SNOW WHITE | 03.21.2025 | Disney

[Ipickthiswhiterose]

1 hour ago, WittyUsername said:

I mean, there is an argument to be made that Snow White in the original film is too passive a protagonist. 

 

See my last post.

 

Princesses as rendered in fairy-tale stories tended to be passive from 1935ish-1955ish.

 

Which is why they were restlessly critiqued from the 30s onwards, and especially from the 60s onwards and why there are several remakes of those stories, including one notable one literally of Snow White, that makes Snow White have much more agency.

 

But the makers and stars of the film are acting like giving Princesses more agency is something they themselves are the first people to notice and do something about.

 

When Princesses with plenty of agency have been around since the 60s and have been the norm since the 90s. And also had agency in the original stories that the 30s to 50s were mere adaptations of.

 

 As grim identified above, this dynamic is so silly and so played out that the Beauty and the Beast film tried to take Belle - who is so fundamentally designed as an outsider who has her own agency and doesn't care how she's perceived that it is the LITERAL CORE DEFINITIONAL TRAIT OF THE CHARACTER - and give her "more" agency by some of the most arbitrary nonsense you can imagine.

 

It's not that nobody agrees Snow White was too passive in the 30s. Everyone pretty much agrees on that. It's that there's nothing interesting there because everyone has agreed on that for half a century and now, if you listen to some of the statement, there is also increasingly an unhelpful conflation between "is passive" and "is feminine and has some traditional feminine goals". Which is what I think Valonqar was pointing out.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Ipickthiswhiterose

[WittyUsername]

17 minutes ago, Ipickthiswhiterose said:

 

See my last post.

 

Princesses as rendered in fairy-tale stories tended to be passive from 1935ish-1955ish.

 

Which is why they were restlessly critiqued from the 30s onwards, and especially from the 60s onwards and why there are several remakes of those stories, including one notable one literally of Snow White, that makes Snow White have much more agency.

 

But the makers and stars of the film are acting like giving Princesses more agency is something they themselves are the first people to notice and do something about.

 

When Princesses with plenty of agency have been around since the 60s and have been the norm since the 90s. And also had agency in the original stories that the 30s to 50s were mere adaptations of.

 

 As grim identified above, this dynamic is so silly and so played out that the Beauty and the Beast film tried to take Belle - who is so fundamentally designed as an outsider who has her own agency and doesn't care how she's perceived that it is the LITERAL CORE DEFINITIONAL TRAIT OF THE CHARACTER - and give her "more" agency by some of the most arbitrary nonsense you can imagine.

 

It's not that nobody agrees Snow White was too passive in the 30s. Everyone pretty much agrees on that. It's that there's nothing interesting there because everyone has agreed on that for half a century and now, if you listen to some of the statement, there is also increasingly an unhelpful conflation between "is passive" and "is feminine and has some traditional feminine goals". Which is what I think Valonqar was pointing out.

Oh, I’m not trying to dispute the argument that Disney’s constant attempts to pat themselves on the back is lame, and I don’t have any real interest or faith in this movie in general. I just don’t see why people are getting so mad at Rachel Zegler in particular. 

Edited August 15, 2023 by WittyUsername

[MovieMan89]

Snow is canonically 14 years old in 1937 yet essentially treated as a married adult by the end. Not to mention the controversy with the Prince’s age, where some have claimed he’s 31 in the movie (though I think Disney finally gave an official source of 18 some years ago). Of course it’s outdated, why would anyone give Zegler crap for that? 
 

As I’ve said before, I don’t look forward to the marketing campaign for this with a Latina Snow White given what we had to go through with TLM crap. 

[ringedmortality]

My thesis for my English major, which was my second major, was on Disney Princesses and their depiction of femininity and how they changed throughout time.

 

I can't remember a fucking thing about it because I wrote it over the course of two days during the pandemic. But Snow White, Cinderella, and Aurora are basically the same character. They have zero personality and zero control over their stories. That's part of their charm if anything, how simplistic and old fashioned they were.

 

The best of all of them is Sleeping Beauty anyway, it's like a painting come to life.

[Ipickthiswhiterose]

15 minutes ago, MovieMan89 said:

Of course it’s outdated, why would anyone give Zegler crap for that? 
 

 

L-i-t-e-r-a-l-l-y written two extended posts explaining exactly that. 

 

It's not about arguing the original isn't outdated. How many times do folks have to say that? Do we now just permanently live in a world where people are only capable of hearing others say or write what they pre-assume they're going to write?

[MovieMan89]

1 hour ago, Ipickthiswhiterose said:

 

L-i-t-e-r-a-l-l-y written two extended posts explaining exactly that. 

 

It's not about arguing the original isn't outdated. How many times do folks have to say that? Do we now just permanently live in a world where people are only capable of hearing others say or write what they pre-assume they're going to write?

Why are you hung up on the fact that the 1937 film hasn’t been the “formula” for these movies for awhile? She’s talking about the OG film, not the genre on the whole. Who cares? And how do you know the character won’t be her own unique character  just because she’s going to be more empowered like most other more modern Disney heroines? Have you seen the movie?
 

Also, it doesn’t matter either if she’s never seen the original and isn’t a fan. If she’s a fan of the script for this film and passionate about it, that’s all that matters since it’s obvious this movie is not going for “faithful adaptation” of the animated anyways. 

[dudalb]

On 8/13/2023 at 2:03 PM, Ryan Reynolds said:

apparently , but it just makes me want to watch the original now, have not seen it in decades

It's on Disney Plus, seeing it is not that difficult.

[dudalb]

I rewatched the original on Disney Plus and it is outdated and clumsy in many ways.

Not that every film from the 30's is outdated. The 1938 Errol Flynn "Robin Hood" stands up beautifully.

And "Fantasia" remaind, IMHO the mastepriece of Classic Disney Animation..

The fuss about this film is ridiculouos.

I have NEVER liked the Disney live action remakes of anitmated films. They have all been mediocre at best, with none of the charm of the oriiginal and that whole species of film could vanish and not get a tear from me.But the fuss over this film is idiotic.

I don't get the Ziegler hate.

The Conspriacy Theoris about  this film are just plain assinine. The usualy point before release when markertiing starts if nowhere near close. And what can they do, anyway, as long as the strike is on/

Edited August 15, 2023 by dudalb

[PlatnumRoyce]

4 hours ago, MovieMan89 said:

Why are you hung up on the fact that the 1937 film hasn’t been the “formula” for these movies for awhile? She’s talking about the OG film, not the genre on the whole. Who cares? And how do you know the character won’t be her own unique character  just because she’s going to be more empowered like most other more modern Disney heroines? Have you seen the movie?

 

 

Actors saying stuff on press tours promoting their film is a massive part of $100M-$150M marketing campaigns. The people who sell you movies tell you to care about this sort of stuff. Asking "how do you know that..." is valid on one level (people are ludicrously overconfident when talking about a film that hasn't even started its marketing campaign)^1 but on another misses that this is "car salewoman Ziegler" talking about what's great about the new upcoming 2024 model. These are intentionally public statements not hot mike moments. 

But yeah, focus on Ziegler as an individual is weird...and really dumb. The general outline of what she said was clearly part of Disney's marketing plan for the film (see how Gadot basically mirrors this sentiment) and the quote that was "resurfaced" came from a major initial promotional event (Disney ...expo or something). Even if you dislike what she said, it's not like this reads as against marketing pitch the dealership passed out. 


^1 does anyone even know the vague budget of this film? Knowing it was $200M or $100M pretty significantly changes what you can infer from tiny scraps of information we currently have. 

 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2023 by PlatnumRoyce

[wildphantom]

“Outdated and clumsy in many ways”

never thought I’d hear the day when anybody could honestly say that about one of the greatest films ever made. 

[Liiviig 1998]

14 hours ago, Ipickthiswhiterose said:

 

See my last post.

 

Princesses as rendered in fairy-tale stories tended to be passive from 1935ish-1955ish.

 

Which is why they were restlessly critiqued from the 30s onwards, and especially from the 60s onwards and why there are several remakes of those stories, including one notable one literally of Snow White, that makes Snow White have much more agency.

 

But the makers and stars of the film are acting like giving Princesses more agency is something they themselves are the first people to notice and do something about.

 

When Princesses with plenty of agency have been around since the 60s and have been the norm since the 90s. And also had agency in the original stories that the 30s to 50s were mere adaptations of.

 

 As grim identified above, this dynamic is so silly and so played out that the Beauty and the Beast film tried to take Belle - who is so fundamentally designed as an outsider who has her own agency and doesn't care how she's perceived that it is the LITERAL CORE DEFINITIONAL TRAIT OF THE CHARACTER - and give her "more" agency by some of the most arbitrary nonsense you can imagine.

 

It's not that nobody agrees Snow White was too passive in the 30s. Everyone pretty much agrees on that. It's that there's nothing interesting there because everyone has agreed on that for half a century and now, if you listen to some of the statement, there is also increasingly an unhelpful conflation between "is passive" and "is feminine and has some traditional feminine goals". Which is what I think Valonqar was pointing out.

 

But at the end of the day ,whatever changes are made should actually contribute to making a good movie. If the movie is shit ,it would just be embarrassing after all the shade they've thrown  at the original.

 

 Zegler sharing her criticisms on the original while on PR campaign.

 

 That's just not good PR on Disney's end.

 

 

 

 

[WorkingonaName]

Seeking Pascal and Paul on this just makes me want Greatest Showman 2 more. 

[Liiviig 1998]

Yeah the clip with Gadot was fine . Classic Disney PR there was nothing much to talk about there.

 

Hadn't seen the one where she makes " stalking" comments. That one was pretty bad. She really comes of as smug and annoying.

 

Another clip saying she was scared to watch the movie and she hadn't done it since she was 5 .okay..

 

Like portions of this clips should just have been edited out .

 

Actors will always say weird or unintentionally offensive stuff while on the cuff but whoever is handling PR for this is terrible.

 

But again if the actress really feels that way about the original .why hire her for the role ? 

 

Halle looked genuinely exited to play Ariel and generally all her PR was positive

 

Like seriously were they going to let her say all those negative remarks about the original  for the whole Campaign or something.. ..

 

 

[JustLurking]

13 minutes ago, Liiviig 1998 said:

Yeah the clip with Gadot was fine . Classic Disney PR there was nothing much to talk about there.

 

Hadn't seen the one where she makes " stalking" comments. That one was pretty bad. She really comes of as smug and annoying.

 

Another clip saying she was scared to watch the movie and she hadn't done it since she was 5 .okay..

 

Like portions of this clips should just have been edited out .

 

Actors will always say weird or unintentionally offensive stuff while on the cuff but whoever is handling PR for this is terrible.

 

But again if the actress really feels that way about the original .why hire her for the role ? 

 

Halle looked genuinely exited to play Ariel and generally all her PR was positive

 

Like seriously were they going to let her say all those negative remarks about the original  for the whole Campaign or something.. ..

 

 

there's nothing in there even remotely offensive, people are just looking for anything to be offended or mad about nowadays

 

if your proposal is to only get the most vanilla paper-cut interviews then I wonder why we even need interviews at all

[toutvabien]

None of this race-bending talk would even be happening if this came out in 2014 or 2012 with all these other Snow White reimaginings.

[Liiviig 1998]

21 minutes ago, JustLurking said:

there's nothing in there even remotely offensive, people are just looking for anything to be offended or mad about nowadays

 

if your proposal is to only get the most vanilla paper-cut interviews then I wonder why we even need interviews at all

The stalking comments on the second clip were not true though. That didn't happen in the film. 

 

Gadot clip has been out for like a month now. Didn't stir up as much shit . It's that second clip that has set things ablaze.

 It's the one that should have been edited out.

 

Once again throwing criticism at the original while promoting your current project makes one come off as proud and like "I'm so better than you" vibe which is just funny bse we don't know how their own project will turn out.

 

Has any other actor even like done criticism for any of the  other original live action remakes   o while promoting their very own movie?

 

Get she wanted to give  her opinion and I just don't think it was the right place and situation . 

 

 

This movie was already going to be hated but they don't really need to add gasoline to the fire .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Liiviig 1998]

24 minutes ago, toutvabien said:

None of this race-bending talk would even be happening if this came out in 2014 or 2012 with all these other Snow White reimaginings.

Doubt they would have done race bending casting in 2012 too.

 

Alot of this things started in the mid to late 2010s.

[JustLurking]

13 minutes ago, Liiviig 1998 said:

The stalking comments on the second clip were not true though. That didn't happen in the film. 

 

Gadot clip has been out for like a month now. Didn't stir up as much shit . It's that second clip that has set things ablaze.

 It's the one that should have been edited out.

 

Once again throwing criticism at the original while promoting your current project makes one come off as proud and like "I'm so better than you" vibe which is just funny bse we don't know how their own project will turn out.

 

Has any other actor even like done criticism for any of the  other original live action remakes   o while promoting their very own movie?

 

Get she wanted to give  her opinion and I just don't think it was the right place and situation . 

 

 

This movie was already going to be hated but they don't really need to add gasoline to the fire .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not saying you can't disagree or call out dumb shit man, I'm just saying that nothing there is "offensive", people can simply acknowledge some shit is dumb without acting like the people saying it are the devil

[ChipDerby]

47 minutes ago, toutvabien said:

None of this race-bending talk would even be happening if this came out in 2014 or 2012 with all these other Snow White reimaginings.

 

Well that's because a big cultural shift happened in, oh, 2016 for some reason and a certain segment of society has felt emboldened to just become more and more... racist.

[MovieMan89]

Anyone ever stop to think maybe Zegler just had a brain fart for the word she was looking for with the “stalker” thing? She goes on to elaborate their relationship dynamic is weird, and she’s 100% right. He shows up to kiss and save her at the end and then they are literally in love. It’s weird af. That’s likely what she was trying to get across, and maybe chose the wrong word for what she meant with “stalker”. It’s really not a big deal, geez. Also wouldn’t be shocked if Disney deliberately wanted someone who didn’t love the original if they’re drastically reimagining.
 

It’s not like Ariel, where people today still love the OG character, and she was praised for her independence at the time (though I think OG Ariel is a problematic character but that’s another story).