Sunshine, Light, and Joy

 

This is a post that I've been thinking about for awhile. Recently, I opened up the discussion to other members of the staff to get their feelings on the matter, and their opinions generally matched mine, which is this:

Within the last year or so, there's been a steady increase of negative posts in movie threads. We've always had some heated discussions for some movies, but recently things have not only gotten more histrionic in those threads (generally speaking, the CBM ones), but they've started to spread to other franchises and other movies as well. I'm not talking about out-and-out trolling, I'm talking about members feeling they have to consistently shit on a movie (or studio, or star) simply because they aren't interested in the current project or projects. With every piece of news about a movie, it's now a virtual guarantee that there's a flood of people rushing to say they think it sucks, they don't like the current trailer/tv spot/actor/actress/director/concept. And I get it -- we all have movies we don't like, movies which we think are bad ideas, industry people that just don't appeal to us. But there's a fine line between expressing your opinion about this and doing it so often, with such consistency, that the collective emphasis of all of it basically brings down the entire thread and thus the entire forum.

There's no easy answer to this. We don't want to crush freedom of expression here. But at the same time, the spirit of this forum is for people to have fun talking about the movies they love and the box-office runs they love.

To have fun.

And while it may be fun -- in a sense -- to personally vent about a movie, or to vent at people who dare to enjoy something you don't, it doesn't bring fun to our community. In fact, it generally drags down the overall fun for everyone else. We've had people repeatedly mention to us over the last several months or so that in some cases they don't even bother going into some threads -- even for movies they're curious about! -- because they just don't want to deal with the overall mess those threads contain. And frankly, that matches the personal opinion of most of the staff as well.

So this post is both a request and a warning. 

The request: Next time you feel like taking a dump on a movie (or a topic) for the dozenth time, take a moment to consider whether it's really worth it. People probably already have a good idea of what your attitude about the project is. Maybe just put your posting energy into a movie that you enjoy and love or are excited about.

The warning: The staff is going to be taking a closer look at some of these threads and we'll be more active with temp thread-bans if we think it'll help the overall vibe of the forum. I'd rather we don't have to, but it's not going to constrain any of you too much if you aren't allowed to post about a movie you supposedly don't care about anyway.

Remember the words of Bill and Ted: "Be Excellent to Each Other".

They're just movies, guys. It's about having fun.

Welcome to The Box Office Theory — Forums

Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to contribute to this site by submitting your own content or replying to existing content. You'll be able to customize your profile, receive reputation points as a reward for submitting content, while also communicating with other members via your own private inbox, plus much more! This message will be removed once you have signed in.

grim22

The Hunger Games Franchise: What went so right (THG, CF) and then so wrong (MJ1, MJ2)

260 posts in this topic

5 hours ago, Lordmandeep said:

Well if you want to know the true horror of wars, here are some examples of note.

 

There is the Battle of Cannae where Rome and Hannibal fought (216 BC) where about 130 to 140 thousand men fought in the  area the size of Central Park in NYC. Hannibals forces surrounded the  Roman Forces in one of the devastating Tactical military moves in history and killed 50 to 75 thousand Roman Soldiers. The aftermath of such a battle would be unimaginable. 

 

Another example was Napelons fighting the Russians deep in Russia at the Battle Borodino in 1812. 

" Historian Gwynne Dyer compared the carnage at Borodino to "a fully-loaded 747 crashing, with no survivors, every 5 minutes for eight hours."[80] "

 

Anyone heard of the Bone Fields of Stalingrad. Anyone who knows history that in WW2, that Stalingrad is the most lethal and of the one the biggest battles in human history. So many were killed that bone fields of tens of thousands would go as far you can see.

Damn. "We're fickle, stupid beings with poor memories and a great gift for self destruction." -Plutarch Heavensbee

Edited by angeldelmito

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Once the games went, the franchise went. That's what people really wanted. You could get rebellions from any movie. The split didn't help matters either. After MJ1, do people even care? I don't.

 

Marketing was also very poor. I forgot this thing was even coming out and I'm not GA. LG didn't make this feel like an event and didn't highlight the finale factor nor did they highlight the action. Didn't really see any advertising on TV, social media, internet, or outdoor. I think LG got cocky and figured "lets save our money, it's the last one, it'll sell itself." That never works. I saw better marketing with Pixels honestly.

 

I know it's hindsight, but honestly I think the games was the real draw. If CF didn't have any games it probably wouldve suffered the same fate, but LG also didn't try so whatever.

 

$425 to $2-something is a huge fall from grace. 

Edited by jandrew

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, jandrew said:

Once the games went, the franchise went. That's what people really wanted. You could get rebellions from any movie. The split didn't help matters either. After MJ1, do people even care? I don't.

 

Marketing was also very poor. I forgot this thing was even coming out and I'm not GA. LG didn't make this feel like an event and didn't highlight the finale factor nor did they highlight the action. Didn't really see any advertising on TV, social media, internet, or outdoor. I think LG got cocky and figured "lets save our money, it's the last one, it'll sell itself." That never works. I saw better marketing with Pixels honestly.

 

I know it's hindsight, but honestly I think the games was the real draw. If CF didn't have any games it probably wouldve suffered the same fate, but LG also didn't try so whatever.

 

$425 to $2-something is a huge fall from grace. 

I think it's more of the split's part than the games' part. I mean the ending of Catching Fire was fucking mesmerizing. It promised blood. If Mockingjay remained one film, then it would have most definitely delivered. I mean war can easily substitute for the Games, especially now that Prezy Snow was a player. When the GA found out it was split, and WOM went around saying that Mockingjay was the least well-received book, some of the GA bailed. And the reviews for MJ1 didn't help in that case, either. 

 

But yeah, I most definitely blame LG for MJP2 not increasing from P1's sales. They fucked up with the marketing, and especially with no soundtrack this time around.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well CF was still 100% games though. There was talk of a rebellion, but no focus on it. So yeah, I agree, CF was very good, but it still didn't deviate from what the Hunger Games was about. It was THG with a new hook and bigger budget.

 

If we get World War Hulk and Planet Hulk it'll probably be the same thing. Planet Hulk could be solidly received, but the GA will friggin eat up the heroes being forced to fight each other in the arena.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the title should be " why did it decrease" instead of  "what went wrong" as it is still making a solid amount of bank 

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mockingjay ended up becoming a civil war between two equally dislikeable leaders in Snow and Coin.  Clearly the aim was to show war is hell and nobody wins but that doesn't really make for a compelling blockbuster.  In MJ2 they tried to make Katniss's arc a proxy for the games but in the end her actual efforts in the movie had little bearing on the out come of the final battle.

 

It simply concluded as 2 very different films from the first 2.  

Edited by DeeCee
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mockingjay is considered to be worst of the book franchise. But the movies were affected, lame marketing. In terms of box office The Hunger Games, experienced the same fate so far with The Matrix: The Matrix was a big hit and a big cultural impact on filmmakers, and audiences alike. The sequel was in need just like Catching Fire and Matrix Reloaded both increased decently from its predecessor. While Mockingjay parts 1 and 2 behaved like The Matrix Revolutions which people avoided it like the plague and suffered steep declines. Plus YA adaptations have been dying down lately just like the found footage genre. Like the last 2 years after the end of Twlight and Harry Potter, every studio wanted their own attempt. First Warm Bodies which had a Twlight similarity and zombies instead of vampires, the film made a solid amount and was one of the sleeper hits of 2013. After that, there was The Host another Twlight attempt, the film flopped with 26 million, Beautiful Creatures(another Twlight attempt) did  a horrendous  19 million domestic. Then, Mortal Instruments(another hunger games) tanked with 32 million, and then Catching Fire increased from its predecessors. Now cut to the chase there were other YA adaptations like The Maze Runner and Divergent being successful back in 2014. Then, the sequels took a dip due to WOM and the tiresome of YA flicks. The fatigue is kicking in now.  Audiences  are burnt out from these films and studios still try to push every single attempt at our face.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't read the books but I wonder if the filmmakers would have been better served with a total departure from the books.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, DeeCee said:

I haven't read the books but I wonder if the filmmakers would have been better served with a total departure from the books.

tumblr_m2u4kaad341rody9mo1_400.gif

Edited by angeldelmito

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Maxmoser3 said:

While Mockingjay parts 1 and 2 behaved like The Matrix Revolutions which people avoided it like the plague and suffered steep declines. 

 

i promised myself i would stay out of this thread but i can't with this. i mean come on MJ1 was the biggest/second biggest movie of 2014 for crying out loud. it beat GOTG, the huge breakout hit with amazing reviews and wom. i mean this isn't like if TFA did 337m then yes something clearly went wrong, but no MJ1 was a movie without the main hook of its franchise and "bad" reviews yet it only dropped 20% from the out-of-this-world success of the previous movie, i.e. kept 4/5ths of its audience and had great legs. it's beyond ridiculous to act like MJ1 was anything but a huge success. and as for MJ2 i remind you all we don't know where it will land but no matter what it will still be a huge success too! it's hardly unheard of for a franchise to peak and drop with each successive movie, especially since THG and CF both overperformed like crazy in the first place.

 

FK9QWzt.gif

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After THG and CF people would have given MJ1 the benefit of the doubt even knowing it was a part 1, that the focus of the story was changing from the games to war/rebellion/politics and that the reviews weren't as good.  There was every indication that part 2 was just going to more of part 1 so even more people just couldn't be bothered turning up. 

 

Also, above, I mean the filmmakers makers should have changed MJ. Not the first two films. 

 

Actually the Matrix is a good comparison. People were blown away by The Matrix and turned up in huge numbers for Reloaded and then they abandoned Revolutions. 

Edited by DeeCee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have my own theory about why MJ2 grossed less than the other movies in the series...  less people bought tickets.  There you go.  Mystery solved!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, langer said:

I have my own theory about why MJ2 grossed less than the other movies in the series...  less people bought tickets.  There you go.  Mystery solved!

Occam posted that explanation earlier. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, angeldelmito said:

I think it's more of the split's part than the games' part. I mean the ending of Catching Fire was fucking mesmerizing. It promised blood. If Mockingjay remained one film, then it would have most definitely delivered. I mean war can easily substitute for the Games, especially now that Prezy Snow was a player. When the GA found out it was split, and WOM went around saying that Mockingjay was the least well-received book, some of the GA bailed. And the reviews for MJ1 didn't help in that case, either. 

 

But yeah, I most definitely blame LG for MJP2 not increasing from P1's sales. They fucked up with the marketing, and especially with no soundtrack this time around.

Soundtrack: I honestly don't think that'd have helped the film, it's just ancillary revenue for the studio cashing in on the brand with unrelated stuff. In fact the one decision this year I'm over the moon about is having a score-based soundtrack as opposed to one of those pop albums where none of the songs are in the film. It should've been done that way from the start. The pop soundtracks' audience is already pretty much aware of the film coming out - since it's mostly big fans of the franchise and the featured artists - which skews younger and female, more so than the films themselves.

 

They improved from P1 with trailer release timing and theatrical placements, but apart from the theatrical, they could've been done better. There were definitely less TV spot variants and airings domestically than at this point for Part 1. Let's not even talk about IMAX because that's a complete fuckup on the studio's part. Which bring me to posters - even though I really really like them, I think what someone earlier (@AJG?) said about the poster campaign, it's that they tried to make it too unified, especially the theatrical one-sheets. I think in an interview or something they mentioned that they wanted to promote HG as "an 8 hour movie" to minimise costs and not make it as exhausting having a different look for each film - although they did differentiate with the red suit which didn't appear in the film, of course. (that's not a spoiler, come on)

 

So I guess the question is - what if they, especially in the trailer campaign, were more representative of the film - a more slow paced character driven war film as opposed to all out action?

 

5 hours ago, DeeCee said:

I haven't read the books but I wonder if the filmmakers would have been better served with a total departure from the books.

 

Possibly, but Hunger Games isn't the type of property for it. Question is - will the increase in GA and GA WOM and possibly critical reception offset the drop in fans going to see the film, repeat viewings from fans, and negative WOM coming from them, as they're no doubt going to be pissed about a total departure. Not sure if there are updated figures for the full OW but for opening day and previews I think Deadline mentioned 67% were fans.

Edited by antovolk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, DeeCee said:

Actually the Matrix is a good comparison. People were blown away by The Matrix and turned up in huge numbers for Reloaded and then they abandoned Revolutions. 

 

people did not abandon MJ1/2!!! if matrix was a good comparison MJ1 would have done <200m omg. like I explained, MJ1 and 2 are both absolutely giant, successful movies

 

4 hours ago, antovolk said:

Possibly, but Hunger Games isn't the type of property for it. Question is - will the increase in GA and GA WOM and possibly critical reception offset the drop in fans going to see the film, repeat viewings from fans, and negative WOM coming from them, as they're no doubt going to be pissed about a total departure. Not sure if there are updated figures for the full OW but for opening day and previews I think Deadline mentioned 67% were fans.

 

oh come on, fans would be perfectly happy with a completely changed mockingkay movie as long as it's good. thg's fanbase has always been tiny and not cared about changes to the books, i mean the fanbase itself is people who are fans of the movies, not people who are fans of the books. the fanbase is the one who are divided on mj the book in the first place lmao. that being said i personally love the two mj movies we got

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, water said:

oh come on, fans would be perfectly happy with a completely changed mockingkay movie as long as it's good. thg's fanbase has always been tiny and not cared about changes to the books, i mean the fanbase itself is people who are fans of the movies, not people who are fans of the books. the fanbase is the one who are divided on mj the book in the first place lmao. that being said i personally love the two mj movies we got

:WHATanabe:

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, DeeCee said:

Occam posted that explanation earlier. 

 

He must have seen my podcast then.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, DeeCee said:

After THG and CF people would have given MJ1 the benefit of the doubt even knowing it was a part 1, that the focus of the story was changing from the games to war/rebellion/politics and that the reviews weren't as good.  There was every indication that part 2 was just going to more of part 1 so even more people just couldn't be bothered turning up. 

 

Also, above, I mean the filmmakers makers should have changed MJ. Not the first two films. 

 

Actually the Matrix is a good comparison. People were blown away by The Matrix and turned up in huge numbers for Reloaded and then they abandoned Revolutions. 

Ooh, well wouldn't that have lost the whole message of Mockingjay? Not to mention that it was the filmmakers fault, not the book's fault, that MJ1 wasn't as critically received as the first 2. They changed more than you'd think in the book, lol. 

I believe that it was mentioned somewhere else in the boards, but Katniss wasn't all googoo eyed and cry baby over Peeta in the novel. She was reluctant because she blamed every live lost on her actions (District 12, D8, etc.) Peeta was just one of the main ones caught up in her mess. I guess the screenwriters just wanted to focus on the love triangle.

 

As for the action, she wasn't supposed to "shoot just one arrow the entire movie". She shot down hella planes and so did Gale. I honestly don't know why they narrowed it down to one dramatic shot, its not like they had a low budget. Plus that camera angle was awful. So many movie fans thinking that she was the one who blew up the hospital, lol.

Edited by angeldelmito

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, angeldelmito said:

Ooh, well wouldn't that have lost the whole message of Mockingjay? Not to mention that it was the filmmakers fault, not the book's fault, that MJ1 wasn't as critically received as the first 2. They changed more than you'd think in the book, lol. 

I believe that it was mentioned somewhere else in the boards, but Katniss wasn't all googoo eyed and cry baby over Peeta in the novel. She was reluctant because she blamed every live lost on her actions (District 12, D8, etc.) Peeta was just one of the main ones caught up in her mess. I guess the screenwriters just wanted to focus on the love triangle.

 

As for the action, she wasn't supposed to "shoot just one arrow the entire movie". She shot down hella planes and so did Gale. I honestly don't know why they narrowed it down to one dramatic shot, its not like they had a low budget. Plus that camera angle was awful. So many movie fans thinking that she was the one who blew up the hospital, lol.

On Peeta moping - that's a result of what ended up actually being Collins' idea to have P1 focus on bringing Peeta back. If they haven't split it in two it would've been like the book in that sense, with Katniss like in P2, blaming it all on her own actions.

 

Although Lionsgate's unneeded tween pandering (which is also likely a cause if that 'moping' - using objective of P1 to change Katniss' characterisation) is another issue to discuss entirely. They can't seem to let go what the cast and creative team already let go, which is that HG is apparently a " YA/teen" franchise. I think they only really let that go in the context of marketing and public reception with this film.

 

I was talking to someone who was at the UK premiere of the first film where press weren't allowed to ask anything regarding Twilight and that fans have apparently been asked to get rid of the "Team" banners to avoid Twilight similarities, which is a bit hypocritical in the sense of them replicating almost beat for beat the Twilight playbook for the first film's promotion. There's a WSJ article talking about that I think...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i'm tired of people shitting on katniss for being upset about peeta being left behind in MJ1. she wasn't a "crybaby" or "moping", she was mad at herself for failing the one thing she tried to do in the quarter quell: save peeta. she doesn't even mention it that often in the movie, her main story arc is still the propaganda and doing her duty to the people of panem, which includes rescuing the victors that are being tortured because of her. when people mock her mindset in MJ1 by acting like she was being annoying or overemotional (like a certain poster here who has written "waaaahhh peetaaa" at least 100 times, but also anyone who thinks it made MJ1 a worse movie) it's quite obviously rooted in sexism and belittling and not taking girls seriously, and i'm tired of it. MJ1 and 2 told an amazing story and you know what, maybe it wasn't meant for you. "tween pandering" my ass, appealing to adult men should not be the baseline for a movie being taken seriously.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.