The Flash | June 16 2023 | Ezra Miller, Michael Keaton | We’re stoping the count at a Nice 69% RT (it’s 72% For Real) | Please Remember that Your Enjoyment Of The Film is Not Based On Others Opinions And To Be Nice To Each Other

[Sheldon Cr]

1 hour ago, JWR said:

 

If it flops, it'll mostly be due to the DC brand not being a strong pull and maybe Miller's antics if it gets worse or WB is unable to keep that from the general public.

Brother JWR if they don't replace Miller I hope it truly is a flaming disaster. Though I really wanted to see the Return of Micheal Keaton as Batman ..  The cool thing is , Im sure he'll be popping up in other DC projects besides Flash. So I will see one of my favorite Batmans on the screen again at some point.

 

Also Still time for rational heads to override Gunn and kick miller  out  and dare I say write a check and bring back Henry Caville.

The fans will be watching indeed brother. 

[JWR]

14 minutes ago, Sheldon Cr said:

Brother JWR if they don't replace Miller I hope it truly is a flaming disaster. Though I really wanted to see the Return of Micheal Keaton as Batman ..  The cool thing is , Im sure he'll be popping up in other DC projects besides Flash. So I will see one of my favorite Batmans on the screen again at some point.

 

Also Still time for rational heads to override Gunn and kick miller  out  and dare I say write a check and bring back Henry Caville.

The fans will be watching indeed brother. 

 

I don't get the impression that Gunn and Safran are in favor of keeping Miller. 

[Sheldon Cr]

1 minute ago, JWR said:

 

I don't get the impression that Gunn and Safran are in favor of keeping Miller. 

I certainly hope not. Already not feeling the decision to not give Henry that official Man of Steel Film. Especially after the black adam cutscene.

[ChipDerby]

-As I know it, the Ezra issues began in mid-2020 with that fan "choking" situation that seems more complicated than was first reported. Obviously not a good look, but it started a pattern.

 

-Then Ezra made that video threatening the KKK. Which, cool imo, but not cool as far as the pattern.

 

-The 2 Hawaii bar incidents. Nothing super disturbing, most likely alcohol abuse, etc. Nothing really came from these. But again, pattern.

 

-Another Hawaii incident, though the restraining order was dropped?? Again, pattern.

 

-Then the chair throw/arrest. Don't know the entire situation, maybe it was just a fight that got out of control, etc. But... pattern!!

 

-The grooming? accusations. Who knows what to make of these. It's entirely possible this is true, or it's entirely possible the parents are nuts and accuse everyone of grooming. Not nothing!

 

-The burglary thing. Still the weirdest one because of disputed reports.

 

All of this adds up to a really, really bad year for Ezra. It could entirely be alcohol/mental health related, and people should acknowledge that. It could be because Ezra isn't a good person (though prior to these incidents, there doesn't seem to be any history of this behavior)

They obviously can't replace Ezra in the film, that's ridiculous and anyone suggesting that is not a serious person. The COULD not release the film, but people seem to actually like it, so even if a large portion of the audience was anti-Ezra, that's leaving a lot of money out there. 

 

A lot of actors have past issues, whether it be drugs, alcohol, violence, etc. There are a lot of people out there who DO keep up on that stuff and refuse to watch their movies/shows. Rehab (actual rehab!) can help people, and can help their reputation. If Ezra is actually going through this, and does take responsibility for their actions, good for them. Does that mean they're entitled to remain as The Flash? No. DC/WB can do what they want. 

 

People are complicated. As I've mentioned, there are people who will cut Ezra out of their viewing habits, but cheer on Bill Murray or Jeremy Renner. People are complicated.

[poweranimals]

WB isn't going to throw Ezra under the bus before the Flash movie comes out. There's no way he continues beyond this,

Edited January 5, 2023 by poweranimals

[WittyUsername]

This could be a make or break film for WBD, if they’re bleeding as much money as these journalists are claiming. I could see why they maybe wouldn’t want to say upfront that they’re cutting ties with the film’s star before release. 
 

By the way, is this officially the oldest thread on BOT for a movie that hasn’t been released yet? 

[Macleod]

17 hours ago, Sheldon Cr said:

I can see it being an instant flop. As there are petitions online to remove that fool. It cost nearly 250Mil.  Imagine if it opens to 30m or less. I'd do the slight expensive Crow Technology thats vastly been improved on nowadays and digitally replace him..  Doing reshoots when necessary.

 

Petitions usually don't have much correlation to who actually shows up at the Box Office/or who watches on a streaming network.  And Ezra plays at least two main roles in the film...and even that is only what's been barely publicly revealed so far.  There's more behind the facade...  Miller's transgressions over the past year are numerous and notable, but at least a couple of them are not fully proven to be true.  They may be a troubled individual, but they aren't a murderer, and unless they become one, I can't see Warner Bros. changing aim to release the movie.  They're going to put it out there and see if it sticks.  It apparently has enough other valuable elements in it that have gone over extremely well with test audiences. 

 

14 hours ago, Sheldon Cr said:

Brother JWR if they don't replace Miller I hope it truly is a flaming disaster. Though I really wanted to see the Return of Micheal Keaton as Batman ..  The cool thing is , Im sure he'll be popping up in other DC projects besides Flash. So I will see one of my favorite Batmans on the screen again at some point.

 

That was the previous plan, for Keaton to recur in multiple movies.  But the plans seem to have changed.  All indications (Aquabro 2 reshoot cuts), events (Batgirl cancellation), and WBD David Zaslav rhetoric ("There won't be four Batmans") seem to be that Keaton's planned ongoing DC gig will now not materialize (sad, as I'm a fan, too).  My bet is that it's one and done for Keaton. 

 

All due respect brother Sheldon, but it was time for Cavill 'et al' to go.  If Cavill fans were really in the tens of millions of active box office supporters, they would have pushed Black Adam over the $500-$600 mil. hurdle, where it would have at least looked respectable...and may have generated some possibility for Cavill to remain.  But it couldn't even reach $400 mil. WW.  And since D. Johnson insisted on going around his studio partners (Hamada) and so heavily hyping Cavill's return as a promotional part of Black Adam, the movie's failure takes any chance Cavill had to stay down with it.  

Edited January 6, 2023 by Macleod

[kayumanggi]

Andy Muschietti:

 

Edited January 9, 2023 by kayumanggi

[dudalb]

On 1/5/2023 at 1:26 PM, poweranimals said:

WB isn't going to throw Ezra under the bus before the Flash movie comes out. There's no way he continues beyond this,

If nothng else, the completion insurance on anything with Miller would be really expesnsive. And the risk he would fall off the wagon is too great.'

I also think WB's lawyers have told the studio that "no comment" on Ezra's legal woes is the smart play to make.

[Sheldon Cr]

On 1/6/2023 at 12:13 AM, Macleod said:

 

Petitions usually don't have much correlation to who actually shows up at the Box Office/or who watches on a streaming network.  And Ezra plays at least two main roles in the film...and even that is only what's been barely publicly revealed so far.  There's more behind the facade...  Miller's transgressions over the past year are numerous and notable, but at least a couple of them are not fully proven to be true.  They may be a troubled individual, but they aren't a murderer, and unless they become one, I can't see Warner Bros. changing aim to release the movie.  They're going to put it out there and see if it sticks.  It apparently has enough other valuable elements in it that have gone over extremely well with test audiences. 

 

 

That was the previous plan, for Keaton to recur in multiple movies.  But the plans seem to have changed.  All indications (Aquabro 2 reshoot cuts), events (Batgirl cancellation), and WBD David Zaslav rhetoric ("There won't be four Batmans") seem to be that Keaton's planned ongoing DC gig will now not materialize (sad, as I'm a fan, too).  My bet is that it's one and done for Keaton. 

 

All due respect brother Sheldon, but it was time for Cavill 'et al' to go.  If Cavill fans were really in the tens of millions of active box office supporters, they would have pushed Black Adam over the $500-$600 mil. hurdle, where it would have at least looked respectable...and may have generated some possibility for Cavill to remain.  But it couldn't even reach $400 mil. WW.  And since D. Johnson insisted on going around his studio partners (Hamada) and so heavily hyping Cavill's return as a promotional part of Black Adam, the movie's failure takes any chance Cavill had to stay down with it.  

If It was promoted he would do something that was significant and it leads to Mos2 then thats something. So I disagree brother, some fans didn't  even know superman was in the movie until Black Adam was already looking like a flop. DC did a terrible job of promoting the Henry cameo. You bet had they had a big director and caville was back as supes it would have been huge.

Henry also wanting a.15-25mil dollar paycheck and more creative control allegedly didn't help matters either. I still hope someone will fix this and get us a proper MOS2 sequel with Caville as the lead.  I think Henry was the perfect modern day superman( MOS just needed better writing).

 

i think they would have just needed  to work on the man who Is superman aka. The Clark Kent persona more.

 

Best supes and Clark Kent ever big screen or small will always be Christopher Reeves and I think an honorable mention has to go to Tom Welling of Smallville.  Too bad he turned it down back in 2007-2009. He was so good in smallville.

And Micheal Rosenbaums Lex Luthor is the best of all time. And yes I feel he bests even Hackman"s legendary Lex bigtime in my opinion and apparently many fan polls felt the same way. Would love to see him as a big budget big screen Lex Luthor. He has even expressed interest in his hit podcast online.

This new younger superman reboots sounds like a crash and burn project in the making. The new DC needs to really think over yet another reboot that folks never asked for.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Sheldon Cr
Editing post

[Macleod]

1 hour ago, Sheldon Cr said:

If It was promoted he would do something that was significant and it leads to Mos2 then thats something. So I disagree brother, some fans didn't  even know superman was in the movie until Black Adam was already looking like a flop. DC did a terrible job of promoting the Henry cameo. You bet had they had a big director and caville was back as supes it would have been huge.

 

Best supes and Clark Kent ever big screen or small will always be Christopher Reeves and I think an honorable mention has to go to Tom Welling of Smallville.  Too bad he turned it down back in 2007-2009. He was so good in smallville.

And Micheal Rosenbaums Lex Luthor is the best of all time. And yes I feel he bests even Hackman"s legendary Lex bigtime in my opinion and apparently many fan polls felt the same way. Would love to see him as a big budget big screen Lex Luthor. He has even expressed interest in his hit podcast online.

This new younger superman reboots sounds like a crash and burn project in the making. The new DC needs to really think over yet another reboot that folks never asked for.

 

Warner Bros./DC was clearly not interested in publicly promoting Cavill's Superman as part of Black Adam until after the movie opened, because it was a post-credits tease -- It was ALL The Rock's doing in the weeks leading up and at the premiere, because yes, he must have read the tracking, and realized they were desperate to get people into theaters.  There was clearly disagreement behind the scenes -- if the studio were truly behind Cavill, they would have signed him back on years ago.  Plus, there was no real "DC Studios" organization in place in the fall just prior to Black Adam's release, as Walter Hamada was on his way out.  Cavill then "announced" on his Instagram the next week, which he "apparently" had some Warner Bros. studio approval for, but some reports dispute this.  But none of it matters because Black Adam flopped and of course the whole DC Regime changed during the fall.  So the old plans were out. 

 

There is no evidence that Welling was ever officially offered a Superman feature, especially not in 2007-2009, and he was of course always reluctant to wear the full suit at all.  He DID meet with director Brett Ratner in 2004 when Ratner was attached to Superman: Flyby, a previous iteration of what later became Superman Returns -- Welling talked about that, himself.  But there is still no evidence that Welling was ever *officially* offered the role.  The irony is of course that Smallville remained phenomenally successful for Warner Bros. (some say one of their most successful TV series, ever) and yes, continues to have a well-loved legacy that is arguably greater than the last few Superman feature films.  I love Welling and Rosenbaum in those roles, but most indications are that they will never play them again, at least not on the big screen.  Both of them have come around to appreciating the legacy lately, of course. 

 

But anyway...I guess we should get back to...THE FLASH! 

Edited January 10, 2023 by Macleod

[dudalb]

Cavill is through as Supes, sort of pointless to discuss it.

Thing probably driving Warners crazy about marketing the Flash is so much impacting the film is out of it's hands, and in the hands of the US Legal system. They almost certainly have different plans ready for whatever happens.

[Sheldon Cr]

7 hours ago, dudalb said:

Cavill is through as Supes, sort of pointless to discuss it.

Thing probably driving Warners crazy about marketing the Flash is so much impacting the film is out of it's hands, and in the hands of the US Legal system. They almost certainly have different plans ready for whatever happens.

Nothing is over when DC got the money to change things.. Rem brother Dudalb.. They said the same thing on Tobey Maguire and Hugh Jackman coming back as well not long ago.. Money and actors just really missing the fame or the fun they had in the role works wonders!. Im really thinking that Flash movie will be retooled, why lose money if you can do reshoots and digitally remove a troubled actor from scenes. I just cant see a ton of people supporting Miller all. Dude has videos of him fighting  fans and actually choking a female reaching millions of views..  Then again Im talking about a company that thought that the first version of Justice League was good enough to release over the Snyders cut... So perhaps they are determined to send DC to obilivion and will continue to try and sell Miller as a redeemed actor and as the Flash..

My money is on the latter happening though

[Sheldon Cr]

20 hours ago, Macleod said:

 

Warner Bros./DC was clearly not interested in publicly promoting Cavill's Superman as part of Black Adam until after the movie opened, because it was a post-credits tease -- It was ALL The Rock's doing in the weeks leading up and at the premiere, because yes, he must have read the tracking, and realized they were desperate to get people into theaters.  There was clearly disagreement behind the scenes -- if the studio were truly behind Cavill, they would have signed him back on years ago.  Plus, there was no real "DC Studios" organization in place in the fall just prior to Black Adam's release, as Walter Hamada was on his way out.  Cavill then "announced" on his Instagram the next week, which he "apparently" had some Warner Bros. studio approval for, but some reports dispute this.  But none of it matters because Black Adam flopped and of course the whole DC Regime changed during the fall.  So the old plans were out. 

 

There is no evidence that Welling was ever officially offered a Superman feature, especially not in 2007-2009, and he was of course always reluctant to wear the full suit at all.  He DID meet with director Brett Ratner in 2004 when Ratner was attached to Superman: Flyby, a previous iteration of what later became Superman Returns -- Welling talked about that, himself.  But there is still no evidence that Welling was ever *officially* offered the role.  The irony is of course that Smallville remained phenomenally successful for Warner Bros. (some say one of their most successful TV series, ever) and yes, continues to have a well-loved legacy that is arguably greater than the last few Superman feature films.  I love Welling and Rosenbaum in those roles, but most indications are that they will never play them again, at least not on the big screen.  Both of them have come around to appreciating the legacy lately, of course. 

 

But anyway...I guess we should get back to...THE FLASH! 

I remember a few  producers have said he was offered the role multiple times, so I  definitely believe he   turned it down back when the big  Superman Project that became Returns was in development hell.. Aka 2004-2006 era(Seemed to feel he was better as clark kent and it might have killed the mega hit Smallville Show).   I think he likely regrets not doing the films as he could have become the best Superman since Reeve(well if the script was good of course).  And unfortunately Tom could not anticipate a future of a more openminded type of hwood in which many actors who have don famour SH roles were allowed to do other things,

If your good and carry a fanbase he no longer had to have that career killing stigman as the guy who played Superman and no one gives you a shot at anything else. Hence we have Hugh, Evans, Robert Downey Jr who has played two famous Heroes successfully now)

 

(Ironically none of his other projects soared as big as smallville success , but he definitely does embrace his legacy as  the longest guy to ever play Clark in any medium brother Macelod.  Im enjoying  the talkville Podcast both  he and Micheal got going on nowadays) 

 

What do you think they will do with Ezras Miller at this point btw?  As wild as that suggestion was by fans.. I think they actually could digitally replace him and reshoot some scenes to make Miller less central to the plot. Does the new WB risk a big backlash with this film ending with Miller as the future of the Flash brand?

 

Edited January 11, 2023 by Sheldon Cr
Just updating

[Flip]

I'm sure I'm going to end up disappointed, but the confidence WB has in this (screening reactions, super bowl spot) gives me too much hope than I realistically should have

[Sheldon Cr]

27 minutes ago, Flip said:

I'm sure I'm going to end up disappointed, but the confidence WB has in this (screening reactions, super bowl spot) gives me too much hope than I realistically should have

Theres a trailer rumored to come out for this film brother Flip??

[WittyUsername]

Ezra Miller drama aside, I don’t know how much I can really look forward to this movie if this whole continuity is just getting thrown away to make way for a reboot. It doesn’t matter how good this movie apparently is, I don’t see how WB expects people to be excited about a movie that’s basically a cinematic dead end.
 

The only other way I can rationalize this is if the new Superman movie will take place in the post-Flash timeline, and they’ll use that to hand wave why Superman and his supporting cast will be placed by different people, but I don’t think I’d like that. Assuming that’s what the plan is, they might as well have just kept Cavill. 

30 minutes ago, Sheldon Cr said:

Theres a trailer rumored to come out for this film brother Flip??

The trailer will be attached to the Super Bowl. 

[BadOlCatSylvester]

48 minutes ago, WittyUsername said:

The only other way I can rationalize this is if the new Superman movie will take place in the post-Flash timeline, and they’ll use that to hand wave why Superman and his supporting cast will be placed by different people, but I don’t think I’d like that. Assuming that’s what the plan is, they might as well have just kept Cavill.

That would require spending more money on the movie to shoot a new ending featuring the new Superman actor, and aside from the Super Bowl spot I doubt Warner wants to blow more money on this than they have to.

[Sheldon Cr]

2 hours ago, WittyUsername said:

Ezra Miller drama aside, I don’t know how much I can really look forward to this movie if this whole continuity is just getting thrown away to make way for a reboot. It doesn’t matter how good this movie apparently is, I don’t see how WB expects people to be excited about a movie that’s basically a cinematic dead end.
 

The only other way I can rationalize this is if the new Superman movie will take place in the post-Flash timeline, and they’ll use that to hand wave why Superman and his supporting cast will be placed by different people, but I don’t think I’d like that. Assuming that’s what the plan is, they might as well have just kept Cavill. 

The trailer will be attached to the Super Bowl. 

 

Thanks Brother Witty :).

 

".... Meantime"  >. Batman on Flash movie 

 

"Tell Me Ezra and Warner  Discovery.... " DO YOU BLEED??"    " YOU WILLLl!""

Edited January 11, 2023 by Sheldon Cr
Update

[Macleod]

11 hours ago, Sheldon Cr said:

What do you think they will do with Ezras Miller at this point btw?  As wild as that suggestion was by fans.. I think they actually could digitally replace him and reshoot some scenes to make Miller less central to the plot. Does the new WB risk a big backlash with this film ending with Miller as the future of the Flash brand?

 

All indications are from the trade buzz that Warner Bros. is not doing this -- even if it was possible, they've spent so much on the movie already, and it's too cost-prohibitive for this particular movie based on the dramatic setup of the film and Miller's multiple presences in it (often multiple Millers sharing the same shots and scenes).  This is not an "All the Money in the World"/Christopher Plummer situation.  Plus, all the buzzed test-screening responses, if we want to believe them, seems grand, regardless.  I don't see them changing much of the core of the movie. 

Edited January 11, 2023 by Macleod