WGA/SAGAFTRA Strike Discussion Thread | SAG Ratifies Contract

[dudalb]

2 minutes ago, Cappoedameron said:

What streaming services need to do is adapt the standard of Pilots. Don't just greenlight for 10 episodes a show without thinking it will bring in an audience. 

 

What I would do is film a Pilot have it be on the streaming service for a month and from there they can pick up data on whether there's interest to actually greenlight the show to a full series order.

Problem is it is very  hard to sign up good writers and directors for just one month of shows.

Edited June 23, 2023 by dudalb

[Cappoedameron]

Just now, dudalb said:

Problem is it is very  hard to sign up good people for just one month of shows.

I promise you people that have Paramount Plus are not signing up for exclusive shows. They're signing up for Paramount Plus the same reason they sign up for Disney Plus.

 

It's the home of childhood nostalgia and hosts every single Nick show to date, that was enough for me to get the streaming service. Also Paramount Plus is about to merge with Showtime.

[AJG]

11 minutes ago, dudalb said:

Explain why a network should keep showing a show that audiences have shown they don't want to watch.

Until recently, one season failed TV shows vanished never to be heard of again...not worth syndicating.

You’re dead right. TV Shows used to be cancelled and just VANISH. We had a time where cancelled shows would go to iTunes or DVD, but I’ll take a wild guess that in 2023 studios will likely save more money deleting these shows than they would gain by keeping them available for sale.

[ZeroHour]

6 minutes ago, Cappoedameron said:

What streaming services need to do is adapt the standard of Pilots. Don't just greenlight for 10 episodes a show without thinking it will bring in an audience. The Grease show SCREAMED bomb from the the first look.

 

What I would do is film a Pilot have it be on the streaming service for a month and from there they can pick up data on whether there's interest to actually greenlight the show to a full series order.

Amazon tried that for awhile and it just never really worked. People move on to other things too quickly in the streaming age. Plus, unless you're Netflix, shows need big promotional campaigns to get sampling and that probably wouldn't be worth it for a pilot that would then need another expensive promotional campaign a year later when the full season is ready.

[ringedmortality]

Just now, ZeroHour said:

Amazon tried that for awhile and it just never really worked.

 

I remember that. I don't buy that they ever actually used any of the votes. The Tick seemed like the type of thing they were gonna greenlight anyway and Marvelous Mrs Maisel was from a duo who had an incredibly popular show under their belts.

[SchumacherFTW]

2 minutes ago, ZeroHour said:

Amazon tried that for awhile and it just never really worked. People move on to other things too quickly in the streaming age. Plus, unless you're Netflix, shows need big promotional campaigns to get sampling and that probably wouldn't be worth it for a pilot that would then need another expensive promotional campaign a year later when the full season is ready.

Could always advertise a pilot season, drop a few shows and not just dump them like amazon did. Actually that's generally what amazon does. 

[AJG]

Also: has any other TV show been cancelled THREE TIMES?

 

 

[Cappoedameron]

I mean if the SAG contract expires there will be no writers or actors at the event so of course.

 

Comic Con is going the way of E3 and man is that a sad reality.

[dudalb]

3 minutes ago, Cappoedameron said:

I mean if the SAG contract expires there will be no writers or actors at the event so of course.

 

Comic Con is going the way of E3 and man is that a sad reality.

Or maybe it can go back to being about comics....

I would not read a lot into one year with no big presentations; a one off because of the strike.

The studios will show up, but they will be reduced to the modern equivilent of handing out press releases.

[dudalb]

23 minutes ago, AJG said:

You’re dead right. TV Shows used to be cancelled and just VANISH. We had a time where cancelled shows would go to iTunes or DVD, but I’ll take a wild guess that in 2023 studios will likely save more money deleting these shows than they would gain by keeping them available for sale.

Basically if a show was a one season flop, it just was never seen again.

You needed at least two and a half seasons to be a realistic syndication possiblity. Rumor has it that was the only reason Star Trek got a third season:To make it eliglbe for syndication; Desilu and NBC  knew it had a following though not enough to  keep in on in prime time, would be enough to make is a sucess in syndication.

[ChipDerby]

I think the reason many people are shocked to see shows being "removed" from a streaming service is that the whole idea of streaming was to have all these shows, old/new in one spot to watch any time we want. Like, it's the streamers show! Why would it cost them money to keep the show on the service? The residuals used to be paid out by either buying the show or the show having repeats. I guess we don't realize that if they keep the show available and people watch it, they'll have to pay that to the creatives.

 

 

[dudalb]

ALhtou

28 minutes ago, Cappoedameron said:

I promise you people that have Paramount Plus are not signing up for exclusive shows. They're signing up for Paramount Plus the same reason they sign up for Disney Plus.

 

It's the home of childhood nostalgia and hosts every single Nick show to date, that was enough for me to get the streaming service. Also Paramount Plus is about to merge with Showtime.

Thing is nostalgia alone is not enough.

Why Paramount thought that a Grease prequel sereis in 2022 would be a sucess is beyond me.

And even Star Trek is not infallible, as the recent cancellations show.

[dudalb]

2 minutes ago, ChipDerby said:

I think the reason many people are shocked to see shows being "removed" from a streaming service is that the whole idea of streaming was to have all these shows, old/new in one spot to watch any time we want. Like, it's the streamers show! Why would it cost them money to keep the show on the service? The residuals used to be paid out by either buying the show or the show having repeats. I guess we don't realize that if they keep the show available and people watch it, they'll have to pay that to the creatives.

 

 

Uh, storage space cost money, and you  have the idea that another show using that bandwisth would be more sucessful.

[dudalb]

Insert usual comment about how some "fans"have no  idea how things work in the real entertainment business.

[ZeroHour]

5 minutes ago, ChipDerby said:

I think the reason many people are shocked to see shows being "removed" from a streaming service is that the whole idea of streaming was to have all these shows, old/new in one spot to watch any time we want. Like, it's the streamers show! Why would it cost them money to keep the show on the service? The residuals used to be paid out by either buying the show or the show having repeats. I guess we don't realize that if they keep the show available and people watch it, they'll have to pay that to the creatives.

 

 

If I understand correctly, residuals for streaming services are currently based on the number of domestic subscribers, so streamers do have to keep paying out for shows that no one watches if they keep them on the service. This is probably why we don't see Spotify or Apple dropping music, because in that world people get paid residuals based on number of streams. Adapting that kind of model though would mean streamers would have to share real information on how much their content is watched which they seem unwilling to do. It's crazy though, if you paid people more for making bigger hits, they'd be more motivated to make better shows! What a broken system.

[ZattMurdock]

Steven DeKnight (Marvel’s Daredevil) is one of the good dudes.

 

Excellent thread.

Edited June 23, 2023 by ZattMurdock

[grim22]

1 hour ago, Cappoedameron said:

 

Comic Con is going the way of E3 and man is that a sad reality.

 

It won't die but it will become a much smaller event once movies and TV are no longer the main focus. I attend Wondercon every year, and its a much more laid back and relaxed event compared to SDCC where you can actually converse with artists and writers. Might be great for SDCC to go back to that scale for a bit as well.

[Kon]

4 hours ago, ZeroHour said:

If I understand correctly, residuals for streaming services are currently based on the number of domestic subscribers, so streamers do have to keep paying out for shows that no one watches if they keep them on the service. This is probably why we don't see Spotify or Apple dropping music, because in that world people get paid residuals based on number of streams. Adapting that kind of model though would mean streamers would have to share real information on how much their content is watched which they seem unwilling to do. It's crazy though, if you paid people more for making bigger hits, they'd be more motivated to make better shows! What a broken system.

 

The strongest theory is the streaming numbers aren't really good, so the streaming services fear the stocks will drop if these are revealed.

 

This could put some companies out of business.

[filmlover]

Gotta wonder how many of the folks on social media handwringing over the removal of shows no one was watching in the first place have ever asked (or even given thought to) why the rise of streaming services hasn't resulted in studios opening up their vaults and releasing all the cancelled shows from before the streaming era as opposed to keeping them out of circulation still.

 

There's no use paying to keep a series that was short-lived up when nobody is going to go back and get invested in a show that they know ends without a proper resolution.

[dudalb]

3 hours ago, grim22 said:

 

It won't die but it will become a much smaller event once movies and TV are no longer the main focus. I attend Wondercon every year, and its a much more laid back and relaxed event compared to SDCC where you can actually converse with artists and writers. Might be great for SDCC to go back to that scale for a bit as well.

For years the hard core Comic fans have sort of written off SDCC for being more of a showplace for movies and TV and less about actual comics.

I am friends with the owneer of one of the local comic book shops. and although he attends SDCC for business/networking  reasons. as far as being a comics fan goes some of the smaller, regional conventions are a lot more interesting.

Edited June 24, 2023 by dudalb