WGA/SAGAFTRA Strike Discussion Thread | SAG Ratifies Contract

[21C]

Just now, Cmasterclay said:

But you are arguing a made-up issue that is intentionally designed to divide and break solidarity. It happens with every sports strike, too. It becomes less about how everyone is getting screwed and more about "well Lebron should give his money away instead of the owner!" It's a strawman. J-Law is much more on the side of the working actor than the studio head.

It is not a strawman dude. Where the hell do you think their salaries come from? It comes from the budget of these films and TV shows. It's an objective fact that if the 10 million an actor gets paid for a project instead got distributed amongst cast and crew, said cast and crew would have significantly better pays on those productions. 

 

[Cmasterclay]

6 minutes ago, MysteryMovieMogul said:

Since when is saying "all executives need to make less money and there needs to be a salary cap on actors" a right-wing position? Because maybe in my heated nature, I'm doing a bad job of constructing my point. That happens to me from time to time. But my position is:

In order for working actors and writers to get paid what they deserve, studios need to spend less on executive salaries and bonuses, as well as less on A-list talent. I truly don't believe anyone should be making over $20 million a year for anything. In a perfect world, the FTC would break up the big studios, but that ain't gonna happen so...

I literally said I'd love to see a world where the pay between big actors/athletes and the role players was more equitable. But that's not what is at issue here, is the point. None of this strike is occuring because of J-Law's salaries. Zero. It is a significantly different and larger set of issues. You are making a classic argument used in strikes to distract from the real injustice. 

[dudalb]

4 minutes ago, MysteryMovieMogul said:

You mean the debt he incurred by buying Discovery? The debt he, himself, could have avoided?

Warners was in deep debt trouble before Zalsev took over. 

I hate him as much as anybody here, but to blame him for all of Warner;s troubles is silly.

[Cmasterclay]

4 minutes ago, MysteryMovieMogul said:

No one is saying she should have refused the money. I'm saying there should be stipulations in studio contracts to limit the salary any actor can make on a film.

 

Again, going back to the pro-athlete discussion. The MLB, the NFL, the NBA, the NHL... they all have Salary caps. In fact, the NBA salary cap is $136.021 million for the 2023-2024 season. Harrison Ford and J Law together made $50 million, if this was the NBA, there would only be $86 million to spend on other players for the rest of the year.

That's....exactly how it goes in the NBA. I'm a Heat fan. Jimmy and Bam's contracts are worth over 50 percent of our cap. Jimmy Butler makes a bigger gap between himself and our fourth best player than the hated A-List actor makes between the fourth billed star, honestly. So you would hate how "overpaid" those athletes are even more.

 

There's no maximum salaries in most sports. You can't have a salary cap for the movies themselves for a number of reasons. This argument just doesn't track. 

Edited July 14, 2023 by Cmasterclay

[TalismanRing]

1 minute ago, MysteryMovieMogul said:

No one is saying she should have refused the money. I'm saying there should be stipulations in studio contracts to limit the salary any actor can make on a film.

 

Again, going back to the pro-athlete discussion. The MLB, the NFL, the NBA, the NHL... they all have Salary caps. In fact, the NBA salary cap is $136.021 million for the 2023-2024 season. Harrison Ford and J Law together made $50 million, if this was the NBA, there would only be $86 million to spend on other players for the rest of the year.

 

Again, salary caps are for teams not players.  Lebron is making his $50m and someone else on the team is making league minimum $1m.    Also teams can go over - at least in MLB - they get a financial penalty   The billionaire owners can afford it.

[dudalb]

6 minutes ago, TalismanRing said:

 

 

It's not about seeing her as just Katniss.  I'm pretty sure RDJ isn't making $75-80m in Oppenheimer.  Different genres, roles and budgets = different pay.  A mid budget film with sub $100m B.O. aspirations is not the place for a full on star salary.  Actors have been doing this for ages for Indies and prestige films.  Though Hard Feelings is hardly that and they probably had to pay JL that much to be in it - whether that's fiscally smart is on studios heads - it's not for JLaw to negotiate against herself.

 

I repeat..I would be willing to bet that No Hard Feelings was created as a J Law vehicle. They just miscalculated her drawing power.

But again, it is at 45 Milllion all in a low budget film..a reasonable gamble.

[ZattMurdock]

Just now, 21C said:

I have empathy and solidarity for the working actors, not for the mega-stars that have yachts and mansions of their own as well.  They're also the 1%

The working class one day ascending to the 1% is the reason why people get in this business. It’s not fair, my socialist left leaning brain doesn’t like it either, but it’s how the world works. Hollywood won’t come to a solution to this just like you won’t find a solution for that in the sports world.
 

The very worst thing it could happen to the film industry is "the death of the movie star", it’s a Trojan horse that made music streaming platforms insanely rich and made the possibility of working musicians to "ascend to the 1%" nearly impossible. Which brings me back to my original point: killing the movie stars and making them easily replaceable would be terrible to the industry as a whole, and no, it wouldn’t mean that the working class would have better pay.
 

The house always wins, so every actor and writer standing together in solidarity is the only way that they can get shit done and get better working conditions and pay. We really don’t want Hollywood to go the way the music here, folks. People blaming the Harrison Fords, RDJs and J-Laws out there are in the wrong. 

[21C]

Just now, ZattMurdock said:

The working class one day ascending to the 1% is the reason why people get in this business. It’s not fair, my socialist left leaning brain doesn’t like it either, but it’s how the world works. Hollywood won’t come to a solution to this just like you won’t find a solution for that in the sports world.
 

The very worst thing it could happen to the film industry is "the death of the movie star", it’s a Trojan horse that made music streaming platforms insanely rich and made the possibility of working musicians to "ascend to the 1%" nearly impossible. Which brings me back to my original point: killing the movie stars and making them easily replaceable would be terrible to the industry as a whole, and no, it wouldn’t mean that the working class would have better pay.
 

The house always wins, so every actor and writer standing together in solidarity is the only way that they can get shit done and get better working conditions and pay. We really don’t want Hollywood to go the way the music here, folks. People blaming the Harrison Fords, RDJs and J-Laws out there are in the wrong. 

You can have movie stars without paying them over 20 million for a project. 

[lab276]

J Law was a producer on No Hard Feelings.

[MysteryMovieMogul]

Pro-athletes are also forced into retirement before their 50s, sometimes even 40s or 30s depending on the sport. Those sports stars are working their bodies way harder than even Tom Cruise has.

[ZattMurdock]

4 minutes ago, 21C said:

You can have movie stars without paying them over 20 million for a project. 

It’s what they are worth. They should be paid what they are worth. And it’s not up to you to tell. Taking cuts of the movie stars wouldn’t solve the issue of the working class, either of actors, writers, directors or anyone involved in the entertainment industry. In fact like the music entertainment downfall has taught us, they getting "cuts" would mean that said industry would be profitable to the Spotifys and Live Nations of the world, not actual musicians. We don’t need the film industry to go the way of the music industry. In fact, I’d argue that the current strike is happening exactly to try and prevent that of happening.

Edited July 14, 2023 by ZattMurdock

[grim22]

 

[21C]

Just now, ZattMurdock said:

It’s what they are worth. They should be paid what they are worth. And it’s not up to you to tell. Taking cuts of the movie stars wouldn’t solve the issue of the working class, either of actors, writers, directors or anyone involved in the entertainment industry. 

It won't single-handedly fix the problem but it'd go a long, and I mean a long way for a lot of workers if those salaries were instead distributed among them in those productions. 

[Porthos]

*starts to write something*

 

*thinks better of it*

 

*starts to write something else*

 

*thinks better of that*

 

*writes the following instead*

 

@Plain Old Tele Yep.  Reminding me of Sports Labor Fights more and more with every passing minute.  Right down to the "attack successful workers instead of owners who won't make a fair deal."

 

....

 

SALARY CAPS?

 

LAST FIVE PAGES OF THIS THREAD HAS SUDDENLY BEEN TALKING ABOUT SALARY CAPS OUT OF THE BLUE?!?

REALLY?

 

WTAF.

 

(sorry, couldn't hold it completely in )

Edited July 14, 2023 by Porthos

[ZattMurdock]

Just now, 21C said:

It won't single-handedly fix the problem but it'd go a long, and I mean a long way for a lot of workers if those salaries were instead distributed among them in those productions. 

Look, I voted for Lula here in Brazil. I’m a socialist left leaning progressive at heart, I don’t like salaries inequality as much as any other progressive. I understand what you are saying, but like I’ve said, it’s a Trojan horse. It doesn’t work. There is a reason why this is an impossible solution in the sports world and it was an impossible solution in the music world… until it wasn’t. And the "solution" in the music world didn’t help artists AT ALL. WHATSOEVER. We don’t want the same for Hollywood. And this is coming from someone that made his final Law school paper on the social function of intellectual property in the Information Age. Cutting from movie stars will just make movie moguls and ceos richer. Not the working class.

[ZattMurdock]

6 minutes ago, Porthos said:

*starts to write something*

 

*thinks better of it*

 

*starts to write something else*

 

*thinks better of that*

 

*writes the following instead*

 

@Plain Old Tele Yep.  Reminding me of Sports Labor Fights more and more with every passing minute.  Right down to the "attack successful workers instead of owners who won't make a fair deal."

 

....

 

SALARY CAPS?

 

LAST FIVE PAGES OF THIS THREAD HAS SUDDENLY BEEN TALKING ABOUT SALARY CAPS OUT OF THE BLUE?!?

REALLY?

 

WTAF.

 

(sorry, couldn't hold it completely in )

 

Bingo.

[21C]

2 minutes ago, ZattMurdock said:

Look, I voted for Lula here in Brazil. I’m a socialist left leaning progressive at heart, I don’t like salaries inequality as much as any other progressive. I understand what you are saying, but like I’ve said, it’s a Trojan horse. It doesn’t work. There is a reason why this is an impossible solution in the sports world and it was an impossible solution in the music world… until it wasn’t. And the "solution" in the music world didn’t help artists AT ALL. WHATSOEVER. We don’t want the same for Hollywood. And this is coming from someone that made his final Law school paper on the social function of intellectual property in the Information Age. Cutting from movie stars will just make movie moguls and ceos richer. Not the working class.

You have to cut from somewhere and cutting from movie stars + CEOs sounds like a reasonable idea to me, but it'll never happen lmao

Edited July 14, 2023 by 21C

[Jonwo]

9 minutes ago, grim22 said:

 

I think Fran Drescher needs to do the negotiations but in her Nanny Fine voice, that would end the strike within hours if not minutes. 

[filmlover]

This clip has been making the rounds again after today . Legend who predicted the future.

 

 

[MysteryMovieMogul]

17 minutes ago, ZattMurdock said:

It’s what they are worth. They should be paid what they are worth. And it’s not up to you to tell. Taking cuts of the movie stars wouldn’t solve the issue of the working class, either of actors, writers, directors or anyone involved in the entertainment industry. In fact like the music entertainment downfall has taught us, they getting "cuts" would mean that said industry would be profitable to the Spotifys and Live Nations of the world, not actual musicians. We don’t need the film industry to go the way of the music industry. In fact, I’d argue that the current strike is happening exactly to try and prevent that of happening.

But how is Harrison Ford worth $25 million for Indiana Jones when the common talking point since the film came out has been "he was too old for this?" I might agree if folks were praising his performance, or praising Jennifer Lawrence in No Hard Feelings, but I don't hear any of that.