Avatar: The Way of Water | 16 DEC 2022 | Don't worry guys, critics like it

[Dementeleus]

He never held the rights to Terminator but that didn't change the fact that it was a 100% Cameron creature.

 

Of course. But it's not quite the same thing as having full and complete ownership over a created universe.

[The Futurist]

Cameron is the perfect combination of the artist and the scientist.

 

That s what makes him universal, he embodies all of the aspects of the human condition and it transpires from all of his movies.

 

Having said that, I really have no clue for the Avatar sequels bo prospects,  probably good.

[Wormhole]

That was only part of your point. And that part of your point is indisputable based on the original's numbers. A film can't make that much money unless it's appealing to all four quadrants. 

 

But whether or not it's ingrained into our culture well enough to sustain sequels with similarly huge numbers is the part of your point I'm arguing over, and I don't think one grandmother/granddaughter pair reasserting their love for the film proves anything.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Wormhole

[The Futurist]

Cameron knew about storytelling very early on.

As a young boy, he read every adventure, sci fi book he could put his hands on.

[tong kosong]

I liked the first one, I even watched it in theaters 3 times (tied with TDKR as the most watched movie in theaters). I found the story as just okay. I watched it mainly because of the visuals, not because of the storyline. The 3D craze definitely helped Avatar's box office performance.

 

I don't talk a lot about Avatar or Avatar 2 with my friends and family. Apparently not many of them knew that Cameron is making the sequel. But that's understandable because it's still more than 2 years away.

 

I'm sure the sequel will be big, but reaching Avatar's number might be tough because the 3D crazy has died down. Unless Cameron made another breakthrough in visual effects, it wouldn't have the novelty factor like the first one had.

[The Futurist]

I fucking give up.

[dashrendar44]

That was only part of your point. And that part of your point is indisputable based on the original's numbers. A film can't make that much money unless it's appealing to all four quadrants. 

 

But whether or not it's ingrained into our culture well enough to sustain sequels with similarly huge numbers is the part of your point I'm arguing over, and I don't think one grandmother/granddaughter reasserting their love for the fim.pair proves anything.

 

I don't think posting gifs on the Internet qualify either.

[The Futurist]

 

JC always a step ahead of us.

[Wormhole]

I don't think posting gifs on the Internet qualify either.

 

And I agree with you there. 

[dashrendar44]

It's funny there is one movie I think that totally embodies the scorn Avatar get about being a big hit with so called non-impact on popular culture.

 

That movie is Alice In Wonderland.

 

Now that's a movie that managed to crack a billion WW just because of 3D novelty riding Avatar's coattails, its story was unoriginal and salvaged Lewis Caroll's book, people flocked expecting flourish visuals a la Avatar (it was at times truly dreadful and trite to look at), nobody talks about it even those who saw it in theaters only speak about it negatively (the only demo that loved it must be emo teenagers who buy into Burton's brand post-2005), no "impact on popular culture" whatsoever, it seems it has vanished (or people are trying hard to erase it from their memory) and yet there are plans of a sequel.

[The Panda]

HP and LOTR existed before the movies, their respective fanbases were huge before any movie adaptation. Then Avatar which had none of those properties hype beforehand and no prior fanbase as such before release blew them out of the water at the first entry. So something stroke the right chord and people did connect to the story beyond the superficial level.

Cameron's tour de force right above. (Woman embraces her lover, Virtuality embraces Reality, Alien embraces Human, Madone embraces son, CG Pixel embraces Flesh, Nature embraces Modernity...It works on so many levels, it's mind-boggling all the topics it can incarnate, it is what makes picture/shot memorable and stand out)

And for the SW comparison, people said the exact same thing about the story just being pretext and people just went multiple times for the showy effects and the flashbang new visuals. Nothing new.

What I think is that online people just think through their western-centric POV lens so they say "Nobody cares about Avatar anymore" inflating their opinion as the undisputable truth, in the cynical and jaded US maybe (I doubt it since it's mostly male online and geeks that complain about Avatar's so called non impact) but worldwide? Overseas there are plenty of emerging countries/markets that are ready to get on the Avatar train again, just China alone could bring massive chunks of doughs due to its constant developing market. So if Cameron's team engineers some kind of cutting edge presentation to match the UltraHD era and develops the adequate story to go along with it, how do you know it won't catch fire just like the first one did?

Take out the LOTR example and throw in Star Wars, same situation only Star Wars built a thriving fanbase nearly immediately and kept its cultural resonance.

I'm not saying Avatar hasn't made an impact but it's not nearly as resonant as a 700m film should be. It was a heavily successful film, and the second will still make a killing, but id say at bare minimum a 40%+ drop is inevitable domestic wise (I'm personally thinking around 450m) and a drop is definitely due worldwide wise.

Star Wars had a bigger cultural influence than avatar (much, much bigger, it isn't comparable which was more impactful) and Empire still had a 50% drop from the first. Without being as ingrained in the current culture as Star Wars was it just points to less sequel anticipation and a large drop-off (plus 3D will not be nearly as effective this time around). It's crazy to think it won't.

[Hatebox]

Moving on from the indefinable 'cultural' argument...

 

I think the trick to the sequels doing really well is for them to keep Jake as an audience surrogate. His arc in the first had a lot in common with Neo, right down to the final "I've realised my full potential!" scene, but what killed the Matrix sequels was that Neo was no longer the audience's entry point to this crazy new world. You spent half the time wondering why he was doing the things he did, and soon there was no one left to empathise with.

 

Cameron's good at character beats, so I think he'll realise the importance of maintaining the protagonist's sense of wonder. Because that's our wonder too.

[RobinHood26]

Well see in 40 years how Avatar holds up. Wake me up then. 

[The Futurist]

Well see in 40 years how Avatar holds up. Wake me up then. 

 

And ?

[75Live]

Well see in 40 years how Avatar holds up. Wake me up then. 

 

Ok, Rip, we will set the alarm clock now

[RobinHood26]

And ?

 

Its impossible to say its as impressive as Star Wars until we wait that long. 

[Orestes]

Avatar was like cinematic chinese food. I liked it well enough, but 2 hours later it was like I hadn't watched anything at all. Almost nothing from the film stuck. Still, it would be nice if its contribution to film to date had been anything other than inflicting 3D on damn near every other movie. I've had to pass up seeing films in IMAX because the only option was 3D.

 

Hopefully Cameron doesn't bust out Smell-O-Vision for Ava2ar. Having to give up theater going altogether would make me sad.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Orestes

[Moviedweeb]

Avatar was and is awesome.

[The Futurist]

Every movie ages and is prisonner of the era it was shot.

 

There s not timeless classic.

[Orestes]

Every movie ages and is prisonner of the era it was shot.

 

There s not timeless classic.

 

Yes there are. To Kill A Mockingbird and 12 Angry Men for starters.