Game of Thrones (TV ONLY) [Leaked Spoilers prohibited]

[4815162342]

SpoilerTV says that Clive Russell is going to play Brynden Tully aka "The Blackfish." Brynden Tulley is Catelyn Stark's uncle (younger brother to her father) and a general all-around badass.Here is some background info for the character:Brynden Tully made his name for himself as a renowned warrior during the War of the Ninepenny Kings (about 40 years prior to events of the show) but had a falling out with his older brother over the issue of marriage. When Lysa Tully married Jon Arryn he went with her to the Vale to act as castellan for the Gates of the Moon/The Eryie. He should have appeared in the show halfway through Season 1 when Catelyn takes Tyrion to the Vale and when she leaves to join Robb he accompanies her since his family's lands are under attack. From that point on he becomes Robb Stark's most trusted and skilled advisor and battle leader, commanding the scouts for the army. My (and most fans') assumption is that his character was delayed for budgetary reasons and the limitations of a 10-episode season.http://www.spoilertv.com/2012/06/game-of-thrones-season-3-clive-russel.html

[ddddeeee]

I'm finally going to surrender to the hype. I want to read the books first, yes?

[4815162342]

Probably, yes.

[Cedarpoint1111]

No plenty of people like the show without reading the books.

[4815162342]

He doesn't need to read them, but there's a lot of relevant backstory and details one can gain from reading the books too.For example, perhaps the biggest Chekov's gun of the whole series has so far been almost totally ignored in the show yet by the end of the second book an astute reader has all the details he/she needs to make a certain major conclusion and wait for the book series to finally reveal it (sure Martin hasn't confirmed it will be correct, but it's hella obvious from all the clues in the novels).

[reddevil18]

He doesn't need to read them, but there's a lot of relevant backstory and details one can gain from reading the books too.For example, perhaps the biggest Chekov's gun of the whole series has so far been almost totally ignored in the show yet by the end of the second book an astute reader has all the details he/she needs to make a certain major conclusion and wait for the book series to finally reveal it (sure Martin hasn't confirmed it will be correct, but it's hella obvious from all the clues in the novels).

What are you referring to? I'm sitting here, scratching my head, trying to figure it out. You referring to Jon or something else?

[DeeCee]

Yeah, I suspect he's referring to Jon Snow's parentage. I've avoided any other online GOT sites so as not to get any spoilers. I'm currently part way through A Dance with Dragons. So far there have been several suggestions as to Jon's true parentage.

Clearly it's unlikely Lord Stark was his father. What is the main theory? A random thought I had is that Jon is Robert and Cersei's true born son who was supposedly killed at birth

Edited July 1, 2012 by DeeCee

[4815162342]

What are you referring to? I'm sitting here, scratching my head, trying to figure it out. You referring to Jon or something else?

I'm refering to the big theory of the entire series, that:

Jon Snow is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark. The clues supporting the theory are legion.

[Water Bottle]

I'm finally going to surrender to the hype. I want to read the books first, yes?

I'm going to be be reading the first two books soon. I want the series to stay ahead of me, so it's plot twists can be surprising. I plan to read the books to get the background and world info that the series can't bring up.

[reddevil18]

I'm refering to the big theory of the entire series, that:

Jon Snow is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark. The clues supporting the theory are legion.

Yeah, that's what I thought you were talking about. And it makes sense.

And now, with him dead, but likely to be resurrected, he'll be free of his oath to the Night's Watch as well.

[DeeCee]

I'm refering to the big theory of the entire series, that:

Jon Snow is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark. The clues supporting the theory are legion.

Interesting. It does make sense. Could you post a couple of the reasons and please assume I haven't read A Dance With Dragons.

Wasn't Lyanna due to marry Robert but the Targaryen's killed her? Also, Jon would still be a bastard as Lyanna and Rhaegar(he was married to Elia of Dorne) wouldn't have married or did they?

I really should finish ADWD. I've stalled a bit in my reading over the last few weeks.

[4815162342]

Interesting. It does make sense. Could you post a couple of the reasons and please assume I haven't read A Dance With Dragons.

Wasn't Lyanna due to marry Robert but the Targaryen's killed her? Also, Jon would still be a bastard as Lyanna and Rhaegar(he was married to Elia of Dorne) wouldn't have married or did they?

I really should finish ADWD. I've stalled a bit in my reading over the last few weeks.

Pretty much all the clues you need are in the first two books. Some of the big ones:

1) Ned's flashback to the Tower of Joy. The three remaining Kingsguard are guarding that Tower instead of going to join Viserys who "should" be the heir. They'd only stay if they believed the king was inside.2) Lyanna's last words to him: Promise me, Ned. Sure they could mean anything, but put together with the other clues it indicates a promise for Ned to raise Jon in secret.3) The story told to Bran about the Tourney at Harrenhall and the Knight of the Laughing Tree. And all info we know about that Tourney in general (such as Rhaegar crowning Lyanna with the winter rose). This info lends credence to the belief that Rhaegar didn't kidnap Lyanna so much as her agreeing to go off with him.4) Rhaegar's appearance in the Houses of the Undying. He tells his wife (Elia) that the dragon has three heads, so there must be one more. He says this just after his son Aegon is born, so at this point he has two kids and for prophecy reasons needs a third.There's more but those are the big ones that come to mind.Concerning the bastard aspect, remember that Targaryens are notorious in history for being the only family in Westerous (in the past several centuries) to legally be able to have polygamous marriages. Since all the clues indicate that Lyanna and Rhaegar had feelings for one another, it makes sense that Rhaegar would marry Lyanna as his second wife so any children by them would be legitimate. It also explains why all 3 remaining Kingsguard are at the Tower of Joy. If Jon was just a bastard, maybe 1 would have stayed but the other 2 would have gone to find Viserys. The only reason all 3 would stay is if Jon was the true heir to the Iron Throne.

Edited July 1, 2012 by 4815162342

[DeeCee]

Makes even more sense now.Thanks.

[cozmeesah]

Also:

In Daenerys's visions in the House of the Undying she saw a blue flower (Lyanna loved those) in a chunk of ice (the wall.) Probably substituted in the show with Dany walking out from underneath the wall.

Edited July 2, 2012 by Cozmees Everdeen

[Cedarpoint1111]

I'm itching to read those spoilers but I know I'll regret it later.

[cozmeesah]

They're not really spoilers. It's just a theory that a great number of the book readers have, but it hasn't been confirmed as of now. Not by the books or by GRRM's word. It's pretty much all based on clues given in the first two books. So, if you've seen the first two seasons, you wouldn't really be spoiled for anything.

It's all stuff that they couldn't really portray on screen as it is in people's memories & visions.

It's up to you if you want to read the "spoilers." But, like I said, they're not "spoilers" so much as clues from the 1st two books that couldn't make it to the screen very well. I, personally, had heard of this particular theory before I'd even read Books 3-5 and it didn't bother me that I had it in my mind before I read them. It's actually fun to look for more clues as you're reading.

ETA: But DON'T read reddevil's spoiler in the post (#630) that begins "Yeah, that's what I thought you were talking about." That one's a future book spoiler.

Edited July 2, 2012 by Cozmees Everdeen

[cozmeesah]

Yeah, that's what I thought you were talking about. And it makes sense.

And now, with him dead, but likely to be resurrected, he'll be free of his oath to the Night's Watch as well.

Well...

we also don't know for a fact that Jon is dead. Yes, he was stabbed several times, but we don't know if he dies.

ETA: Cedar... don't read the spoilers in this particular post. These are future book spoilers.

Edited July 2, 2012 by Cozmees Everdeen

[reddevil18]

Well...

we also don't know for a fact that Jon is dead. Yes, he was stabbed several times, but we don't know if he dies.

ETA: Cedar... don't read the spoilers in this particular post. These are future book spoilers.

I'm 99% sure he does. We know Red Priests are capable of resurrecting people, Melissandre has shown huge interest in him, there's the warging thing, and the best way for him to be free of the oath...

[cozmeesah]

I'm 99% sure he does. We know Red Priests are capable of resurrecting people, Melissandre has shown huge interest in him, there's the warging thing, and the best way for him to be free of the oath...

Probably. BUT the whole "important people dying and we resurrect them" thing is going to get a bit old pretty soon. People already didn't like it with Catelyn. I'd hate to see GRRM keep falling back to that convenient plot device. And if he doesn't and just outright kills Jon and he stays dead then people may revolt, lol.

ETA: Cedar... more future book spoilers in this post.

[reddevil18]

Probably. BUT the whole "important people dying and we resurrect them" thing is going to get a bit old pretty soon. People already didn't like it with Catelyn. I'd hate to see GRRM keep falling back to that convenient plot device. And if he doesn't and just outright kills Jon and he stays dead then people may revolt, lol.

ETA: Cedar... more future book spoilers in this post.

Exactly, and I'll be leading the rebellion.

Fuck, if stupid Catelyn got brought back, and Jon is dead for good, I'm gonna hurt GRRM!