Father’s Day/Juneteenth Weekend Thread | Flash implodes with 55M, Elemental bombs with 29M, holdovers hold atrociously | Theaters are dead, streaming is dead. Everything is dead really.

[Legion Again]

39 minutes ago, ThomasNicole said:

I can’t believe you seriously believe studios should use AI to animate pictures. This is an art form before a product, this is insane. 
 

And you can’t simply reduce movies budgets no matter what. Nope needed to cost 70M, the money is imprinted in every frame of that movie, it’s absurd to think the movie should look worse because it would serve the studio better. 
 

Just because we like to discuss numbers doesn’t mean we need to treat art completely as products that need to bow to profit. 

I mean, you don’t have to like it, but studio movies are commercial products first and foremost. They get financed to provide profit to the backers not just to enrich human experience or whatever. You can do movies as art before product too of course — you just need someone willing to bankroll it. Big budget wise what comes to mind is Shyamalan fully financing his own movies and Laika being bankrolled at a loss by Knight’s daddy Nike bucks.
 

And AI tools are great for making art, using it to generate animation is a great idea that will inevitably become the primary mode of production.

[CloneWars]

What happened this weekend? The Flash number is outright bad. Elemental is bad but Chapek fucked over Pixar and now the brand has some value lost, so I get its gross. But, damn, The Flash had Keaton Batman and could only muster $55M OW. Shit. I will say this, the multiverse really sucked here vs. what was done in Loki, NWH, and the Spider-Verse films. If you're going to do the multiverse, at least do it right. I guess DC being rebooted also plays a role here.

Edited June 19, 2023 by CloneWars

[AniNate]

Personally I couldn't give two shits about Michael Keaton and Ezra's presence and Zaslav's general contempt for creativity turned me off seeing the movie further.

[Cappoedameron]

Zaslav's failures make me happy. He's had so much egg on his face ever since he canceled Batgirl and then proceeding to disrespect animation now seeing the highest grossing films of the year are animated films. 

[Ryan Reynolds]

9 minutes ago, CloneWars said:

What happened this weekend? The Flash number is outright bad. Elemental is bad but Chapek fucked over Pixar and now the brand has some value lost, so I get its gross. But, damn, The Flash had Keaton Batman and could only muster $55M OW. Shit. I will say this, the multiverse really sucked here vs. what was done in Loki, NWH, and the Spider-Verse films. If you're going to do the multiverse, at least do it right. I guess DC being rebooted also plays a role here.

the movie was pointless once they announced Gunn was starting over , a lot of people were annoyed also after the stunts The Rock pulled

[Sckathian]

20 minutes ago, Flopped said:

 

It just looks lazy and cheap and it feels to me like they're hiding behind "kitsch" to get away with it. 

It’s supposed to look cheap? They are living in doll houses. Everything about the Barbie world is suppose to look plastic and fake?

36 minutes ago, ThomasNicole said:

Is not the money it wants, sometimes is the money it needs. 
 

Of course Fast X doesn’t need 340M, it doesn’t even looks like such an expensive movie and we all know these blockbusters are so expensive because they use awfully planned CGI even for the most mundane things so is just lazy production that can afford the highly costs of being lazy. But you mentioned 2 movies that have very reasonable budgets.
 

Nope costs 65M, this is fair and it looks more expensive than it actually is, this is a creative use of money and the movie as it is simply couldn’t be made for such lower price. For every example of movie that turn lack of budget into creativity, there’s twenty examples of movies that could’ve been amazing and they aren’t because they couldn’t get the money needed to create greatness. 
 

Even Beau, that movie looks way more expensive than 35M. They did exceptional use of the money, to think it should be way cheaper is to think the movie as it is shouldn’t exist. 
 

And of course movies has always been made with budget limitations, i’m pretty sure both Nope and Beau already worked with limitations, but they actually put effort and creativity in how to spent that money to create something with quality. 
 

It’s a completely different type of production and execution compared to the inflated blockbusters, is not really fair of a comparisson.
 

 

Tbf am not really saying Beau should have been made cheaper. I’m saying it should not got to development at all if it couldn’t be made on a lower budget.

 

I think we are getting away from my point anyway. Am not advocating for lower budgets for my personal feelings, my point is that studios are going to see a weekend like this and see a need to change their risk model which means changing their budgets. Which to match your point WOULD mean a change in output and types of films being made.

 

Am not really saying that’s a good thing but a reality.

[ThomasNicole]

12 minutes ago, Into the Legion-Verse said:

I mean, you don’t have to like it, but studio movies are commercial products first and foremost. They get financed to provide profit to the backers not just to enrich human experience or whatever. You can do movies as art before product too of course — you just need someone willing to bankroll it. Big budget wise what comes to mind is Shyamalan fully financing his own movies and Laika being bankrolled at a loss by Knight’s daddy Nike bucks.
 

And AI tools are great for making art, using it to generate animation is a great idea that will inevitably become the primary mode of production.

Sure, from studios perspective this is why they make movies … money, always, therefore they are products.
 

I just don’t believe we as audiences should think of movies the same way, just like the artists don’t do it. Like Nope to keep the example, i wouldn’t like to see a worse version of it due lack of budget … from a commercial pov i’m sure every single movie would benefit from being cheaper including this one, still i’m not an executive, these movies aren’t just numbers to me, i want quality first. 
 

When i say “you can’t simply reduce budgets no matter what”, i know commercially they can, but artistically they can’t because that usually brings lesser quality. And like i said we as audiences shouldn’t be convenient or accept worse quality just because it fits the studio finances better. 
 

Again, i’m not saying there isn’t a problem of inflated budgets going on, pretty much every blockbuster this year that costs +200M looks like 100M productions, which means the problem is their execution, so the expensiveness isn’t related with high quality. In these cases, i’m sure there are many ways execute things differently, better and cheaper. 
 

I just don’t believe mid budget movies like the examples fit in this logic, not only because most of them have reasonable budgets but because most of them actually get only the money they needed to make it and they do it well. 

[ThomasNicole]

12 minutes ago, Sckathian said:

It’s supposed to look cheap? They are living in doll houses. Everything about the Barbie world is suppose to look plastic and fake?

Tbf am not really saying Beau should have been made cheaper. I’m saying it should not got to development at all if it couldn’t be made on a lower budget.

 

I think we are getting away from my point anyway. Am not advocating for lower budgets for my personal feelings, my point is that studios are going to see a weekend like this and see a need to change their risk model which means changing their budgets. Which to match your point WOULD mean a change in output and types of films being made.

 

Am not really saying that’s a good thing but a reality.

I get what you say, you’re right, it’s the reality. 
 

Still, as people who love movies, we should discuss this things and their impact artistically, at least i like to discuss it.
 

I don’t think is unproductive at all, quite the opposite, knowing that while being a reality this isn’t a good thing, I think we should not only discuss it but being loud about it, since the results we’re seeing is industry fault, not the audiences fault.

Edited June 19, 2023 by ThomasNicole

[IronJimbo & Sheldon's Son]

Hopefully that soft Sunday drop for The Flash is a sign that other movies also held well yesterday, because god my derby needs it

[AniNate]

 

22 minutes ago, Sckathian said:

It’s supposed to look cheap? They are living in doll houses. Everything about the Barbie world is suppose to look plastic and fake?

Tbf am not really saying Beau should have been made cheaper. I’m saying it should not got to development at all if it couldn’t be made on a lower budget.

 

I think we are getting away from my point anyway. Am not advocating for lower budgets for my personal feelings, my point is that studios are going to see a weekend like this and see a need to change their risk model which means changing their budgets. Which to match your point WOULD mean a change in output and types of films being made.

 

Am not really saying that’s a good thing but a reality.

 

Beau is Afraid was the kind of money pit a studio can afford to dig once they've built enough cache (ie a big financial and awards success like EEAAO). I think A24 knew full well that movie was likely not gonna make that budget back but they appreciated Aster as a filmmaker so they let him at it.

 

I don't think any of us really know the inner workings of Pixar enough though to say just how they can cut budgets and still maintain a good artistic reputation. I'm not sure even relying on their franchises is a guarantee that they can remain financially solvent, audiences will see through that eventually too if the quality isn't what they expect.

 

Bottom line is Pixar needs a 90% RT movie again, at least as a definitive test subject for whether the problem is really more their quality or market conditions.

Edited June 19, 2023 by AniNate

[Legion Again]

8 minutes ago, IronJimbo & Sheldon's Son said:

Hopefully that soft Sunday drop for The Flash is a sign that other movies also held well yesterday, because god my derby needs it

Not really, you’re much closer to 1st than 5th (out of 17)

[Belakor]

25 minutes ago, Cappoedameron said:

Zaslav's failures make me happy. He's had so much egg on his face ever since he canceled Batgirl and then proceeding to disrespect animation now seeing the highest grossing films of the year are animated films. 

Let's be honest, that was a good decision, probably, cancelling CW shows is also good, Cheap tv products just hurts more the DC brand like bad movies do.

[Nero]

4 hours ago, Issac Newton said:

 

 

This was amazing.... Beautiful ❤️

[ListenHunnyUrOver]

Can the DCEU die after Aquaman 2? It’s painfully obvious it never took off with the public in the way it needed to. Time for a hard reboot, fire James Gunn, scrap all the future movies he had planned, and just focus on creating quality standalone movies. 

[Liiviig 1998]

Another factor to consider this whole multiverse stories has already oversaturated the CBM . Like God how many multiverse related projects from 2021-2023 and most have released to tepid results and have been majorly been used for fanservice cameos and have overall hindered stakes in stories.

 

Covid changed spending patterns and now GA is no forgiving or willing to spend on substandard content.

 

 

 

 

 

[ListenHunnyUrOver]

Batman V. Superman underperformed 

 

Justice League underperformed 

 

The Suicide Squad underperformed

 

Shazam 2 underperformed 

 

The Flash is underperforming 

 

THE DCEU IS OVER! 
 

[ListenHunnyUrOver]

3 hours ago, Issac Newton said:

 

 

Dua Lipsus coming to save cinema like she saved pop. 

[eddyxx]

13 minutes ago, ZattMurdock said:

LMAO. Tepid results from the likes of Spider-Man: No Way Home, Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, Loki and last but not less important Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse? Sure, dawg… whatever makes you feel better about The Flash bombing.

 

 

 

 

And we don't even mention the oscar sweep we just seen a few months ago.

[ZattMurdock]

3 minutes ago, eddyxx said:

 

And we don't even mention the oscar sweep we just seen a few months ago.

Yeah the tepid results of that hated film Everything Everywhere All At Once.

 

What DC fans that treat these films like some sort of war between Marvel and DC actually mean:

 

Guys, if The Flash can’t captivate the audiences, studios need to stop making these multiverse films pronto, audiences don’t care about that anymore. Beyond the Spider-Verse? Scrap it. Loki Season 2? Forget it, make a tax write off like Batgirl. Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars? They are doomed. Say what you actually want to say at least. It’s more honest lol.

[Sckathian]

7 minutes ago, Liiviig 1998 said:

Another factor to consider this whole multiverse stories has already oversaturated the CBM . Like God how many multiverse related projects from 2021-2023 and most have released to tepid results and have been majorly been used for fanservice cameos and have overall hindered stakes in stories.

Fans and the producers (who are fans) just got up their own arses with some of this stuff. They thought the audience watching these films were hardcore comic fans who cared about 'Kang' or even about bringing someone back from a poorly received Superman film. 

 

It's the same with Star Wars. For some reason some have to believe it's the biggest thing in the world or your personally attacking their identity by questioning the reach of their TV shows.