Fanboy Wars Thread: Personal Attacks not allowed | With Digital Fur Technology

[Subzero]

4 minutes ago, iJackSparrow said:

Well, you and these folks are wrong. The Incredible Hulk is very much part of the MCU, and yes, it started with Iron Man. TIH was released two months afterwards. TIH footage was used in both The Avengers and Civil War. It's reportedly and officially canon. 

 

Was it weird at first? Well, yes. But then everyone got used to him. 

 

I didn't say it wasn't, technically it is but most treated as standalone ...since it was just an out of left field type of deal at the time.

IM1 is where it was much more apparent ...and got folks much invested as a start of something new.

[The Futurist]

37 minutes ago, ddddeeee said:

THR gets sassy.

 

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/ben-affleck-not-returning-as-batman-says-brother-casey-1030107

Click, bitch.

[Captain Craig]

8 minutes ago, Subzero said:

 

Well most folks including myself don't consider Norton Hulk to be part of the MCU or the start of it.

Most consider IM1 was the start of the MCU .... so the hulk replacement is pretty transparent.

Such a dichotomy of errors here.

You and "most" folks are mistaken. The events of TIH(Norton '08) are very much MCU canon.

IM1 is the start of the MCU that's not even a discussion, it's just a fact.

 

You'll need to further explain what you mean by "hulk replacement is pretty transparent". 

 

The real world contractual and creative reasons are why Norton was not brought back. Similar with Edgar Wright, ego and control of the project. 

[Cochofles]

23 minutes ago, Subzero said:

 

Well I don't think freak out is the term, since the DCEU is just in the intial phase, we want to see it move along at least another couple of phase before he calls it quit.

For the MCU it's different since it's already in it's 3rd/4th phase ..and yes eventually all must go ...but this is too soon.

The only ones freaking out are the conspiracy theorists who keep peddling scenarios that fit their own hate-filled narratives about certain directors and certain aesthetics.

Scenarios that continue not coming true, even as these people keep assuring us all that, yes, there are credible sources thathave "confirmed" these shady shenanigans. People are still using THR as "proof" even after their major boo-boo with that "news" about patty Jenkins that she herself said was not true. 

 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2017 by Cochofles

[ZattMurdock]

Just now, Subzero said:

 

I didn't say it wasn't, technically it is but most treated as standalone ...since it was just an out of left field type of deal at the time.

IM1 is where it was much more apparent ...and got folks much invested as a start of something new.

All superhero films are treated as a standalones. I mean, it's not like BvS hammered points of MoS throughout the entire film. 

 

What I think:

 

If Affleck wants out, that's an excellent opportunity to get an younger actor in the role. Armie Hammer would be my favorite choice, and I'm honestly hoping that if Affleck is really gone after JL, that's the actor who is taking over. He's a good actor - arguably with more potential than even Affleck -, similar height, similar build, similar but younger face. The audiences - and the fans - will get over. Just like they forgot about Garfield as soon as Holland said "Hey, everyone" in Civil War. 

[Premium George]

Removal of hulk actor is not same as batman actor at all. If during IM2, rumors about RDJ leaving came out, marvel fanboys including me has lot their shit. Stop making false equavalance.

I do agree with you though that this is just a news and anybody should not take this to heart.

[ZattMurdock]

2 minutes ago, damnitgeorge08 said:

Removal of hulk actor is not same as batman actor at all. If during IM2, rumors about RDJ leaving came out, marvel fanboys including me has lot their shit. Stop making false equavalance.

I do agree with you though that this is just a news and anybody should not take this to heart.

I know I wouldn't. Hell, I actually thought he'd be out after The Avengers. These characters are bigger than any actors playing them. 

[Premium George]

1 minute ago, iJackSparrow said:

I know I wouldn't. Hell, I actually thought he'd be out after The Avengers. These characters are bigger than any actors playing them. 

You are not all. You seriously put marvel fanboys on pedestal.

[ZattMurdock]

Just now, damnitgeorge08 said:

You are not all. You seriously put marvel fanboys on pedestal.

Of course I don't. I just think that there's evidence of this happening in the MCU before and it wasn't not even close to this. If it happens, it happens. That's all I'm saying. Regardless how hypotetically MCU fanboys would/will react, what I'm saying is that not something worth fretting over. 

[Subzero]

4 minutes ago, Captain Craig said:

Such a dichotomy of errors here.

You and "most" folks are mistaken. The events of TIH(Norton '08) are very much MCU canon.

IM1 is the start of the MCU that's not even a discussion, it's just a fact.

 

You'll need to further explain what you mean by "hulk replacement is pretty transparent". 

 

The real world contractual and creative reasons are why Norton was not brought back. Similar with Edgar Wright, ego and control of the project. 

 

I explained it couple of post up. Yes I realized that Norton hulk was part of the MCU.

But it was the very beginning and hardly had any tie in, IM1 to me was where everything starts and the big tie in with BlackWidow/Shield etc...

For Ben is different, he went and started the League ...seeking out Flash and the rest of the gang etc... that's a big deal. So that's what I meant transparent ... For those of us who follow very closely would know this ... but for the casual audiences not sure if they really know or cares.

[Mojoguy]

Removal of hulk actor is not same as batman actor at all. If during IM2, rumors about RDJ leaving came out, marvel fanboys including me has lot their shit. Stop making false equavalance.

It's not a removal if Affleck himself wants to stop playing Batman. WB might not have any other choice but to recast.

[ZattMurdock]

1 minute ago, Mojoguy said:

It's not a removal if Affleck himself wants to stop playing Batman. WB might not have any other choice but to recast.

Norton was considered "not a good team player" back then. Reports of him fighting with TIH's director back then were swirling left and right. Probably all true. Since he did the promo for that film looking pissed as fuck. 

[Barnack]

15 minutes ago, iJackSparrow said:

If Affleck wants out, that's an excellent opportunity to get an younger actor in the role. Armie Hammer would be my favorite choice, and I'm honestly hoping that if Affleck is really gone after JL, that's the actor who is taking over. He's a good actor - arguably with more potential than even Affleck -, similar height, similar build, similar but younger face. The audiences - and the fans - will get over. Just like they forgot about Garfield as soon as Holland said "Hey, everyone" in Civil War. 

There was no crossover or any link of any sort between Garfield spiderman and any MCU entry too.

 

It would be a bit different to have a different Batman interacting with the same Gadot Wonder Woman, Iron Alfred, Cavill Superman, etc.... specially in a DCEU movie marathon.

 

Those really establish for a long time character like batman/superman/spiderman/Bond are easy to recast for sure, but in a constant movie universe it would not be just like previous example, there is a little bit more resistance than usual, it would call more attention to itself.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Barnack

[Mojoguy]

Hulk and War Machine were recast after they were just in one movie, so I'd imagine there was less resistance to the new actors.

[ZattMurdock]

Here's the nitty and gritty of what happened with Norton in TIH and why he left the role:

 

Spoiler

 

Quote

Okay, you’ve heard the rumors of the behind-the-scenes battle between Marvel and star Edward Norton over The Incredible Hulk. I’ve been getting a lot of emails asking me to explain what exactly happened. Here is what I know/have heard or gathered:

 

Edward Norton turned down the project when he was first approached but Marvel insisted that he meet with director Louis Leterrier, and Norton relented. At the meeting Norton offered his version of The Hulk story, and Marvel agreed to hire a screenwriter to work with him on a rewrite of Zak Penn‘s draft. But no screenwriter was ever hired and Norton did a substantial page-one rewrite by himself. Anne Thompson explains: “With about two months to go before the movie started filming, Norton did a page one rewrite–knowing that he couldn’t do anything radical, because sets were being built, locations found, etc. The entire Brazil sequence was already story-boarded.” Norton added a lot of dialogue and character motivation, and Marvel agreed to shoot Norton’s draft of the screenplay.

 

After production was completed, Leterrier put together “an assembly” of the film, which basically included everything that was shot. The director explained to Collider: “It’s called a suicide run because it’s absolutely horrible. You want to commit suicide after you see it.”

 

 

Marvel decided they wanted make a shorter, more action-packed cut of the film, discarding a lot of the character development pieces that Norton had brought to the screenplay.

“So after this we had a meeting—just like this—like a round table where I go okay we have to find solutions. And then we were screaming stuff and everything. Maybe somebody walked in, a PA or somebody walked in, somebody who’s not used to it and we’re having a conversation and Edward was like…no, Edward’s very vocal.”

Norton was understandably pissed. He was brought onto the project under the premise that he would have considerable creative control. But the final cut was, of course, not his. Norton and Leterrier lobbied for a more nuanced cut of the film that ran about two hours and 15-20 minutes, but Marvel stuck to their guns.

“Everyone was exhausted; it was like a little burst. ‘’I’m angry with you!’’ ‘’No, I’m angry with you!’’ And me in the center saying ‘’Boys, calm down.’’ It didn’t come to blows. It was just a remark here and there, then it became public,” Leterrier told EW.

Nikki Finke’s Deadline Hollywood Daily ran the story on the Norton/Marvel blow up.

 

“The next day when the Nikki Finke…Nicky Fink or whatever her name is…article came out, Edward was right next to me. He’s like ‘you want to laugh?’ I’m like, ‘Yeah, what’s up?’ ‘Read this’.”

A day later, Norton even showed up to do ADR work on the film. Leterrier told Collider that 70 minutes of deleted footage is set to be released on the inevitable Bluray release. (Leterrier describes the out-takes: “It’s like the back story. It’s more the sequel to the Ang Lee movie.”)

“I regret that [Marvel and Norton] didn’t come to an agreement where we could’ve all worked together,” Leterrier explained to Entertainment Weekly. “The press is what kept Edward and Marvel from talking to each other. [The argument] was nothing, but then it became something big.”

Norton’s script opened with a suicide scene in the Arctic. While the scene added a lot of depth to Norton’s character, giving you a greater understanding of just how much he wanted to get rid of his curse. I’ve heard that the scene is included in the video game adaptation. A couple reasons why Marvel may have exorcized the scene from the final cut:

 

1. It added an extra five minutes to the beginning of the film, and in effect pushed the first appearance of The Hulk to page 26/27 of the script (or about a half hour into the actual film). Hollywood’s reasoning is that with a movie titled “The Incredible Hulk”, mainstream audiences want to see Te Hulk as soon as possible. I tend to disagree. I think that one of the reasons Richard Donnor’s Superman is so great is for it’s extended origin story. It builds to the first climactic moment when you see Christopher Reeves in the Red and Blue suit. And lets not forget Jaws…

 

2. It undermines the moment that Penn wrote where Bruce Banner jumps out of the helicopter, not knowing if he would survive. The risk was removed from that scene.

 

3. Suicide is less accessible and not family friendly.

 

Norton’s flashback sequences were also cut from the film, including a sequence with Banner having a sit down conversation with a Doc Samson, which can be seen in the trailers. The storyline with Banner finding a serum in the Amazon and his computer conversations with Mr. Blue (Tim Blake Nelson) were some of Norton’s storyline additions that remained in the final cut.

 

Marvel submitted both Zak Penn’s and Edward Norton’s (under a pseudonym, Edward Harrison) drafts to the Writers’ Guild for arbitration. Penn also wrote a letter to the WGA insisting that Norton had not considerably changed his screenplay. Members of the Guild follow a formula for determining the credits. An original writer must contribute at least one-third of the final screenplay to receive credit. If subsequent writers labor on an original screenplay as script doctors, they must contribute more than half of the final screenplay to receive credit. The Guild compares the final cut of the film against both drafts, favoring story and characters over dialogue. And as I said before, most of Norton’s changes were dialogue driven. The conclusion was that Penn would get sole screenplay credit. Zak Penn’s original script was also said to include two pivotal scenes from his 16-year-old screenplay attempt: Bruce Banner jumping out of a helicopter, and the scene where Banner tries to get intimate with Betty, but his rising heart rate becomes an issue.

Edward Norton released the following statement to Entertainment Weekly:

 

“Like so many people I’ve loved the story of The Hulk since I was a kid, so it was thrilling when Marvel asked me to write and help produce an altogether new screen incarnation, as well as play Bruce Banner. I grew up reading Marvel Comics and always loved the mythic dimension and contemporary themes in the stories, and I’m proud of the script I wrote. In every phase of production, including the editing, working with Louis Leterrier has been wonderful…I’ve never had a better partner, and the collaboration with all the rest of the creative team has been terrific. Every good movie gets forged through collaboration, and different ideas among people who are all committed and respect the validity of each other’s opinions is the heart of filmmaking. Regrettably, our healthy process, which is and should be a private matter, was misrepresented publicly as a ‘dispute,’ seized on by people looking for a good story, and has been distorted to such a degree that it risks distracting from the film itself, which Marvel, Universal and I refuse to let happen. It has always been my firm conviction that films should speak for themselves and that knowing too much about how they are made diminishes the magic of watching them. All of us believe The Incredible Hulk will excite old fans and create new ones and be a huge hit…our focus has always been to deliver the Hulk that people have been waiting for and keep the worldwide love affair with the big green guy going strong.”

 

EW’s sources say Norton, worried about being unfairly branded “a pain in the ass” by the press, conceded to Marvel’s cut, which even though it wasn’t what he wanted, he understood would be more commercial.

Edward Norton is supporting the film, and doing select press. Liv Tyler, Tim Blake Nelson and Louis Leterrier have contract stipulations for two sequels, if Marvel wanted to bring them back. Norton’s contract doesn’t have any such stipulations. Even if a sequel isn’t greenlit, The Hulk will return in the upcoming Superhero team-up film The Avengers. However, I’d be shocked if Norton returned to reprise the role of Bruce Banner.

 

 

 

 

 

Source: http://www.slashfilm.com/the-truth-about-edward-norton-vs-marvel/

[Premium George]

4 minutes ago, Mojoguy said:

Hulk and War Machine were recast after they were just in one movie, so I'd imagine there was less resistance to the new actors.

Again these are very small characters. Nobody cares if dario or mountain are replaced but if jon snow actor is replaced, everyone will lose their minds. How difficult it is to understand that?

[Mojoguy]

Those really establish for a long time character like batman/superman/spiderman/Bond are easy to recast for sure, but in a constant movie universe it would not be just like previous example, there is a little bit more resistance than usual, it would call more attention to itself.

Marvel will have to recast some of the MCU characters after Avengers 4, it's inevitable.

Or Marvel will have to reboot their entire universe, which I think would gain much more backlash.

[ZattMurdock]

Just now, damnitgeorge08 said:

Again these are very small characters. Nobody cares if dario or mountain are replaced but if jon snow actor is replaced, everyone will lose their minds. How difficult it is to understand that?

Hulk is a small character? 

[Premium George]

2 minutes ago, iJackSparrow said:

Here's the nitty and gritty of what happened with Norton in TIH and why he left the role:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

 

 

Source: http://www.slashfilm.com/the-truth-about-edward-norton-vs-marvel/

And why are you telling us that?

[Premium George]

Just now, iJackSparrow said:

Hulk is a small character? 

Yes. Edward Norton hulk was a small character. Smaller than present ant man.