Transformers: The Last Knight | 6/21/2017 | Big Budget, Weak OW?

[Neno]

it can get worse. 

Edited March 18, 2017 by Neno

[Chewy]

5 hours ago, PPZVGOS said:

The De-Masculinization of the Hollywood Action Movie. 

 

Back in the late '70s and early '80s we witnessed action heroes such as Sylvester Stallone and Arnold Schwarzenegger. Confident Alpha-males, who spent their days (and years) at the gym and with some necessary aid from "substances", built-up awesome physiques so that they could be sold to the audience as "action heroes". These heroes became synonymous in popular cultural with masculinity and machismo, starring in such classics as the Rocky franchise (commenced in the late '70s) the Rambo franchise (introduced in the early '80s) The Terminator (1984) Predator (1987) Terminator 2 (1991) etc. 

 

The uber-muscular, juiced-up action hero though, could not last forever. Their replacement process started with 1988's Die Hard, which introduced us to a new type of action hero, one that relied more on wits than brawn. John McClane never really overpowers the "evil-doers", he mostly outsmarts and outwits them. This archetype was further enhanced with such action classics such as Speed (1994) where our hero is not only quick of mind, but also very appealing to a female audience, Mission Impossible (1996) The Rock (1996) etc... This archetype is still partially alive with such long-running franchises as Mission Impossible and Jason Bourne. This type of action hero, is meant to impress the audience much more with his cleverness, sense of humor or even sex-appeal, rather than with his physicality. 

 

The trend that followed the McLane/Hunt/Bourne archetype of the cunning/well-trained hero, was that of the inexplicably effective and deliciously feminine "bad-ass chick". Angelina Jolie was probably the first to embody this new archetype in films such as Tomb Raider (2001) Wanted (2008) and Salt (2010) Scarlet Johansson is the second and even more thunderous specimen of this archetype, with her turn as Natasha Romanoff/Black Widow in the Avengers franchise starting in 2010 with Iron Man 2 through The Avengers (2012) Captain America: Winter Soldier (2014) etc and also in Lucy (2014) and soon to be in Ghost in the Shell (2017) I never knew a barely 100lbs. pretty young lady could kick the crap out of so many henchmen thrice her size! This one has gotten so far, so as to conquer America's greatest ever franchise: Star Wars! We are now two-in-two with cute young women as our action heroines in the new line of Star Wars extravaganzas, The Force Awakens (2015) and Rogue One (2016) 

 

But the latest trend is the most interesting (from a sociological point of view) one yet. We are now all the way down to the prepubescent girl as our action heroine du jour! With Logan (2017) we have been introduced to the deadly mutant known as X-23, a female child even deadlier and more vicious than Wolverine himself! In this same movie, our old male heroes, the Wolverine and Professor X are now totally, depressingly and at times, embarrassingly past their primes and are desperately awaiting for their impending deaths. Can de-Masculinization go any further than this? 

 

The "empowered female" cliche has by now become so prevalent and overbearing in its cultural hegemony, that even the most placid and cliched of Hollywood directors, one Michael bay, is getting in on the act with his latest opus, Transformers: The Last Knight. 

 

A sub-trend that has also evolved in recent years along with the "de-Masculinization of the Action Movie" secular trend, is the introduction of the "Geriatric Male Action Hero" This has been best embodied by Liam Neeson's Taken series of movies (2008, 2012, 2014) in which a visibly old man, albeit tall and apparently sturdy, can deal with countless of much younger, fitter and far more numerous henchmen. The John Wick movies should also be seen in this light, as of course The Expendable series, which is nothing but a self-parody of now seriously ageing former Hollywood action greats. It would be a naive and superficial mistake to view this sub-trend as a reaction or counter-trend to the feminization of the Action Movie. No, the precise function of the "Geriatric Actioner" is to admit and expose the passe nature of the erstwhile Alpha-Male, a way of gently signing off, politely making room for the newly dominant female gender. The "Geriatric Actioner" both signifies and acknowledges the obsolescence of the formerly dominant male.  

 

... Algren?

[PPZVGOS]

1 hour ago, Chewy said:

 

... Algren?

 

You mean the writer? 

[MrMarosa]

LOL When the men are action heroes, it's cool. When women are action heroes, it's dismissed as an “empowered female cliché”... Right. That article is just stupid; how awful and disgusting that women are not just portrayed as lovelorn, fragile ingenues anymore. Society is doomed.

Edited March 18, 2017 by MrMarosa

[MrMarosa]

On 3/16/2017 at 6:46 PM, CaptainJackSparrow said:

Looks great!! My most anticipated film of the summer!! 

Looks awesome. And it is smart of them to bring in an element that may appeal more to women and girls.

[MrMarosa]

On 3/12/2017 at 9:45 AM, Heat Vision said:

Sexualized 15 year old girl. Fucking Bay.

There is nothing sexualised about that little girl in the context of this trailer. This ain't no Megan Fox situation.

[PPZVGOS]

2 hours ago, MrMarosa said:

LOL When the men are action heroes, it's cool. When women are action heroes, it's dismissed as an “empowered female cliché”... Right. That article is just stupid; how awful and disgusting that women are not just portrayed as lovelorn, fragile ingenues anymore. Society is doomed.

 

Where were all the empowered women during all the wars or even during run-of-the-mill military drafts? 

[AniNate]

24 minutes ago, PPZVGOS said:

 

Where were all the empowered women during all the wars or even during run-of-the-mill military drafts? 

 

There are lots of women in the military now. Pretty ridiculous argument.

 

There is a problem with the "action-chick" trope but it's more that they're usually written as a shallow sexual fantasy than that they "de-masculinate" action. I hate using the phrase "strong female character" because the implication of it is that only physical ability can make you a "strong character".

 

Edited March 18, 2017 by tribefan695

[cookie]

10 hours ago, PPZVGOS said:

The De-Masculinization of the Hollywood Action Movie. 

 

I know they say don't judge a book by its cover, or an article by its title, but...

 

Quote

Confident Alpha-males

 

synonymous in popular cultural with masculinity and machismo

 

deliciously feminine "bad-ass chick".

 

I never knew a barely 100lbs. pretty young lady could kick the crap out of so many henchmen thrice her size!

 

de-Masculinization

 

"empowered female"

 

cultural hegemony

 

feminization of the Action Movie

 

politely making room for the newly dominant female gender

 

obsolescence of the formerly dominant male

 

Lmao this is MRA bingo right here

[Neno]

he is right you know. 

[JonathanLB]

I admit I grow weary and a bit annoyed at the cliched action hero girl, if only because the ladies portraying them are actually never badass. That's the problem. It'd be different if you showed me Ronda Rousey kicking ass in a movie because I seriously believe that. Arnold was a badass, in real life, so it's not hard to imagine. A lot of times, these things defy physical explanation to the point of absurdity. I have no issue with Rey in The Force Awakens because it's not earth, it's the GFFA, so that means she can use the Force and I can literally explain away anything by that. It makes perfect sense. Being able to use the Force isn't and hasn't ever been a gender thing. But when you see a 110 pound girl throwing around 225 pound muscular guys like they're toothpicks, well yeah, I mean that does kind of cause me to fall out of the movie. If she's awesome with a gun, and her skills are based on marksmanship, I completely believe that. Have you seen some of these ladies in archery and whatnot? They are incredible! 

 

I just don't think it's too much to ask, guy or girl, that they look the part. No, I don't buy a scrawny little hipster twit being an action star, either. Not unless it's purely with gunplay, and even then, I'm kinda meh on the whole thing. The problem is, you can't ask Hollywood to cast "badass" girls in badass action roles because unlike the movies, there really AREN'T that many badass women. The ones there are cannot act at all, so then you're going to have to teach them. Bottom line, most girls are not muscular, and won't be throwing around guys twice their size. It's not going to happen.

 

I think the above article makes some great points, and I think most people will agree with what is an intelligently written piece. But it's anti-Social Justice Warrior, so of course it won't find much favor among the liberal elite.

[John Marston]

Easily the worst Transformer trailer.Even

i as a fan am deterred by that trailer. What were they thinking? Since it looks lile

sh was talking directly into the camera I hope that little speech isn't in the movie 

[WrathOfHan]

16 minutes ago, JonathanLB said:

I admit I grow weary and a bit annoyed at the cliched action hero girl, if only because the ladies portraying them are actually never badass. That's the problem. It'd be different if you showed me Ronda Rousey kicking ass in a movie because I seriously believe that. Arnold was a badass, in real life, so it's not hard to imagine. A lot of times, these things defy physical explanation to the point of absurdity. I have no issue with Rey in The Force Awakens because it's not earth, it's the GFFA, so that means she can use the Force and I can literally explain away anything by that. It makes perfect sense. Being able to use the Force isn't and hasn't ever been a gender thing. But when you see a 110 pound girl throwing around 225 pound muscular guys like they're toothpicks, well yeah, I mean that does kind of cause me to fall out of the movie. If she's awesome with a gun, and her skills are based on marksmanship, I completely believe that. Have you seen some of these ladies in archery and whatnot? They are incredible! 

 

I just don't think it's too much to ask, guy or girl, that they look the part. No, I don't buy a scrawny little hipster twit being an action star, either. Not unless it's purely with gunplay, and even then, I'm kinda meh on the whole thing. The problem is, you can't ask Hollywood to cast "badass" girls in badass action roles because unlike the movies, there really AREN'T that many badass women. The ones there are cannot act at all, so then you're going to have to teach them. Bottom line, most girls are not muscular, and won't be throwing around guys twice their size. It's not going to happen.

 

I think the above article makes some great points, and I think most people will agree with what is an intelligently written piece. But it's anti-Social Justice Warrior, so of course it won't find much favor among the liberal elite.

[cookie]

20 minutes ago, JonathanLB said:

I admit I grow weary and a bit annoyed at the cliched action hero girl, if only because the ladies portraying them are actually never badass. That's the problem. It'd be different if you showed me Ronda Rousey kicking ass in a movie because I seriously believe that. Arnold was a badass, in real life, so it's not hard to imagine. A lot of times, these things defy physical explanation to the point of absurdity. I have no issue with Rey in The Force Awakens because it's not earth, it's the GFFA, so that means she can use the Force and I can literally explain away anything by that. It makes perfect sense. Being able to use the Force isn't and hasn't ever been a gender thing. But when you see a 110 pound girl throwing around 225 pound muscular guys like they're toothpicks, well yeah, I mean that does kind of cause me to fall out of the movie. If she's awesome with a gun, and her skills are based on marksmanship, I completely believe that. Have you seen some of these ladies in archery and whatnot? They are incredible! 

 

I just don't think it's too much to ask, guy or girl, that they look the part. No, I don't buy a scrawny little hipster twit being an action star, either. Not unless it's purely with gunplay, and even then, I'm kinda meh on the whole thing. The problem is, you can't ask Hollywood to cast "badass" girls in badass action roles because unlike the movies, there really AREN'T that many badass women. The ones there are cannot act at all, so then you're going to have to teach them. Bottom line, most girls are not muscular, and won't be throwing around guys twice their size. It's not going to happen.

 

I think the above article makes some great points, and I think most people will agree with what is an intelligently written piece. But it's anti-Social Justice Warrior, so of course it won't find much favor among the liberal elite.

 

[PPZVGOS]

1 hour ago, tribefan695 said:

 

There are lots of women in the military now. Pretty ridiculous argument.

 

There is a problem with the "action-chick" trope but it's more that they're usually written as a shallow sexual fantasy than that they "de-masculinate" action. I hate using the phrase "strong female character" because the implication of it is that only physical ability can make you a "strong character".

 

 

1) 10,000 years of history are a "pretty ridiculous argument"? In my view, these 10,000 years of warfare are the real-world basis on which the "male hero" archetype is based. This does not apply to women. 

 

2) Are these women suitable for front-line combat? The vast majority of actual fighting around the globe is done by men. Fact. As has been the case throughout the eons. 

 

3) On your "shallow sexual fantasy remark". Yes further criticism and elaboration of the "bad-ass-chick" trope can be made and from different POVs. I concentrated on how the action archetype had developed during the past 3-4 decades in Hollywood. I notice a very clear pattern. I was not even being negative, I was mainly descriptive and analytical. I only made 1 or 2 ironical remarks where I felt it applicable. 

 

4) A "strong character" can be any number of things apart from physical strength, on this I agree 100%. Intelligence, perseverance, devotion, diligence, commitment, forceful and/or charismatic personality (which some women possess in spades) 

 

Don't get me wrong, some of these movies with ass-kicking heroines I love, I was merely describing the underlying socio-ideological trend as I see it. I'm not saying my interpretation can't be criticized. 

 

 

@cookie I am no MRA or anything of that sort. I would maybe describe myself as a polemicist of conventional wisdom and a critique of post-modern, ultra-liberal society. 

[cookie]

1 minute ago, PPZVGOS said:

 

@cookie I am no MRA or anything of that sort. I would maybe describe myself as a polemicist of conventional wisdom and a critique of post-modern, ultra-liberal society. 

 

[DAR]

Diversity is essential to film and tv these days.  And people from all walks of life should demand that they are represented on screen.  And another big blockbuster with a female as the main protagonist, that's awesome.  What isn't awesome is this particular trailer.  It felt forced and clunky.  As for the rest it looked like the same Transformers action we've seen before.

[WrathOfHan]

9 minutes ago, PPZVGOS said:

 

@cookie I am no MRA or anything of that sort. I would maybe describe myself as a polemicist of conventional wisdom and a critique of post-modern, ultra-liberal society. 

[YM!]

12 hours ago, PPZVGOS said:

The De-Masculinization of the Hollywood Action Movie. 

 

Back in the late '70s and early '80s we witnessed action heroes such as Sylvester Stallone and Arnold Schwarzenegger. Confident Alpha-males, who spent their days (and years) at the gym and with some necessary aid from "substances", built-up awesome physiques so that they could be sold to the audience as "action heroes". These heroes became synonymous in popular cultural with masculinity and machismo, starring in such classics as the Rocky franchise (commenced in the late '70s) the Rambo franchise (introduced in the early '80s) The Terminator (1984) Predator (1987) Terminator 2 (1991) etc. 

 

The uber-muscular, juiced-up action hero though, could not last forever. Their replacement process started with 1988's Die Hard, which introduced us to a new type of action hero, one that relied more on wits than brawn. John McClane never really overpowers the "evil-doers", he mostly outsmarts and outwits them. This archetype was further enhanced with such action classics such as Speed (1994) where our hero is not only quick of mind, but also very appealing to a female audience, Mission Impossible (1996) The Rock (1996) etc... This archetype is still partially alive with such long-running franchises as Mission Impossible and Jason Bourne. This type of action hero, is meant to impress the audience much more with his cleverness, sense of humor or even sex-appeal, rather than with his physicality. 

 

The trend that followed the McLane/Hunt/Bourne archetype of the cunning/well-trained hero, was that of the inexplicably effective and deliciously feminine "bad-ass chick". Angelina Jolie was probably the first to embody this new archetype in films such as Tomb Raider (2001) Wanted (2008) and Salt (2010) Scarlet Johansson is the second and even more thunderous specimen of this archetype, with her turn as Natasha Romanoff/Black Widow in the Avengers franchise starting in 2010 with Iron Man 2 through The Avengers (2012) Captain America: Winter Soldier (2014) etc and also in Lucy (2014) and soon to be in Ghost in the Shell (2017) I never knew a barely 100lbs. pretty young lady could kick the crap out of so many henchmen thrice her size! This one has gotten so far, so as to conquer America's greatest ever franchise: Star Wars! We are now two-in-two with cute young women as our action heroines in the new line of Star Wars extravaganzas, The Force Awakens (2015) and Rogue One (2016) 

 

But the latest trend is the most interesting (from a sociological point of view) one yet. We are now all the way down to the prepubescent girl as our action heroine du jour! With Logan (2017) we have been introduced to the deadly mutant known as X-23, a female child even deadlier and more vicious than Wolverine himself! In this same movie, our old male heroes, the Wolverine and Professor X are now totally, depressingly and at times, embarrassingly past their primes and are desperately awaiting for their impending deaths. Can de-Masculinization go any further than this? 

 

The "empowered female" cliche has by now become so prevalent and overbearing in its cultural hegemony, that even the most placid and cliched of Hollywood directors, one Michael bay, is getting in on the act with his latest opus, Transformers: The Last Knight. 

 

A sub-trend that has also evolved in recent years along with the "de-Masculinization of the Action Movie" secular trend, is the introduction of the "Geriatric Male Action Hero" This has been best embodied by Liam Neeson's Taken series of movies (2008, 2012, 2014) in which a visibly old man, albeit tall and apparently sturdy, can deal with countless of much younger, fitter and far more numerous henchmen. The John Wick movies should also be seen in this light, as of course The Expendable series, which is nothing but a self-parody of now seriously ageing former Hollywood action greats. It would be a naive and superficial mistake to view this sub-trend as a reaction or counter-trend to the feminization of the Action Movie. No, the precise function of the "Geriatric Actioner" is to admit and expose the passe nature of the erstwhile Alpha-Male, a way of gently signing off, politely making room for the newly dominant female gender. The "Geriatric Actioner" both signifies and acknowledges the obsolescence of the formerly dominant male.  

 

 

[PDC1987]

1 hour ago, PPZVGOS said:

2) Are these women suitable for front-line combat? The vast majority of actual fighting around the globe is done by men. Fact. As has been the case throughout the eons. 

 

Women give birth, have to deal with PMS and deal with potential health problems that men can't even begin to understand. Shooting a gun isn't an immediate challenge.

Edited March 18, 2017 by PDC1987