to a struggle between two generations: Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker. It's this relationship that defines the rest of the struggle. The struggle goes from being between two strangers, to being between two family members. It's also this connection, this bond, that leads Darth Vader out of his darkness. This entire time, he's been in the dark side because of the loss he had suffered. It's only his son that leads him to redemption-it's his love of his son. He eventually redeems himself and Darth Vader is able to kill the temptor, the devil, the bad guy: the Emperor.

A lot of people may just see Star Wars as movies about aliens and lazer sword fights. But there's a lot more to it than that: it's a story about love and loss, it's a story about how loss can take you to dark places, it's a story about how love can drag you out of of those dark places, it's a story about a father, a story about a son, it's a story about a man and his forbidden love with a woman. It's a story ultimately about how fear can lead you astray, and about how courage can save us. This is what Star Wars is all about: it's about love and loss.

Harry Potter, likewise is more than just a movie series/book series about wizards and flying broomsticks. It's a movie about a little boy with a past. His parents were killed and he's forced to live with relatives who don't really want him. He's eventually told that he's a wizard: that he, a small boy has numerous powers. To a lot of kids, this is a sign that they can be anything. It's noteworthy to note that the first Star Wars movie has that message: that a kid has potential. Harry Potter simply explores it more. Harry Potter grows to learn and each movie has it's own thematic message. The message that rings true throughout the films is Harry Potter having to deal with his legacy (parents killed) while trying to defeat the person who created that legacy (Voldemort.) It's a movie about revenge, really.

Sure, there's the message about how Voldemort is essentially Hitler as a wizard. The series isn't subtle about that either. It's more than that though: it's a story about revenge and loss. You can also argue that it's a story about love, and there is love in the story. But I'll actually disagree there. At least not in the same sense as in Star Wars. Sure, characters couple up, but it's not about that. It's instead a story about FRIENDSHIP. It's a story about platonic love. Harry Potter, by the end, has friends that end up being stubbornly loyal to him. It's also a story about sacrifice: Harry is willing to sacrifice himself to save his friends. To argue that Harry Potter is lacking in depth is just a waste of time.

Both Star Wars and Harry Potter are both emotional stories. Both are rooted in character. As to whose more influential?

To this generation, I'd say Harry Potter. To the previous generation, Star Wars. To movies? Star Wars, without a doubt. It's a movie that has inspired numerous directors, it's a movie that has technically innovated the industry. In America? Star Wars, without a doubt. Star Wars is the quintissential American series. Overseas? It's debatable, since both series are beloved around the world.

Overall, I'd say both films are influential and culturally relevant. Instead of trying to determine which film is more relevant, both films should be celebrated.

[75Live]

^Bravo, sir, bravo Best summary of the whole issue right there.

[Plain Old Tele]

tl;dr

[cookie]

It's really what the series is all about. To call it stupid and crap is simply idiotic. You can disagree with it, but the series makes it very clear that fear is often what can cause humans to do stupid shit. It's fear of people that can often lead to hatred-racism is often born out of fear. To argue against this is simply arguing against something that history has proven to be true: fearing the unknown will often cause people to act against their own interests causing suffering. If you honestly can't see how fear can be dangerous, then clearly you must think FDR was a total retard when he said:

"There's nothing to fear but fear itself."

One of the first things I learned in psychology class is that lack of comfort for a situation or subject is the primary cause for aggression, so I agree that Yoda's line makes perfect sense. I don't know what Noctis is on about.

As for the rest of the post, bravo. If only we could like mod posts...

Edited March 10, 2012 by C00k13

[baumer]

Water Bottle, I think I just fell in love with you, in a purely platonic way of course.That is a brilliant post.

[vc2002]

Websites like RT aren't really good indicators. For example, Titanic is Noctis's fav film right? It's 83% on RT with an average score 7.3 or sth. That doesn't sound like a excellent score, but it won 11 Oscars.RT only chooses reviews from like 200 critics, but Oscars we're talking about 5000 judges. Big differences right here.

Edited March 30, 2012 by vc2002

[Webslinger]

These movies made an unbelievable amount of money and are going to be remembered fondly by their fans for decades to come. So why does having a golden statuette to its name matter? I know one could point at the 11-Oscar triumph of the final Lord of the Rings movie, but those movies wouldn't be any less beloved had said triumph not happened.

Although I love the Harry Potter movies, I do have to admit that I can see why it ultimately went home empty-handed across eight movies. As superlative as the craft work was on the films, I don't think there was a time where it was the best of any given year.

[Noctis]

I loved reading through this thread! HAHA.

[Noctis]

Looking back, I cringe at my obsessive behaviour. Yet, I cringe infinitely more at not understanding the emotional power of Potter.

[MovieMan89]

8 hours ago, Noctis said:

Looking back, I cringe at my obsessive behaviour.

Don't worry, in a post BroadwayFreak BoT world, I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say we all long for the days when you were our resident obsessed and incessant Potter nut.