The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power | Amazon | September 2, 2022

[Valonqar]

@Ozymandias From what I gathered retroactively since I missed the discourse, Elves at Helm's Deep was the biggest breach of Tolkienverse. I get their point but I didn't mind it cause I never liked Tolkien's idea that Elves didn't interfere cause it was the Age of Men. I get his point but it really didn't make sense when you think about it and having Legolas in Fellowship kinda went against the idea anyway (differences between Noldor, Sindar, etc is just semantics, IMO, Elf in fellowship = interferance). 

[Hatebox]

Watched episode 6. It felt like getting a glimpse at what the show could be/should have been. A self contained story with a beginning, middle and cliffhanger end! Tight(ish) plotting! Immediate, relatable stakes!

 

Yeah the dialogue scenes post-battle were still shit - I laughed out loud at the show’s attempt to make a couple out of Galadriel and tiny village king, and next week it’s back to the Irish gypsies - but at least it gave us something. 

[Liiviig 1998]

Durin was great in this episode and the dwarves remain the best thing about this show.

 

Hartfoots plotline was slow and only got interesting towards the end. For the love of God who are those white witches ,just jump in the plot,no dialogue which is just getting really annoying now. Enough with the mystery box around them already.

 

After such a killer ending in the last episode. This episode needed to continue with the momentum but the southland plot besides a few little good scenes was mostly inconsequential and just infuriating.

 

Yeah expected most of them to survive but the plot armor was ridiculous, they looked way to clean for people who have been through an eruption.All the tension,suspense gained in the previous episode was gone reduced to atoms. 

 

This was galadriel 's episode to question herself,she says it in words but her expressions don't put it forth and the kind of rushed jovial ending of the southlanders plot undermines it.

 

Eruption only consequence this episode is to form modor ,which most of the audience already knows ,the scene at the end with adar was basically,just telling us what we already know.

 

 

This is the most laughable audience hand holding scene I've seen , it was embarrassing.

 

Caleborn retcon seems quite significant . Don't know how to feel about it.

 

What the hell was that Theo , arondhir and bronhwin scene at the end . That scene was just put at the end to try to Garner emotion but falls flat bse we know they were never gonna die. Just start the episode with them.

 

Don't know where isildur plot is going ,let's see.

 

I've been liking the show enough but this episode had red flags.

 

These showrunners being JJ acolytes  ,I'm starting to see it's influences here. Something interesting happens here then the resulting effect or consequence is boring or underwhelming.

 

Lots of mystery boxes with little reveals or underwhelming ones.

 

The most inconsequential subplot this series . We didn't need all this to just create modor which most of the audience already knows.

 

Like who are southlanders! What is there culture,why did their ancestors serve morgoth ,where is their capital and where did there king reside. Like I know the series is still going .But we got fuck all this 7 episodes. 

 

 

5.5/10

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 7, 2022 by Liiviig 1998

[Porthos]

I have a track to finish, so long commentary, if any, will wait 'till the morrow, but EASILY the best episode by far.   In acting, plotting, and yes, directing/writing.  As well as consequences for prior actions.

 

...

 

Plus, as @Cap would say:  "We stan a series that knows how to effin' shoot scenes in the dark!"

 

(yes, I am subtweeting another series here)

 

My one and only spoiler observation:

 

Spoiler

If Not!Eminem is indeed Not Sauron, I will be SHOCKED

 

Might as well have a sign over his head with blinking lights saying "No, I am ***NOT*** Sauron, why do you ask?"

 

(if for some ungodly reason he isn't Sauron, he almost certainly is in League with him.  That dude may be Fair, but he is eeeeeeeeeevil)

((Fair in looks but EEEEEEEEEVIL - wonder where I heard that description before ))

 

Edited October 7, 2022 by Porthos

[Ozymandias]

This episode has gone back to feeling like episodes 1-5 because theres a lot of dialogue and boring scenes with not much happening again...not good for your penultimate episode.  Durin and his wife continue to be the best part of the show and could be fantastic in a better one but they've been stuck doing melodrama this whole time which hasn't really gone anywhere.

 

I wish there was more to talk about but there just isn't.  Anyways lets get this over with.

 

-We immediately pick up from last week and almost everybody is fine from that pyroclastic flow except for like a few.  Just ignore the land that they're standing on is literally scorched black and on fire.

 

-Lol at the Slim Shady cultist and co. being yet another boring mystery box for 2 episodes now.  Guess we needed a new one with sword hilt being gone!

 

-Miriel is blinded after a building collapsed but nothing looks wrong with her eyes, no burns or nothing with nobody noticing but she puts on a blindfold later even though she doesn't want people to know.  Odd but okay.

 

-Theo is just seriously grating at this point, please just die already.  no1curr buddy

 

-"What is it? What do you smell?" is a line taken verbatim from The Two Towers by an orc in a scene that ultimately serves no purpose but to pad out the runtime. 

 

-Turns out Galadriel's husband Celeborn is dead, can't say I'm surprised at this point.  Its oddly vague on specifics though, it feels like a late edition that was put in there to potentially retcon based on feedback backlash.  Also gotta have her think shes a widow so its okay to mingle with Sauron, right?

 

-Elendil the Faithful starts crying and blaming 'that elf' he now regrets saving from the sea for his failson's not death.  But isn't the sea always right?  Anyway, sad that Isildur died before the final episode but he wasn't a great character and I think the show will do fine without him!
 

-I'm pretty sure there were much, much more dramatic and epic ways of introducing/waking up Durin's bane than a falling leaf.  I won't even get into Durin's Bane being awakened late in the 3rd age because nothing matters.

 

-Halbrand is apparently gravely injured and needs Elvish medicine to survive(so he can get some alone time with Galadriel for the shippers) but in the next scene hes walking around just fine and even starts horse-riding.  Wtf?

 

-The ending of this episode was so lame.  I seriously LOL'ed at the text changing from "The Southlands" to "Mordor." Like come on, its as if they're intentionally being cheesy and dumb now.  Just simply have Adar sitting there grinning at Mt. Doom or something.  Like who was this for?  Everyone already knew it was Mordor and the few people completely unfamiliar with the movies/books are just gonna be asking themselves 'whats Mordor?'

 

Just one more episode and I'm done forever!

Edited October 7, 2022 by Ozymandias

[Porthos]

You know, I do have one other quick observation and it's about Fan Debates over Who Is Sauron.

 

Spoiler

I could be wrong here.  I could be *VERY* wrong, but I simply can not fathom Halbrand as Sauron.

 

Like, not at all.

 

See, the thing is, this Lord of the Rings/Tolkien isn't a work which is based on misdirection, false trails, and trickery.  If we want to call Tolkien a genre into itself, it isn't a genre that lends itself to such sort of things.

 

No, this is more the type of series where they, if not wear their emotions on their sleeves, at least telegraph who are Heroes, who are Villains and who might tip one way or the other.

 

Like, NotEminem?  He's up to no good.  Adar? 3 dimensional, but still clearly a villain.  Even the Stranger, who is up in the air, doesn't have the air of menace or villainy that a Second Age Sauron would have.

 

Doesn't mean Halbrand can't be corrupted.  He most certainly can.  But he might as well have a sign over his head that says "Yes, I *AM* the stand-in for Aragorn in this series."

 

Now this it is very likely that Halbrand won't be as... successful as Aragorn.  He has his own demons to battle, after all.

 

But Sauron?  Just don't see it.  And with every passing episode I find it that much harder to believe that this is Sauron pulling a con. 

 

(especially given that the Forces of Sauron are already moving all over the place [including Mr. Balrog])

 

[Valonqar]

Quote

See, the thing is, this Lord of the Rings/Tolkien isn't a work which is based on misdirection, false trails, and trickery.  If we want to call Tolkien a genre into itself, it isn't a genre that lends itself to such sort of things.

 

This is no Tolkien, this is JJ Abrams fanfic so of course that misdirection, false traits, trickery and mystery boxes are genre into itself. Like, look at all those death fakeout for characters we know that will live. Isildur grows up to become a No meme so why is he presumed dead? There's no suspense here just cringe.  Teleporno  aka Celeborn  (curse him) fathers Elrond's wife so you bet that off-hand reference that he is dead is a set up for him return. She talks about how they met - she was dancing lmao that's classic OTP shit - and she says "I never saw him again after that" aka no body = no death Hey, have to bait shippers with love triangle, no? That's classic JJ too. 

 

Halbrand is Sauron. Search your feelings you know this to be true. It's Bad Robot so of course that Galadriel's love interest will be the very Enemy she is searching for. Also, when you think about it, he could have arranged everything if he followed Galadriel from a distance in secret for the past 1000 years. He also has power of weather control canonically so he could have created bad weather at the sea and blow the raft towards Numenor. So that chance meeting most likely wasn't a chance at all. Oh and his wound is most likely deliberately inflicted so that he would be taken to the Elves. 

 

 

Edited October 7, 2022 by Valonqar

[Brainbug]

Seesh, this episode was ... well, it was pretty boring. The weakest so far for me.

 

Spoiler

I cant with the non-consequences of the pyroclastic flow. They all should have been dead. But atleast have them have more injurys and more deaths. This whole episode scremed Plot Armour and it was annoying. Also why the Isildur Fake Death? Everyone know hes alive so why? It doesnt add any tension since well everyone knows hes totally fine so i dont reallly get it.

 

The meteor Man plotline baffles me more and more. It feels like pointless filler at this point and i really really hope they DO something with it next episode and finally explain some things.

[Liiviig 1998]

2 hours ago, Brainbug said:

Seesh, this episode was ... well, it was pretty boring. The weakest so far for me.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I cant with the non-consequences of the pyroclastic flow. They all should have been dead. But atleast have them have more injurys and more deaths. This whole episode scremed Plot Armour and it was annoying. Also why the Isildur Fake Death? Everyone know hes alive so why? It doesnt add any tension since well everyone knows hes totally fine so i dont reallly get it.

 

The meteor Man plotline baffles me more and more. It feels like pointless filler at this point and i really really hope they DO something with it next episode and finally explain some things.

The hartfoots plotline has been dead weight for like 3 episodes now.

 

Though I love the elrond,durin and disa plotline . episode 5 halted that plotline significantly.

 

Season finale has to give some answers . This episode kind of made 6 meaningless . Characters are exactly back where they were in episode 5 for the most part. Just some minor changes for numenor, galadriel is literally the same , southlanders after losing their land feel surprisingly better off and are back to being bland ,the show literally snatches urgency achieved in the previous episode.

 

This was the episode that should have changed the status quo and it miserably fails imo.

 

Don't like bringing comparison but the latest HOTD episode was a banger . By the end of it we can clearly see lines drawn and status quo change . That show with time skips and all has managed to move the plot and characters quite well and when important scenes happen . Aftermath is shown well.

 

GOT was good at this too.

 

This episode was pure amateur hour for the writers. Even with got later seasons being sloppy ,they knew how to create anticipation and keep the audience hyped , 

This series can't even do that.

 

 

 

[Valonqar]

HotD is based on finished books so they have a clear line where they are going. OTOH, ROP is based on books that are more like scathered notes than actual stories. So they have to improvise/fanfic a lot. 

 

I think that story will get more condensed now that Halbrand/Sauron is with the Elves. I don't think we are going to be explicitely told (coughMordortextcough) that he is Sauron because Elves wouldn't work with him. But they are going to give us more clues such as, for example, Elves nick-naming him Annatar (Lord of Gifts) in gratitude for his help. So that storyline where they are forging the rings together, Galadriel growing suspicious of him which creates distance between them, most likely love triangle with Sauron-Galadriel-Celeborn that adds up to his negative feelings, should be pretty clear. And then his true nature being revealed with the One Ring, flight to Numenor, Ar-Pharazon's protection, war on Valinor, fall of Numenor. Not sure how everyone else will fit in there but don't really care. I watch for Sauron/Galadriel. 

 

Balrog being awakened by a single leaf was as ridiculous as Miriel having a change of heart because leafs started to fall from the tree 2 episodes ago. 

 

Miriel is blind. Galadriel cries. Halbrand is scratched. Take him to Elf healers! [that's true love I guess] I'm pretty sure Elves can sure blindness but OK. I don't think Miriel will stay blind. 

[Ozymandias]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Porthos]

6 hours ago, Valonqar said:

 

This is no Tolkien, this is JJ Abrams fanfic so of course that misdirection, false traits, trickery and mystery boxes are genre into itself. Like, look at all those death fakeout for characters we know that will live. Isildur grows up to become a No meme so why is he presumed dead? There's no suspense here just cringe.  Teleporno  aka Celeborn  (curse him) fathers Elrond's wife so you bet that off-hand reference that he is dead is a set up for him return. She talks about how they met - she was dancing lmao that's classic OTP shit - and she says "I never saw him again after that" aka no body = no death Hey, have to bait shippers with love triangle, no? That's classic JJ too. 

 

Halbrand is Sauron. Search your feelings you know this to be true. It's Bad Robot so of course that Galadriel's love interest will be the very Enemy she is searching for. Also, when you think about it, he could have arranged everything if he followed Galadriel from a distance in secret for the past 1000 years. He also has power of weather control canonically so he could have created bad weather at the sea and blow the raft towards Numenor. So that chance meeting most likely wasn't a chance at all. Oh and his wound is most likely deliberately inflicted so that he would be taken to the Elves. 

 

 

You say “fan fic” like it’s a bad thing.

 

Anyway, what I am getting at is that, so far, the way the show has been telling its story is through a mythic lens and has been portraying its characters like Campbellian archetypes.  I’m not going to say the show is “old fashioned” in its storytelling, but I will say that with the exception of one minor character,  we haven’t seen a radical departure in character tone or presentation that would shift Halbrand from the archetypical Reluctant Hero (who has a dark side) to Scheming Puppetmaster.

 

Outside of There Must Be A Tweeeeeeewst, what evidence is there from Halbrand’s actions that he is some sort of schemer/corrupter?  None that I’ve seen so far.

 

The only way it would work for me is if this was Halbrand is Fighting His Dark Side and genuinely trying to be a better person. 
 

There’s next to no setup for it, is what I’m saying, and a lot of setup against it.

 

Now knowing that entertainment is littered with poorly thought out choices, I can’t rule it out 100 percent.  What I can say is that it’s been fairly inconsistent with the character portrayal so far, and that unless the alleged reveal was done at a very high level… Well, I’ll just say that it’s Not Earned (so far) and leave it at that.

 

(yes I am going out on a limb here, and if it breaks under me, so be it)

Edited October 7, 2022 by Porthos

[Valonqar]

1 hour ago, Porthos said:

 

 

The only way it would work for me is if this was Halbrand is Fighting His Dark Side and genuinely trying to be a better person. 
 

 

 

That is a big possibility too. I think that speculation that he's a mega puppetmaster comes from Sauron having that reputation. But he also sincerely repented in canon and spent hundreds of years just chilling. So this could well be a scenario where:

 

Sauron indeed just chills cause he repented and wants to live quietly (in the last episode, Adar taunted him whether he killed someone close to him, a woman, a child and got a recation to "child" so wonder if chill Sauron had family) 

 

Galadriel doesn't hunt for him in secret so maybe he got the wind of it and is extra cautious and keeps to himself

 

they do have a totally fated meeting on a raft

 

he figures who she is, she confirms it and he has an option to kill her but is either intrigued or really wants to be good so he saves her

 

he is genuinely reluctant to return to Southlands and become King but then thinks he can now be a good one (aka using power for good intentions still corrupts)

 

he does develope real feelings for her and is likely to have a heartbreka when her hubby returns and she chooses him

 

he is genuinely injured and being taken to the Elves is by chance not design

 

In a twist of irony, Sauron didn't want destruction of Southland anymore but Adar destroyed it by using Sauron's device

 

Etc

 

So my guess is that we'll get some massive hint in the next episode and then Season 2 will be how he got corrupted again.

Edited October 7, 2022 by Valonqar

[Liiviig 1998]

48 minutes ago, Porthos said:

say “fan fic” like it’s a bad thing

Yeah it sort of is. For a property and show like this. Show doesn't trust it's audience and puts in mystery boxes to make the show feel more suspenseful than it actually is.

 

Normie would be confused watching this show . It's called rings of power and the plot has barely moved an inch towards that goal .

 

LOTR sets up everything in a 7 min intro . Got starts with a tease of the white walkers and in 3 episodes sets up the premise of the show and later episodes and seasons expand on that.

 

Just like GOT season 1 , ROP  has separate subplots . The major difference is that GOT has the main subplot ,Jon arryns death and a plot against the iron throne which is essentially integral to the premise of the show "game of thrones"

 

The plot involving forging of the rings is put on the back burner . Central focus of the season should have been celebrimbor/gil galad /elrond plot .

 

This whole mystery box is just slowing down the show. 

 

Halbrand being sauron  is starting to look iffy . He is going to the elves but can't imagine him manipulating elves . Annatar a valar like in the lore is way more believable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Liiviig 1998]

53 minutes ago, Valonqar said:

and is likely to have a heartbreka when her hubby returns and she chooses him

Nah that would be a terrible idea. Muh evil because woman reject me.  Turning him into that would severely undermine sauron character .

 

Man liked him in the first three episodes where he was more clever and cunning , the last few episodes have lost this .

 

The notion of him becoming sauron is starting to become less convincing as the episodes progress .

 

Turning him into an incel like character would be stupid.

 

If he is sauron , ep8 and S2 have some work to do. Otherwise this will be the dragon reborn reveal in the WOT show which sucked ass .

 

This and the dragon reborn reveal have used the same mystery box element and both shows are produced by Amazon!! .

 

Hope they handle it well ,because if it's done poorly, it could damage the show.

 

Lots don't know WOT but sauron is well known charcter in pop culture.

 

Picked up this one but the rest of comments mentioned in your post would risk severely undermining sauron character and make him less intimidating.

 

I'm all for character development but don't think the writers can handle such a developement and risk turning it soap opera CW level .

 

They should stick with him being a manipulator .

Edited October 7, 2022 by Liiviig 1998

[Valonqar]

The show is written by Bad Reboot stalwarts so expect exactly that. 

[Hatebox]

So everyone laughed when ‘Southlands’ changed to ‘Mordor’, right?

 

The show’s back to being boring but it’s at least a more tolerable boring because we’ve experienced some firsthand drama with these characters now. It’s still weird how little’s actually happened so far (least of all this episode) but Amazon clearly want 5 seasons or more.

[Valonqar]

10 minutes ago, Hatebox said:

So everyone laughed when ‘Southlands’ changed to ‘Mordor’, right?

 

 

yes, it was an intentional comedy skit. 

[Menor the Destroyer]

Mostly enjoyed this episode but yeah, it is disappointing that we have one episode left in the season and it just lacks a clear direction. Did like the scenes with Galadriel and Theo, though, and the scenes between Durin and his father were excellent. 

[cax16]

Enjoyed the episode again