AVENGERS: INFINITY WAR | 1369.5 M overseas ● 2048.4 M worldwide

[Brainbug]

Just now, IronJimbo said:

China is scary, its money that avatar and titanic didn't have access too.

 

I think it beats TFA btw

FOREIGN TOTAL

-

12/16/09

$164,545,565

8.1%

$2,027,457,462

 

China

Fox

1/7/10

-

-

$204,129,854

Final

 

 

Didnt the Titanic-Re-Release also earn a lot in China in 2012? Either way, saying that Avatar didnt had access to China when it grossed 204M there is a bit ridiculous. Yes, that gross would be like 600M today, but without it you would have an Avatar total that didnt cross 2B OS or 2,78B Worldwide.

[IronJimbo]

1 minute ago, Brainbug said:

FOREIGN TOTAL

-

12/16/09

$164,545,565

8.1%

$2,027,457,462

 

China

Fox

1/7/10

-

-

$204,129,854

Final

 

 

Didnt the Titanic-Re-Release also earn a lot in China in 2012? Either way, saying that Avatar didnt had access to China when it grossed 204M there is a bit ridiculous. Yes, that gross would be like 600M today, but without it you would have an Avatar total that didnt cross 2B OS or 2,78B Worldwide.

Remember Avatar was the highest grossing film from 2009-2013 despite the rapidily growing market. It was the highest grossing film by far so it would be fair to assume it would have made so much more than 200 (800m?) if china's market was the size it is now

[Brainbug]

Just now, IronJimbo said:

Remember Avatar was the highest grossing film from 2009-2013 despite the rapidily growing market. It was the highest grossing film by far so it would be fair to assume it would have made so much more than 200 (800m?) if china's market was the size it is now

 

I know. Its still ridiculous to say that Avatar hadnt access to the market

[IronJimbo]

4 minutes ago, Brainbug said:

 

I know. Its still ridiculous to say that Avatar hadnt access to the market

Well it's only the same market in name, it's a completely different beast now. I didn't mean it literally lol

[Fullbuster]

15 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

China is scary, its money that avatar and titanic didn't have access too.

 

I think it beats TFA btw

 

The same could be said of Indonesia, Philippines, Thailand..that were insignificant 8 years ago while Brazil and Mexico were not on the same level than France or UK like they are now.

 

That's why following box office is so interesting for me: growing markets will allow more records to be broken again and again.

[peludo]

It seems a joke to complain about China market size in 2010 when Avatar was absurdly bloated because of 3D overcharge and the best exchange rates ever.

 

China was smaller in 2010? Sure. And what about in 2001? when two beasts like HP1 and FOTR were released, with the worse exchange rates maybe in last 30 years, and without the 3D doping, without developing markets, and without $200m from China... We can get tons of examples like these. With unadjusted dollars people lose the perspective.

 

Avatar will still remain to be the biggest grosser ever for maybe some years and it will always remembered as a phenomenon (still far from Titanic, though). No doubt about that. But it is undeniable it was one of the most benefited films ever by economical situation.

 

IW will not beat Avatar (who knows if Avengers 4 can have a chance). And we still do not know if it will be able to beat Titanic (it depends on China), but it is already one of the biggest successes ever. No matters how you look at it.

[Valonqar]

How many minutes til IW reaches 1B WW? 

[Cynosure]

2 hours ago, IronJimbo said:

Remember Avatar was the highest grossing film from 2009-2013 despite the rapidily growing market. It was the highest grossing film by far so it would be fair to assume it would have made so much more than 200 (800m?) if china's market was the size it is now

China's market in 2017 was a bit below ten times the size it was in 2009, so going only with market growth it would actually be $2b in China alone.

 

 

[Thrylos 7]

1 hour ago, peludo said:

It seems a joke to complain about China market size in 2010 when Avatar was absurdly bloated because of 3D overcharge and the best exchange rates ever.

 

China was smaller in 2010? Sure. And what about in 2001? when two beasts like HP1 and FOTR were released, with the worse exchange rates maybe in last 30 years, and without the 3D doping, without developing markets, and without $200m from China... We can get tons of examples like these. With unadjusted dollars people lose the perspective.

 

Avatar will still remain to be the biggest grosser ever for maybe some years and it will always remembered as a phenomenon (still far from Titanic, though). No doubt about that. But it is undeniable it was one of the most benefited films ever by economical situation.

 

IW will not beat Avatar (who knows if Avengers 4 can have a chance). And we still do not know if it will be able to beat Titanic (it depends on China), but it is already one of the biggest successes ever. No matters how you look at it.

Yeah I remember  the euro being almost 1.6 $ at the time of avatar’s release.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Thrylos 7

[Cynosure]

1 hour ago, peludo said:

It seems a joke to complain about China market size in 2010 when Avatar was absurdly bloated because of 3D overcharge and the best exchange rates ever.

 

China was smaller in 2010? Sure. And what about in 2001? when two beasts like HP1 and FOTR were released, with the worse exchange rates maybe in last 30 years, and without the 3D doping, without developing markets, and without $200m from China... We can get tons of examples like these. With unadjusted dollars people lose the perspective.

 

Avatar will still remain to be the biggest grosser ever for maybe some years and it will always remembered as a phenomenon (still far from Titanic, though). No doubt about that. But it is undeniable it was one of the most benefited films ever by economical situation.

 

IW will not beat Avatar (who knows if Avengers 4 can have a chance). And we still do not know if it will be able to beat Titanic (it depends on China), but it is already one of the biggest successes ever. No matters how you look at it.

Actually, not really. In the US, it will at best make the top 30 adjusted. In France it will do at most 5M admissions, not even top 100 all time. Same thing in markets like Germany, Italy or Japan where it's really not looking at a record breaking performance at all. In the UK, based on average ticket price, it's looking at maybe 8-9 million admissions, where TFA did 17M, Spectre 13M, Skyfall 16M, etc.

 

It's a huge success overall because it has managed to build on all the emerging markets while managing to keep a decent level of support in traditional markets, but we're far from "one of the biggest successes ever". People indeed lose the perspective with unadjusted dollars, combined nowadays with many growing markets overseas..

Edited May 4, 2018 by Cynosure

[peludo]

2 minutes ago, Cynosure said:

Actually, not really. In the US, it will at best make the top 30 adjusted. In France it will do at most 5M admissions, not even top 100 all time. Same thing in markets like Germany, Italy or Japan where it's not looking at a record breaking performance at all. In the UK based on average ticket price it's looking at maybe 8-9 million admissions, where TFA did 17M, Spectre 13M, Skyfall 16M, etc.

 

It's a huge success overall because it has managed to build on all the emerging markets while managing to keep a decent level of support in traditional markets, but we're far from "one of the biggest successes ever".

The question is how can we measure a worldwide phenomenon. Is it necessary to be a record breaker (a grade of 10 out 10) in 3 or 4 markets and be average in the rest or is it enough with being a very good grosser (an 8 out 10) in 30 or 40 markets like IW? The big merit of this film is, IMO, and beyond being enormous in traditional good markets for SH genre, to boost it in other markets not so favorable to it, like Europe, where it is making very big numbers and narrowing the gap with other franchises much more accepted.

 

Maybe adjusting by every factor it is still far from Titanic, and a bit behind Jurassic Park, E.T, Avatar, the first Star Wars, Harry Potter or LOTR. But all things considered I do not think the difference with them is too big.

[peludo]

24 minutes ago, Thrylos 7 said:

Yeah I remember  the euro being almost 1.6 $ at the time of avatar’s release.

Not so much, but close to 1.5, about a 20% higher than today.

[Cynosure]

21 minutes ago, peludo said:

The question is how can we measure a worldwide phenomenon. Is it necessary to be a record breaker (a grade of 10 out 10) in 3 or 4 markets and be average in the rest or is it enough with being a very good grosser (an 8 out 10) in 30 or 40 markets like IW? The big merit of this film is, IMO, and beyond being enormous in traditional good markets for SH genre, to boost it in other markets not so favorable to it, like Europe, where it is making very big numbers and narrowing the gap with other franchises much more accepted.

 

Maybe adjusting by every factor it is still far from Titanic, and a bit behind Jurassic Park, E.T, Avatar, the first Star Wars, Harry Potter or LOTR. But all things considered I do not think the difference with them is too big.

True phenomenons are basically movies that overperform above market expectations at the time of their release in every market, or almost every market. Titanic and Avatar are of course the best examples of the last 20 years. I would also add E.T to that list. I would say it's far from all three of these, and looking at traditional stable markets is a good way to measure that :

 

Japan : Titanic (26.20 billion yen), Avatar (15.60 billion yen), E.T (13.50 billion yen), AIW (4 billion yen)

France : Titanic (21 million admissions), Avatar (nearly 15 million admissions), E.T (9.5 admissions), AIW (5-5.5 million admissions)

etc.

 

While there are movies like LOTR or HP where AIW is most likely bigger domestically, overseas, and accounting for market conditions, it's behind all the franchises you mentioned.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Cynosure

[KP1025]

2 minutes ago, Cynosure said:

True phenomenons are basically movies that overperform above market expectations at the time of their release in every market, or almost every market. Titanic and Avatar are of course the best examples of the last 20 years. I would also add E.T to that list. I would say it's far from all three of these, and looking at traditional stable markets is a good way to measure that :

 

Japan : Titanic (26.20 billion yen), Avatar (15.60 billion yen), E.T (13.50 billion yen), AIW (4 billion yen)

France : Titanic (21 million admissions), Avatar (nearly 15 million admissions), E.T (9.5 admissions), AIW (5-5.5 million admissions)

etc.

 

While there are movies like LOTR or HP where AIW is most likely bigger domestically, overseas, and accounting for market conditions, it's behind all the franchises you mentioned.

 

Looking at the examples, it looks like there is a global phenomenon approximately once per decade. I'm guessing the next one is also likely to be an original film since big franchise films do not have universal appeal in all markets (e.g. Star Wars is weak in Latin America and Asia outside Japan, MCU is very weak in Japan and not that big in much of Europe). 

[Cynosure]

4 minutes ago, KP1025 said:

 

Looking at the examples, it looks like there is a global phenomenon approximately once per decade. I'm guessing the next one is also likely to be an original film since big franchise films do not have universal appeal in all markets (e.g. Star Wars is weak in Latin America and Asia outside Japan, MCU is very weak in Japan and not that big in much of Europe). 

Once or twice per decade, yeah, although I think that with so many new markets emerging it might actually be even harder for a movie to become a true global phenomenon since it will require appealing massively to many more different cultures, where as twenty plus years ago it was basically North America, Europe and Japan.

[Thrylos 7]

28 minutes ago, Cynosure said:

True phenomenons are basically movies that overperform above market expectations at the time of their release in every market, or almost every market. Titanic and Avatar are of course the best examples of the last 20 years. I would also add E.T to that list. I would say it's far from all three of these, and looking at traditional stable markets is a good way to measure that :

 

Japan : Titanic (26.20 billion yen), Avatar (15.60 billion yen), E.T (13.50 billion yen), AIW (4 billion yen)

France : Titanic (21 million admissions), Avatar (nearly 15 million admissions), E.T (9.5 admissions), AIW (5-5.5 million admissions)

etc.

 

While there are movies like LOTR or HP where AIW is most likely bigger domestically, overseas, and accounting for market conditions, it's behind all the franchises you mentioned.

Why is japan more important than South Korea, France more important than Mexico, Germany more important than Brazil e.t.c. What kind of cherry picking is that ? It stinks and it’s basically vomit-inducing.  Every movie is judged according to the time of its release not with , this country this, that country that, adjusted, unadjusted, the dollar value at the time blahblahblah. Fact of the matter is this is crushing every hp movie for example, why should I value u.k money for hp more tha india’s money for IW ? Fantastic beasts movies are being released in the same conditions and failing to set the world on fire, the hobbit movies also failed if we consider these franchises extremely similar to Hp and Lotr.

 

Maybe you should create a chart excluding the countries you deem as unworthy of being in it , and this shit about emerging markets needs to stop. Emerging markets are there for every movie to take advantage of and have been for quite a few years actually. 

 

Yes nothing is like the two cameron films but that’s  where this ends. E.t, Star Wars, Lotr, hp, Jurassic park e.t.c can all be easily compared with fast and furious films, marvel films e.t.c., for example .

Edited May 5, 2018 by Thrylos 7

[Cynosure]

23 minutes ago, Thrylos 7 said:

Why is japan more important than South Korea, France more important than Mexico, Germany more important than Brazil e.t.c. What kind of cherry picking is that ? It stinks and it’s basically vomit-inducing.  Every movie is judged according to the time of its release not with , this country this, that country that, adjusted, unadjusted, the dollar value at the time blahblahblah. Fact of the matter is this is crushing every hp movie for example, why should I value u.k money for hp more tha india’s money for IW ? Fantastic beasts movies are being released in the same conditions and failing to set the world on fire, the hobbit movies also failed if we consider these franchises extremely similar to Hp and Lotr.

 

Maybe you should create a chart excluding the countries you deem as unworthy of being in it , and this shit about emerging markets needs to stop. Emerging markets are there for every movie to take advantage of and have been for quite a few years actually. 

 

Yes nothing is like the two cameron films but that’s  where this ends. E.t, Star Wars, Lotr, hp, Jurassic park e.t.c can all be easily compared with fast and furious films, marvel films e.t.c., for example .

First, please drop the feigned indignation. Second, where did I say they were more important ? You just can't use non-mature markets for long-time based comparisons, it's basic economic analysis. Japan has been a fairly stable market with no inflation for decades where as South-Korea has experienced massive growth in the past 15 years or so. In South-Korea's top 30 films by admissions, every single film has come out within the last 15 years. Every single one. Same reason why France or Germany make for better markets to use if you want to compare current movies to movies from 20 years ago than Mexico or Brazil.

 

It depends on which markets. You can compare all these movies in mature markets such as the ones I mentioned above, but comparing them in markets that are still growing makes absolutely no sense. And thus it doesn't make much more sense to compare overall OS totals either. So AIW released in 2018 will gross more in China than Return of the King ? No kidding ! By the way, when a market is growing as fast as China is, a few years is a lot.

Edited May 5, 2018 by Cynosure

[NCsoft]

3 hours ago, Cynosure said:

China's market in 2017 was a bit below ten times the size it was in 2009, so going only with market growth it would actually be $2b in China alone.

 

 

Yep, even people acknowledging how big Avatar was in China still don't seem to realize how big Avatar was in China. Avatar's gross wouldn't be $600M or $800M today, it would be worth significantly more than that even. I doubt any movie could gross $2B in China, but saying Avatar would be equivalent of $1B in today's Chinese market certainly would be no exaggeration.

Edited May 5, 2018 by NCsoft

[NCsoft]

2 hours ago, KP1025 said:

 

Looking at the examples, it looks like there is a global phenomenon approximately once per decade. I'm guessing the next one is also likely to be an original film since big franchise films do not have universal appeal in all markets (e.g. Star Wars is weak in Latin America and Asia outside Japan, MCU is very weak in Japan and not that big in much of Europe). 

Original films don't make it big anymore, I want to be optimistic too, but where are the examples of huge global original hits since Avatar? The next true global phenomenon either won't come in the foreseeable future, or is just going to be Avatar 2

[Belle]

1 hour ago, NCsoft said:

Original films don't make it big anymore, I want to be optimistic too, but where are the examples of huge global original hits since Avatar? The next true global phenomenon either won't come in the foreseeable future, or is just going to be Avatar 2

While "original" live action movies aren't raking in money comparable to their adapted counterparts, Animation seems to be doing well. Though as good as Avatar or even movies of Jurassic World and Avengers? Obviously not. 

 

EDIT: I agree regardless that the next big original film with universal appeal like Avatar won't come for a while. 

Edited May 5, 2018 by Belle