Weekend Actuals (Page 92): Ant-Man and the Wasp 75.8M (#CRUMBLING EVEN MORE) | Jurassic World 28.6M | Incredibles 2 28.4M | The First Purge 17.4M

[filmlover]

1 minute ago, Nova said:

The Lion got nominated for best picture despite having a MC score of 69 so lets not use MC as some metric of what films should get nominated and what ones shouldn't when two years ago there was one that was under 70 that got a nom. 

Lion was the last Weinstein awards-friendly film before his downfall.

[Rebeccas]

1 minute ago, Nova said:

The Lion got nominated for best picture despite having a MC score of 69 so lets not use MC as some metric of what films should get nominated and what ones shouldn't when two years ago there was one that was under 70 that got a nom. 

It is for non-traditional movies which need a huge critics push to be in the conversation. Get Out, Mad Max Fury Road and the like need 85+ MC just to get into the race. Traditional Oscar bait is a different animal. 

[titanic2187]

12 minutes ago, Valonqar said:

Logan and AIW are not important to the Oscars. BP is. A SH movie needs a special narrative to break into the Best Picture line up. So that AMPAS doesn't feel silly for including it. It's a genre bias. Logan and AIW had/have zero such narrative while BP has a strong one.  It's in.  They don't want the repeat of TDK backlash but this time with obligatory racist accusations (even though a snub would be pure genre bias, not some other kind of bias). It's happening. Done. 

Wonder woman didn't get single nomination in a oscar year that emphasis so much on female-empowerment. I doubt BP will have enough of non-factor to drive it in into BP nomination list. 

[Rebeccas]

Just now, titanic2187 said:

Wonder woman didn't get single nomination in a oscar year that emphasis so much on female-empowerment. I doubt BP will have enough of non-factor to drive it in into BP nomination list. 

WW was in the 70s on MC and didn’t get a single 100 score. It’s just not in the same league critically. 

[titanic2187]

3 minutes ago, Nova said:

Lion got nominated for best picture despite having a MC score of 69 so lets not use MC as some metric of what films should get nominated and what ones shouldn't when two years ago there was one that was under 70 that got a nom. 

[Ephemeris]

37 minutes ago, baumer said:

 

They gave it a 21% Sunday drop....that's pretty reasonable.  It's the Saturday number that is shocking.

I disagree, imo it was the Friday number that was a bit unexpected after that Thursday number, not the Sat increase over true Fri. It got a 5.9% Sat increase, bigger than Homecoming's 4.7% increase last year.

 

Thursday was big compared to the Friday number, but that makes sense with a lot of people probably having the day off after July 4th, and previews also started an hour earlier than they did for Homecoming. So apart from the relatively big preview number, it seems to have followed pretty standard drops over the weekend.

[Nova]

34 minutes ago, titanic2187 said:

Funny you post a picture of him because @captainwondyful Sent me this DM yesterday when we were discussing the Oscars. She mentions Harvey. She said I could post the DM and to be honest, I couldn’t agree with her more. 

 

“Harvey Weinstein changed the Academy Awards in 1998 when he took campaigning to the NEXT LEVEL with Shakespeare In Love.  Ever since then, we're moved more from blockbusters and popular films to niche films.  We've created an entire genre: they literally call it Oscar Bait.  So now every December we get a string of bullshit faux-art films that exist so no reason except for people to win award and jack off to each other's greatest.

 

When Weinstein took campaigning to another level, it's now become less about the film and more about wooing the votes.  I said this in February in the Best Picture 2019 Predictions, and I will stand by it: the only thing stopping Marvel Studios from sweeping this year with Black Panther and Avengers: Infinity War is Kevin Feige's disinterest in campaigning.  Combine that with Disney Studios being HARD for Mary Poppins Returns, and Black Panther will likely be kept to technical awards (Hair and Make-Up, Costumes, Production Design), and AIW will be shut out altogether.

 

If they took 20M of their 2.5B gross profits from Black Panther and Avengers: Infinity War they could buy themselves a whole set!  (Though all that extra money is probably going to fucking cover for Solo's losses.)

 

 

In addition, I use to work in film production.  I know just how much work goes into producing film and television.  So it frustrates me to NO END when you had a situation like last year when Greta Grewig got a nomination for Lady Bird and Patty Jenkins got snubbed for Wonder Woman.  Oh, Wow, let's give Grewig a nomination because she knows how to set up a fucking static wide shot and get proper coverage for the matching reserve in editing.  But that doesn't matter, because it's all about the PERFORMANCES she got out of those actors!!  Nevermind that Patty Jenkins was directing technical and difficult fight scenes while still trying to get PERFORMANCES.  It's like the class was assigned a writing assignment; and one person turns in a basic five-page, five-paragraph essay while the other turns in a fifteen page, sourced and cited paper.  It's not the same.  And I wish the Academy would stop giving out free passes.

 

It's why I'm silently going to go apeshit when The Russo Brothers get snubbed for Infinity War -- especially if Ryan "I Should've Had An Oscar For Creed" Coogler doesn't get in for BP.  Listening to the RBs break down a scene, and talk about how much effing work they did, and then remembering the shot these movies back to back, is insane to me.  No one worked harder in this past couple years.  If you want to wait and give it to them for A4,that's fine.  But to dismiss the work altogether is mind-blowing.” 

Edited July 9, 2018 by Nova

[Rebeccas]

When it comes to Best Picture, you also need to look at what branches a movie can get support from since voters only vote in their branch's categories + Best Picture for the nomination ballot, people will tend to think of the movies that show up in their own categories. For Wonder Woman, it was just too much of a non-factor across the board: i.e. there was not really any broad support for it in any category. Black Panther looks VERY strong in costume design/production design, has an actor in the conversation (MBJ) and a writer/director with a lot of buzz. Of course, that can change in the fall when other movies come out, but at the moment, it's certainly looking very strong for BP.

 

IW is not going to have that. It's going to show up in the tech branches but it will not have acting or writing buzz. Most blockbusters don't get the kind of broad support BP is looking to get.

Edited July 9, 2018 by Rebeccas

[StevenG]

28 minutes ago, Valonqar said:

Logan and AIW are not important to the Oscars. BP is. A SH movie needs a special narrative to break into the Best Picture line up. So that AMPAS doesn't feel silly for including it. It's a genre bias. Logan and AIW had/have zero such narrative while BP has a strong one.  It's in.  They don't want the repeat of TDK backlash but this time with obligatory racist accusations (even though a snub would be pure genre bias, not some other kind of bias). It's happening. Done. 

Same said that was said about Wonder Woman and the sexism/feminism narrative, especially in the year of the #MeToo. The narrative was all there: decent film, great reviews, pop culture phenom, great box office, zeitgest captured, underserved audience being finally catered to, first major solo film for an iconic character that everyone knows, the same year in which MeToo and Weinstein happened, and then zero nods. I am sure that some people will say, "well, WW was mediocre," but hey, plenty of awful films have won Oscars. 

 

The reality is that the Academy members, who are mostly older white men, dont give a shit at the end of the day for all that inclusivity narrative or for that whole "the first black superhero/first superheroine" narratives, no matter how much of zeigest they captured.

Seriously, if you expect that BP is getting Oscars because of all those reasonings, your heart will be broken come February 2019.

 

Simply put, it is not gonna happen.

An in fact, I believe that its gigantic success will be perceived as BP's reward. At the end of the day, it is "just another superhero movie," and those older white dudes who think that "real cinema" should be about deep dramas starring white people having deep existential crises, will not vote for a film about yet another CGI costumed crimefighter battling a CGI supervillain.

 

 

Edited July 9, 2018 by StevenG

[Rebeccas]

Just now, StevenG said:

Same said that was said about Wonder Woman and the sexism/feminism narrative, especially in the year of the #MeToo. The narrative was all there: decent film, great reviews, pop culture phenom, great box office, zeitgest captured, underserved audience being finally catered to, first major solo film for an iconic character that everyone knows, the same year in which MeToo and Weinstein happened, and then zero nods. I am sure that some people will say, "well, WW was mediocre," but hey, plenty of awful films have won Oscars. 

 

The reality is that the Academy members, who are mostly older white men, dont give a shit at the end of the day for all that inclusivity narrative or for that whole "the first black superhero/first superheroine" narratives, no matter how much of zeigest they captured.

Seriously, if you expect that BP is getting Oscars because of all those reasonings, your heart will be broken come February 2019.

Again, traditional Oscar bait movies have different standards for nominations than genre films. Also you're looking at an even younger Academy membership this year than even last year.

[Nova]

1 minute ago, Rebeccas said:

When it comes to Best Picture, you also need to look at what branches a movie can get support from since voters only vote in their branch's categories + Best Picture for the nomination ballot, people will tend to think of the movies that show up in their own categories. For Wonder Woman, it was just too much of a non-factor across the board: i.e. there was not really any broad support for it in any category. Black Panther looks VERY strong in costume design/production design, has an actor in the conversation (MBJ) and a writer/director with a lot of buzz. Of course, that can change in the fall when other movies come out, but at the moment, it's certainly looking very strong for BP.

It was looking strong for both Logan and Wonder Woman for the longest time. Then the fall season hit and all the Oscar bait films got released and both films were forgotten about. The year before that Deadpool pretty much checked off all the boxes you could check off before Oscar nominations came out and it was also left with nothing. Bottom line: people talk Oscars for CBM until it’s actually time to be serious about it and then folks stick their noses up in the air and act like they’re above CBM movies and consider those films not worthy for whatever reason. 🤷🏼‍♂️ But sure let’s have another biopic get a best picture nomination as if we havent seen that get done before....since you know that’s the “excuse” for why CBM shouldn’t be considered. 

[filmlover]

8 minutes ago, StevenG said:

Same said that was said about Wonder Woman and the sexism/feminism narrative, especially in the year of the #MeToo. The narrative was all there: decent film, great reviews, pop culture phenom, great box office, zeitgest captured, underserved audience being finally catered to, first major solo film for an iconic character that everyone knows, the same year in which MeToo and Weinstein happened, and then zero nods. I am sure that some people will say, "well, WW was mediocre," but hey, plenty of awful films have won Oscars. 

 

The reality is that the Academy members, who are mostly older white men, dont give a shit at the end of the day for all that inclusivity narrative or for that whole "the first black superhero/first superheroine" narratives, no matter how much of zeigest they captured.

Seriously, if you expect that BP is getting Oscars because of all those reasonings, your heart will be broken come February 2019.

Deadpool tried to ride its "innovative" nature (being an enormously successful and critically-acclaimed R-rated comic book movie) with an awards campaign (it got nominations at PGA and WGA) and also got zero nominations. Nobody's gonna argue that comic book movies haven't faced obstacles in gaining major recognition because of their genre.

Edited July 9, 2018 by filmlover

[titanic2187]

4 minutes ago, Nova said:

Funny you post a picture of him because @captainwondyful Sent me this DM yesterday when we were discussing the Oscars. She mentions Harvey. She said I could post the DM and to be honest, I couldn’t agree with her more. 

 

“Harvey Weinstein changed the Academy Awards in 1998 when he took campaigning to the NEXT LEVEL with Shakespeare In Love.  Ever since then, we're moved more from blockbusters and popular films to niche films.  We've created an entire genre: they literally call it Oscar Bait.  So now every December we get a string of bullshit faux-art films that exist so no reason except for people to win award and jack off to each other's greatest.

 

When Weinstein took campaigning to another level, it's now become less about the film and more about wooing the votes.  I said this in February in the Best Picture 2019 Predictions, and I will stand by it: the only thing stopping Marvel Studios from sweeping this year with Black Panther and Avengers: Infinity War is Kevin Feige's disinterest in campaigning.  Combine that with Disney Studios being HARD for Mary Poppins Returns, and Black Panther will likely be kept to technical awards (Hair and Make-Up, Costumes, Production Design), and AIW will be shut out altogether.

 

If they took 20M of their 2.5B gross profits from Black Panther and Avengers: Infinity War they could buy themselves a whole set!  (Though all that extra money is probably going to fucking cover for Solo's losses.)

 

 

In addition, I use to work in film production.  I know just how much work goes into producing film and television.  So it frustrates me to NO END when you had a situation like last year when Greta Grewig got a nomination for Lady Bird and Patty Jenkins got snubbed for Wonder Woman.  Oh, Wow, let's give Grewig a nomination because she knows how to set up a fucking static wide shot and get proper coverage for the matching reserve in editing.  But that doesn't matter, because it's all about the PERFORMANCES she got out of those actors!!  Nevermind that Patty Jenkins was directing technical and difficult fight scenes while still trying to get PERFORMANCES.  It's like the class was assigned a writing assignment; and one person turns in a basic five-page, five-paragraph essay while the other turns in a fifteen page, sourced and cited paper.  It's not the same.  And I wish the Academy would stop giving out free passes.

 

It's why I'm silently going to go apeshit when The Russo Brothers get snubbed for Infinity War -- especially if Ryan "I Should've Had An Oscar For Creed" Coogler doesn't get in for BP.  Listening to the RBs break down a scene, and talk about how much effing work they did, and then remembering the shot these movies back to back, is insane to me.  No one worked harder in this past couple years.  If you want to wait and give it to them for A4,that's fine.  But to just act like LonePirate and Filmlover and dismiss the work altogether is mind-blowing.” 

I don't mind if IW or BP was snubbed, they have enough money to shine. And, I am quite supportive on AMPAS's preference in favoring of niche or independence film. 

 

The idea is simple, major studio support big-budget film for commercial work, while AMPAS back up all the independence film. 

Each division provide protection to their "genre" and therefore, ensuring the diversity of the film market. 

 

AMPAS need to be feel needed, and independence film needs Oscar love for surviving. 

 

 

[MrGlass2]

36 minutes ago, Valonqar said:

Logan and AIW are not important to the Oscars. BP is. A SH movie needs a special narrative to break into the Best Picture line up. So that AMPAS doesn't feel silly for including it. It's a genre bias. Logan and AIW had/have zero such narrative while BP has a strong one.

Don't group Logan and A:IW together, Logan did get nominated for best screenplay.

[poweranimals]

Any chance AMATW goes up in actuals?

[John Marston]

1 minute ago, MrGlass2 said:

Don't group Logan and A:IW together, Logan did get nominated for best screenplay.

 

which was pretty laughable

 

 

[stripe]

BP is already stronger contender than WW for multiple nods, including visual effects, both sounds, editing, costumes and Production design

 

I would bet it's in for Best Picture.

[Nova]

But I don’t even know why I bother arguing. It was only a couple years ago when the Academy had to change their ways in order to be more inclusive and only did so because they were called out on it endlessly. But yea they’re not out of touch or anything. 

[StevenG]

Alright.

Keep expecting BP to get major love from the Oscars next year.

And watch as your expectations get shattered by reality.

I bet you that, if Stanley Kubrick came back from the dead and directed, say DC's Deadman, and the film "transcended the genre" by being some sort of philosophical exploration of humanity when faced with the concept of death, and a chronicle of how death shapes our lives,  it would still get zero Oscar nods.

But hey, you do you.

Never lose hope.

[Rebeccas]

7 minutes ago, Nova said:

It was looking strong for both Logan and Wonder Woman for the longest time. Then the fall season hit and all the Oscar bait films got released and both films were forgotten about. The year before that Deadpool pretty much checked off all the boxes you could check off before Oscar nominations came out and it was also left with nothing. Bottom line: people talk Oscars for CBM until it’s actually time to be serious about it and then folks stick their noses up in the air and act like they’re above CBM movies and consider those films not worthy for whatever reason. 🤷🏼‍♂️ But sure let’s have another biopic get a best picture nomination as if we havent seen that get done before....since you know that’s the “excuse” for why CBM shouldn’t be considered. 

None of those had broad support across multiple branches though. WW was really like a costume or nothing situation. It really had nothing else in the mix. Deadpool showed up as a random WGA nod like GOTG but mainly due to disqualifications of other stronger Oscar films. Logan was a non-factor in the tech categories.

 

Plus, they were all significantly lower on MC than Black Panther. Also the Oscar predictors press seem to be rallying around BP in a way that they really didn't with WW, Logan, or DP. A lot of the race is shaped by that industry.

Edited July 9, 2018 by Rebeccas