April 14th-16th 2023 Weekend Thread | $900K previews for Renfield

[Krissykins]

19 minutes ago, John Marston said:

I don’t know. It kind of has a cult following but I think most people see it as that weird and gross movie 

This is just complete and utter nonsense lol. 

[John Marston]

Just now, Krissykins said:

This is just complete and utter nonsense lol. 

 

 

how? There is no indication that general audiences ever embraced Batman Returns

[screambaby]

1 hour ago, Count Eric said:

I don't understand the whole "Indy 5 will do bad because Indy 4 was also bad". Like that came out 15 years ago. That's plenty of time for its stink to wear off. And this is also like arguing that because the prequels were bad that Force Awakens would do bad too.

Intrsesting checked indy 4 box office and it made almost 800 million world wide

 So even wif people weren't in love with it I don't get 

The automatic assertion 5 wil flop

[grey ghost]

1 minute ago, John Marston said:

 

 

how? There is no indication that general audiences ever embraced Batman Returns

 

The box office was only considered a disappointment relative to Bstman (89) which was a pop culture phenomenon.

 

I mean Batman Forever was more successful also but I think BR would make more top 10 DC movie rankings today.

[narniadis]

2 minutes ago, screambaby said:

Intrsesting checked indy 4 box office and it made almost 800 million world wide

 So even wif people weren't in love with it I don't get 

The automatic assertion 5 wil flop

Correct. Due to it being 2008 and getting lost in how big Iron Man and TDK were, people forget it was "large" just not as large as pre summer hopes. @baumer may remember, but that was the first summer game he ever did and I think there were several expectations of it doing 400m~ or so. 

[JohnnyGossamer]

5 minutes ago, grey ghost said:

 

The box office was only considered a disappointment relative to Bstman (89) which was a pop culture phenomenon.

 

I mean Batman Forever was more successful also but I think BR would make more top 10 DC movie rankings today.

This. While not as successful at the box office as Forever (though it was somewhat close) it's aged considerably better. People forget that, at least when initially released, Forever was kind of well liked by general moviegoers. Huge cast and completely silly. Carrey was ENORMOUS at the time. Jones was big time too coming off Fugitive. Kilmer was a star and considered a good enough replacement. Adding Robin was something people liked too. That said, I do not believe that one's aged well at all. But, definitely was popular when released.

 

Returns gained popularity through the years though and Forever lost it a good deal. Dan Waters screenplay is honestly smart as fuck and super funny... Could feel his stylings too and sense of his grim, twisty sense fun and humor that was very much a thing in his Heathers (another great movie) screenplay too.

 

Completely different era for superhero movies that honestly pretty much ended after Nolan's run. But, Burton, Shumacker, Raimi, Nolan, Singer had their sensibilities, styling all over their superhero flicks. Directors got much, much of room to create until the boom and shared universe thing became the thing. And, honestly, even in the standalones, you can still see. Even Joker shoehorned the Wayne family junk including death into the movie. 

[B D Joe]

Returns is great.

Edited July 21, 2023 by B D Joe

[grey ghost]

3 minutes ago, JohnnyGossamer said:

This. While not as successful at the box office as Forever (though it was somewhat close) it's aged considerably better. People forget that, at least when initially released, Forever was kind of well liked by general moviegoers. Huge cast and completely silly. Carrey was ENORMOUS at the time. Jones was big time too coming off Fugitive. Kilmer was a star and considered a good enough replacement. Adding Robin was something people liked too. That said, I do not believe that one's aged well at all. But, definitely was popular when released.

 

Returns gained popularity through the years though and Forever lost it a good deal. Dan Waters screenplay is honestly smart as fuck and super funny... Could feel his stylings too and sense of his grim, twisty sense fun and humor that was very much a thing in his Heathers (another great movie) screenplay too.

 

Completely different era for superhero movies that honestly pretty much ended after Nolan's run. But, Burton, Shumacker, Raimi, Nolan, Singer had their sensibilities, styling all over their superhero flicks. Directors got much, much of room to create until the boom and shared universe thing became the thing. And, honestly, even in the standalones, you can still see. Even Joker shoehorned the Wayne family junk including death into the movie. 

 

 

Also both Returns and Forever did this thing where the villains were obviously mirroring Batman's psyche.

 

I think Returns did a better job with these parallels. Yeah it's overdone with the penguins and cats but the whole traumatized freak and orphans was explored in a way that gave greater appreciation for Batman's rogue gallery. Forever tried to some extent but was way too childish overall.

[JohnnyGossamer]

1 minute ago, grey ghost said:

 

 

Also both Returns and Forever did this thing where the villains were obviously mirroring Batman's psyche.

 

I think Returns did a better job with these parallels. Yeah it's overdone with the penguins and cats but the whole traumatized freak and orphans was explored in a way that gave greater appreciation for Batman's rogue gallery. Forever tried to some extent but was way too childish overall.

I agree love the penguins and cats though too. Just pure grotesque fantasy spectacle filmmaking. Love it.

[wildphantom]

I’d be seeing Flash at some point in its opening week, but the Keaton factor has me there opening night. There’ll be plenty of people who were kids and older in 1989 who will be going for the same reason. 
 

Reception needs to be good, but I can’t see this not being close to the biggest grosser post-Guardians of the summer. 
 

As for Indy, it’s my most anticipated along with MI7 and Oppenheimer. Have to say I saw a six minute action sequence from the middle of the movie at Star Wars Celebration and it didn’t exactly blow me away. I’m still hopeful though, and think it’ll do really well as long as it’s good. 
 

Lastly, Batman Returns rules. 
 

[PlatnumRoyce]

1 hour ago, screambaby said:

Intrsesting checked indy 4 box office and it made almost 800 million world wide

 So even wif people weren't in love with it I don't get 

The automatic assertion 5 wil flop

On the other hand "fuck the prequels, we're going back to real star wars" has to be easier marketing jiujitsu than "Harrison Ford was way too old to play Indiana Jones 15 years ago but that's not a problem now"

[Krissykins]

1 hour ago, John Marston said:

 

 

how? There is no indication that general audiences ever embraced Batman Returns

Where’s the proof of your indication that the majority of people find it gross and weird? Just a glib sweeping statement to suit your own opinion.

 

 

[WittyUsername]

On the subject of the Burton Batman films, I personally have never been very enthusiastic about them, or Burton’s filmography in general, but I’d be lying if I claimed that those movies don’t have a healthy following. I noticed that as far back as when the Nolan movies were still the hot new thing. 
 

With that said, Batman Returns definitely didn’t fare well with audiences back in the day. That was the whole reason the Schumacher movies went in a different direction. It was basically the BvS of its time.

 

Between the Flash movie and Indy 5, I guess I’d say that I’m more enthusiastic about the latter at this point. I’m finding it increasingly difficult to get excited about anything from WBD, and that’s without factoring in that it’s part of a dead universe. 

On another note, it’s amusing to think that we now once again have Indiana Jones facing off against Michael Keaton’s Batman, just like in 1989. 

 

Edited April 15, 2023 by WittyUsername

[Eric is Quiet]

2 hours ago, grey ghost said:

 

Jusy curious did I say something that warranted an insult?

No. I was just being silly and making a joke. I apologize if that was an insult, but it was not my intention whatsoever.

[JohnnyGossamer]

12 minutes ago, WittyUsername said:

On the subject of the Burton Batman films, I personally have never been very enthusiastic about them, or Burton’s filmography in general, but I’d be lying if I claimed that those movies don’t have a healthy following. I noticed that as far back as when the Nolan movies were still the hot new thing. 
 

With that said, Batman Returns definitely didn’t fare well with audiences back in the day. That was the whole reason the Schumacher movies went in a different direction. It was basically the BvS of its time.

 

Between the Flash movie and Indy 5, I guess I’d say that I’m more enthusiastic about the latter at this point. I’m finding it increasingly difficult to get excited about anything from WBD, and that’s without factoring in that it’s part of a dead universe. 

On another note, it’s amusing to think that we now once again have Indiana Jones facing off against Michael Keaton’s Batman, just like in 1989. 

 

It's a stretch to compare it to BvS as it was absolutely received better than BvS. At least by critics at the time... It's currently at 68 at MC and 81 at RT and I think a lot of those reviews are old reviews dug up from when its initial release. And, has aged better than BvS. I recall when it released pretty everyone at least loved Pfeiffer and DeVito... Especially Pfeiffer. I don't actually think there is a current comparison for BR with newer superhero movies. It really is its own thing.

Edited April 15, 2023 by JohnnyGossamer

[superduperm]

Ugh I’m way too much of a junkie. Checking this forum every hour on a Saturday for Mario updates 😅😂

 

Anybody have a Discord group or something I can join? Would be better for my sanity if I just let the updates come to me instead lol

[Ipickthiswhiterose]

If there is such a thing as people who think Batman Returns is the bad one, I have never heard of them.

 

Batman (1989) was a huge cultural zeitgeist movie and the sequel was almost guaranteed not to do as well. Not least because the cultural pace was moving incredibly quickly around that time and if something came from just a few years ago it was perceived as lame really rather quickly. Of course, Returns did have a big target on its back and there were arguments about the tone. 

 

But my understanding was that modern perceptions framed Returns as one of the very best.

 

Which, also, it is. Quite - to me, anyway - obviously. 

 

I mean I'm a 1. Returns, 2. Batman 66, 3. Batman 89, 4. The BMan, 5 Begins kind of guy. But I'm aware that TDK would be on average thought of as the number one by the general audience. But Returns would be fighting for number two alongside 89 and TB. Pfeiffer, Walken and DeVito are surely all iconic.

[Eric is Quiet]

Re: Returns' reception

 

Like yes, it was very divisive with audiences at the time, but that was also over 30 years ago and I think there's definitely been reappraisal and a huge fandom for it today. Times change and so do tastes and I think Returns has a big fanbase today. I also think Keaton has a big fanbase, but I'm not gonna get into that argument again.

[wildphantom]

Batman Returns had a 3.6 multiplier and the biggest opening weekend of all time. 
 

Merchandise was the one that was down as they threw the kitchen sink at it, and the darker, more twisted tone of the film meant the merch didn’t sell as well as hoped. 

 

The reception to the film was more shock at how screwed up and weird it was, rather than people didn’t like it. Duly WB went the extreme other way and we had to wait until 2005 for another good Batman film. 
 

The Penguin bite and Catwoman’s brutal claw kill of that mugger - unbelievable when you look back.  Then parents were meant to go buy the happy meal. Lmao. 

Great stuff. 

[John Marston]

28 minutes ago, Krissykins said:

Where’s the proof of your indication that the majority of people find it gross and weird? Just a glib sweeping statement to suit your own opinion.

 

 

 

that was the reaction at the the time and while it has gained a cult following I don’t think if you go and ask the average person who will get much enthusiasm  for BR