John Wick: Chapter 3 - Parabellum (2019)

[baumer]

Discuss

[4815162342]

No Jimmy = Movie Fails

 

Spoiler

 

I kid. Though I did want another cameo from him.

 

Overall, my least favorite of the 3. In the 7.7-8/10 range.

 

 

[Jim Shorts]

^ Agreed.  My least favorite of the three.  I fell asleep a few times in the middle just because we've seen John do the same 1 vs 50 dance multiple times now.  I think the catacombs in part 2 was the best and nothing in part 3 came close to matching it. 

[WrathOfHan]

When John Wick started using the horse.... 👌👌👌

[CoolioD1]

the action sequences are cool as shit (tho it does blow its load on the best action in the first act) but i agree with others that this is the weakest of the three. these movies keep ballooning and are so high on their own mythology. there's no way this needed to be over 2 hours. also john wick ends this movie basically in the same place he's in at the end of two. except larry fishburne is excommunicated too i guess. whatever.

Edited May 17, 2019 by CoolioD1

[baumer]

The Halle Berry/killer dogs part was stand and cheer amazing.  I loved everything about it except the ending.  I didn't buy that Winston would kill him or that he would survive the fall.  That small complaint aside, it's a terrific way to end the first three chapters.  Keanu Reeves has to be in some kind of shape to make these movies.  You never once for a second don't believe that he isn't capable of doing what he does in the film.  

 

9/10

[Cap]

Every time one of Hallie Berry’s dogs bit off some guys’ dick, an angel got her wings. 

 

10/10

Edited May 18, 2019 by captainwondyful

[Jim Shorts]

2 hours ago, baumer said:

The Halle Berry/killer dogs part was stand and cheer amazing.  I loved everything about it except the ending.  I didn't buy that Winston would kill him or that he would survive the fall.  That small complaint aside, it's a terrific way to end the first three chapters.  Keanu Reeves has to be in some kind of shape to make these movies.  You never once for a second don't believe that he isn't capable of doing what he does in the film.  

 

9/10

The Halle Berry scene was probably the worst part of the movie.  So many times the bad guys with guns would just start running at her as she's standing still waiting for them to get within grabbing distance.  She should have died like 90 times in that scene. 

[John Rambo]

John Wick 3 is gold standard action movie! Amazing action scenes filled with lots of whistle-worthy moments. 9.5/10

 

Eagerly waiting for more from this series.

[Porthos]

Alright, I have to vent a little about the ending. 

 

SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

I haven't read a single post here, so I don't know if it's been covered or not, but I did not like how Wick survived at the end.

 

For a series that prizes itself on... I won't say 'believability' so instead I'll say 'being slightly more realistic' than the average action hero flick I just DID NOT like how Wick took three or four bullets, fell off a high story building, and survived.

 

I was hoping to see a glimpse of a bullet proof vest (say from those commandos at the end or something) as a sign that Wick didn't trust the situation he was walking into.  The header off the building still wouldn't have been believable but I wouldn't have cared.  It would have been a sign that Wick at least saw something coming and added a rung to the suspension of disbelief.

 

Yes, I know that John Wick was fucked up eight ways from Sunday at the end.  Possibly barely alive.  I like the idea behind it, just didn't like the execution.  A little tweak here or there on that last scene, and I think I might have given the film 9.5/10. I want to give the film at least a 9/10 because it was incredibly well crafted and made.

 

But that ending just sticks in my craw.  Want to sit on it and see if I can digest it or not.  Might have to see that scene again to decide one way or the other.

 

I guess it just felt something like a cheat in a film that tries not to cheat too much.

 

(more thoughts next post)

[Porthos]

With that out of the way, it's clear as day that the real trilogy here is Chapters 2, 3, and 4.  The first Wick film more or less set the table for everything, but the tale being told now seems to be over these three movies.

 

And I'm more than fine with that.  I actually like the idea behind the cliffhanger. I'm curious to see where it goes in the next film.

 

And, really I did like 99% of this movie.  Actions (both by Wick and by the Adjudicator) lead to consequences.  I actually dig that it was letting Bowery King live which let Wick survive, for instance.  It showed that the High Table could and did make a series of mistakes.

 

The film's plot held together rather well.  I already mentioned how damn funny the film was in the WE thread but I'll re-mention it here.  I will disagree with @4815162342 a bit that Wick in the in the same place as the end of Chapter 2 if only because he's gone through his temptation phase and now he's truly ALL IN.

 

The other observation I have is I'm pretty sure this series is gonna end with Wick's death.  They're telegraphing it so hard in fact, that I think they want us to think it's a bluff and he gets to walk away when it's all said and done.  Just not seeing it though.  This series ends with John Wick's death.  The only question it: Who does he take out on his way out.

 

So it's absolutely worth seeing.  The set pieces are gorgeous, the acting sublime, and the action and humor well worth the price of admission.  I can't think of a single major actor who didn't shine in the film.

 

Just a shame the ending wasn't a little tighter.  At least that's my initial impression.  I'll give it a shot to change my mind on a re-watch (which will probably be on home video).

 

Initially: 8.5/10.  Subject to re-watch and how I ultimately feel about the ending.

Edited May 18, 2019 by Porthos

[baumer]

@Porthos....they'll probably milk it for another two or three movies and if you are right, and I hope you are, I could see Wick going out in the same way that Maximus did in Gladiator...like Wick has to fight to the death with someone from the High Table and before he does fight them, he is knifed with poison or something.  He defeats the top guy, leaving Sofia in charge or Winston or Bowery King or Charon or somebody.  He dies for everyone's freedom and then Sofia gets off a line similar to what Connie Nielsen had in Gladiator....."Is The Continental worth one good man's life? We believed it once. Make us believe it again. He was a soldier of Death. Honor him."  And then Sofia's dogs, his dog and all of his allies or people who respect him, give him a funeral for the ages.....and just like in Gladiator, you see him going to the afterlife to meet his wife.

[Porthos]

22 hours ago, baumer said:

 I didn't buy that Winston would kill him

Now this I did believe.  Looking back it hangs together rather well. 

 

When it happened, I was... curious why the hell Wick was allowed safe passage in the Continental at the end of the film, and it was obvious that Zero (Mark Dacascos' character) was confused as well.  But as I think of the plot, it was pretty obvious that Winston saw the only way to stay as the head of the Continental was "a skirmish", as he put it.

 

He had to bloody the nose of the High Table enough to keep them from going to an all out war.  So he used John Wick there.  He bet he could stop Wick from killing him in a face to face meeting and deliver enough carnage to buy back his good graces with the High Table.  It was a high stakes bet, but since he was already doomed might as well take it.

 

It's a betrayal, yes.  But it makes sense within the framework of the plot.  If one must, I'm sure Winston already feels whatever debts needed to be repaid we paid and then some.  But for all his sophistication and grace, he still isn't a good person.  I'm sure he would rather not have Wick be thrown to the wolves.  But he still looks out for Number One.

 

And this was telegraphed earlier in the film between the way Winston handled the Adjudicator and how the Bowery King did.  Winston accepted things with good grace and in retrospect was already scheming. The Bowery King told the Adjudicator to go fuck herself, basically.  It showed within the film which character "would play by the rules"/inside the system and which wouldn't.

 

So that made sense to me.  If anything the film revealed what kind of character Winston was at his core and what kind of character the Bowery King was at his.   It also showed the difference between Winston and Sofia, come to think of it.

 

Worked for me and then some.

Edited May 18, 2019 by Porthos

[Porthos]

4 minutes ago, baumer said:

@Porthos....they'll probably milk it for another two or three movies and if you are right, and I hope you are, I could see Wick going out in the same way that Maximus did in Gladiator...like Wick has to fight to the death with someone from the Order and before he does fight them, he is knifed with poison or something.  He defeats the top guy, leaving Sofia in charge or Winston or Bowery King or Charon or somebody.  He dies for everyone's freedom and then Sofia gets off a line similar to what Connie Nielsen had in Gladiator....."Is The Continental worth one good man's life? We believed it once. Make us believe it again. He was a soldier of Death. Honor him."  And then Sofia's dogs, his dog and all of his allies or people who respect him, give him a funeral for the ages.....and just like in Gladiator, you see him going to the afterlife to meet his wife.

I agree with most of this, but I think Winston is a Dead Man Walking.  Folks don't betray Wick like that and get to breathe air too much longer.

Edited May 18, 2019 by Porthos

[baumer]

25 minutes ago, Porthos said:

I agree with most of this, but I think Winston is a Dead Man Walking.  Folks don't betray Wick like that and get to breathe air too much longer.

 

You're right!  After reading your explanation as to why Winston would kill him, this makes a lot of sense.  

[Frozen]

Did he betray him or did they set it up? I was confused about that. 

[andrewgr]

My theory is Winston and Wick planned it.  Wick was either wearing a bullet proof jacket and Winston was intentionally not shooting his head, or else he was shooting blanks.

 

The fact that the guy was ready and waiting to quickly gather Wick up and take him to The Bowry King, who spoke as if he was expecting him, lends support to this.

 

Then the question is, what about that ridiculously brutal fall?  I think there are two possibilities.  First, the film makers just messed up a bit and strained credulity too far by letting him survive; or second, that someone was ready and waiting to throw one of the many available corpses out a top floor window, while John was clinging to a ledge or whatever.

 

This sets up new ground for JW4: with the world believing John to be dead or at least out of action (remember Winston "shot" him like 4 or 5 times before the fall), he could spend part or all of the next movie in unseen assassin mode, which would allow some new types of tension, action sequences, and world building. 

Edited May 19, 2019 by andrewgr

[Porthos]

Just now, Frozen said:

Did he betray him or did they set it up? I was confused about that. 

Betray, IMO.  

 

The High Table wanted either Wick or Winston dead.  If Wick killed Winston; debt discharged and he goes back to service.  If Wick didn't kill Winston, then it's time to take out the trash.  

 

Winston just had other ideas.  A high stakes game of poker that required a lot of variables to click, but they mostly clicked.

 

...

 

Winston's problem was that he didn't aim for the head at the end.

[Porthos]

2 minutes ago, andrewgr said:

My theory is Winston and Wick planned it.  Wick was either wearing a bullet proof jacket and Winston was intentionally not shooting his head, or else he was shooting blanks.

 

The fact that the guy was ready and waiting to quickly gather Wick up and take him to The Bowry King, who spoke as if he was expecting him, lends support to this.

 

Then the question is, what about that ridiculously brutal fall?  I think there are two possibilities.  First, the film makers just messed up a bit and strained credulity too far by letting him survive; or second, that someone was ready and waiting to throw one of the many available corpses out a top floor window, while John was clinging to a ledge or whatever.

 

This sets up new ground for JW4: with the world believing John to be dead or at least out of action (remember Winston "shot" him like 4 or 5 times before the fall), he could spend part or all of the next movie in unseen assassin mode, which would allow some new types of tension, action sequences, and world building. 

Interesting.  We'll see I suppose.

 

Really couldn't comment on your post in the WE thread, BTW.   Mods are pretty strict on that sort of thing, even by implication.

 

Do like the bulletproof vest suggestion.  Not so much the Winston thing as it comes a wee bit too close to retcon for me.

 

Yes, re-contextualzation instead of retroactive continuity is probably the better way to put it.  It'd have to be done very very well for me to buy it, is how I would put it.

[baumer]

I will say this in support of the cahoots theory....Winston certainly seemed really blase, almost amused when the adjudicator says that Wicks body is missing.