Avatar: The Way of Water | 16 DEC 2022 | Don't worry guys, critics like it

[vc2002]

People seem to forget how big an opening Avatar actually had. 77M in December is nothing to be sniffed at. This idea that there was no hype is simply wrong.

 

I don't think anyone said that. 77m is a great OW for original movies, and the marketing obviously worked, but to make it clear, this hype or no hype discussion originated from the wknd thread and this DavidBrennan dude was arguing in the wknd thread that "Avatar had more hype than JW". He also claimed that Avatar, in his words, "had virtually no competition" while JW had a shit load of it, so I guess he's just trying hard to prove that JW's success is more surprising than Avatar, and JW is a more deserving 600m grosser than Avatar.

[kayumanggi]

I actually look forward to see what reasonings detractors use to justify AVATAR 2's imminent success. I guarantee you that, in spite of the fact that they keep claiming that AVATAR was not loved by anybody and that it was a fluke, and therefore, a sequel is bound to flop, when the sequel smashes, the first thing that they will say is "how could it not succeed? It is a sequel to the top grossing film of all time! The only reason it smashed is because of all the hype due to its being a sequel to a 2.7-billion-grossing film." 

And I will remind them: "But wait...wasn't it bound to flop because nobody loved the first? I am confused..."

 

The GA doesn't give a shit about cosplays, nerd conventions, or a film's stronghold on the geek community. There is plenty of people, more than enough actually, in the GA that enjoyed the heck out of AVATAR and will go watch the sequel. Butthurt geeks can bash it all they want, but it will be a hit with the masses, just like the first one.

 

 

Then we'll have years worth of more "It was a hit only because..." excuses.

 

From the usual suspects. lol

[Avatree]

I don't think anyone said that. 77m is a great OW for original movies, and the marketing obviously worked, but to make it clear, this hype or no hype discussion originated from the wknd thread and this DavidBrennan dude was arguing in the wknd thread that "Avatar had more hype than JW". He also claimed that Avatar, in his words, "had virtually no competition" while JW had a shit load of it, so I guess he's just trying hard to prove that JW's success is more surprising than Avatar, and JW is a more deserving 600m grosser than Avatar.

[Elessar]

 

[dashrendar44]

I actually look forward to see what reasonings detractors use to justify AVATAR 2's imminent success. I guarantee you that, in spite of the fact that they keep claiming that AVATAR was not loved by anybody and that it was a fluke, and therefore, a sequel is bound to flop, when the sequel smashes, the first thing that they will say is "how could it not succeed? It is a sequel to the top grossing film of all time! The only reason it smashed is because of all the hype due to its being a sequel to a 2.7-billion-grossing film." 

And I will remind them: "But wait...wasn't it bound to flop because nobody loved the first? I am confused..."

 

The GA doesn't give a shit about cosplays, nerd conventions, or a film's stronghold on the geek community. There is plenty of people, more than enough actually, in the GA that enjoyed the heck out of AVATAR and will go watch the sequel. Butthurt geeks can bash it all they want, but it will be a hit with the masses, just like the first one.

 

 

Then we'll have years worth of more "It was a hit only because..." excuses.

 

The world outside the US is not made of ridiculous jaded cynics that turn everything into shitty memes online as a measure stick of their cultural relevancy. Avatar 2 could gross 2B without the US, that's how big it is and how irrelevant Avatar detractors claiming a so-called backlash will be. Butthurt geeks salty tears will be priceless once Cameron proves them wrong three times in a row. What they don't understand is that the movie, no matter how trite you armchair script experts think it is, immersed the GA in an realistic alien world they'd like to visit many times and sent an universal message that no Avengers, no Jurassic World has.

[DavidBrennan]

It was only nerds and geeks that watched and kept on piling on it online as soon as it was released(Avatar hatred online began that day then South Park picked on it later on). Stop the revisionism. It wasn't on GA map until the last trailer at the earliest. I was at the Avatar day the day after that 1st trailer was released to a meh reception online, the only people there were geeks, Cameron fans and scifi/action genre cinephiles, none were GA, those who propelled the movie at the top. If GA was already on Avatar hype train since august 23rd, why didn't people rush to see the exclusive brand new footage in theaters for free?

 

I'm not sure of the point of this, but if you're claiming that AVTR was a small movie that caught people off guard in the post after a link proving it had the most downloaded trailer in history four months prior to release, it's an empirically false statement.

 

Here's BOM on its opening weekend, "massive amounts of hype".  BOM notes it would have the December record, which it missed by an inch, were it not for blizzards in the northeast.

 

So the numbers and the contemporaneous record is clear: AVTR, the most expensive movie of all time, was also one of the most hyped and anticipated by the general audiences. 

 

It's hilarious for me, somebody who was tracking all of this closely, to now come back six years later and see history being written as the complete opposite of the reality.

[dashrendar44]

Read carefully again.

Edited June 22, 2015 by MADash Rendar

[DavidBrennan]

Re-read carefully again.

 

once was plenty

[Killimano3]

Anyone have an idea what Avatar's ticket sales were really like? Just curious since it was pretty much 101% 3D tickets and most of them were especially expensive 3D tickets

[dashrendar44]

once was plenty

Nope because you still didn't understand the point that GA wasn't on Avatar's hype train from the get-go until the last trailer at the earliest and you're oblivious that the first teaser was panned by the online crowd. Online views mean it was watched, not universally loved and praised. GA didn't rush to attend Avatar day.

[Jessie]

"the public hadn't heard of it 3 months prior to release".

 

August 23rd, 2009:

AVTR becomes the most watched trailer in history:

http://www.edibleapple.com/2009/08/23/avatar-becomes-most-watched-trailer-in-applecom-history/

 

Why do you lie to try and make this super-hyped, super-publicized 240m blockbuster seem like a small indie movie?  Isn't the being the #1 movie ever enough for you?

 

You don't get it, it was the biggest movie of all time because of the lack of hype. If you hype a film up, you set expectations high making it harder for the film to meet them. With Avatar, because it wasn't a brand not many people really knew what to expect from it so when they were blown away by it, the WOM was much stronger for it.

 

And as Dash said, this thing was massively hyped on the internet where nerds like ourselves kept re-watching the trailer but I remember the blank faces I used to get when I brought this movie up in the office a few months prior to it being released. Hype only starting building amongst the GA when that final trailer came out, not long before the movies release.

[DavidBrennan]

Nope because you still didn't understand the point that GA wasn't on Avatar's hype train from the get-go until the last trailer at the earliest and you're oblivious that the first teaser was panned by the online crowd. Online views mean it was watched, not universally loved and praised. GA didn't rush to attend Avatar day.

 

This is a word salad of unfalsifiable junk statements.

 

-The movie had the most downloaded trailer of all time....four months before release.  Proof the masses were anticipating it.

-Contemporaneous media accounts (including Slate, BoxOfficeMojo, and others) described - correctly - AVTR as having <i>"massive amounts of hype"</i> before release.  They were there writing live (as was I), you are trying to rewrite history.  They have more credibility.

-You are correct about the first teaser: it was hugely anticipated because AVTR was such a hugely hyped movie.  The trailer was meek, and fanboys mocked it.  The audiences at large were obviously still interested in the hype train.

-AVTR Day was a novel marketing gimmick which, as a unique historical event, is a literal anomaly and therefore has no true peers and no relevance for comparison.  The only statement that can be made about AVTR Day was it demonstrates the enormity of Fox's marketing campaign for the movie.

[DavidBrennan]

You don't get it, it was the biggest movie of all time because of the lack of hype. If you hype a film up, you set expectations high making it harder for the film to meet them. With Avatar, because it wasn't a brand not many people really knew what to expect from it so when they were blown away by it, the WOM was much stronger for it.

 

And as Dash said, this thing was massively hyped on the internet where nerds like ourselves kept re-watching the trailer but I remember the blank faces I used to get when I brought this movie up in the office a few months prior to it being released. Hype only starting building amongst the GA when that final trailer came out, not long before the movies release.

 

"lack of hype" for AVTR. lolol

 

100% bogus.  some random pre-release sites specifically using "hype" in their descriptions of AVTR:

 

RT: http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/avatar/news/1859804/tomatometer_watch_will_avatar_live_up_to_the_hype/

BOM: http://www.boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=2632&p=.htm

Slate: http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/movies/2009/12/here_come_the_cats_with_human_boobs.html

 

And here's a quick Google search using the word "hype" from two weeks before release:

https://www.google.com/search?q=avatar+%22hype%22+&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A12%2F1%2F2009%2Ccd_max%3A12%2F19%2F2009&tbm=

[Jessie]

"lack of hype" for AVTR. lolol

 

100% bogus.  some random pre-release sites specifically using "hype" in their descriptions of AVTR:

 

RT: http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/avatar/news/1859804/tomatometer_watch_will_avatar_live_up_to_the_hype/

BOM: http://www.boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=2632&p=.htm

Slate: http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/movies/2009/12/here_come_the_cats_with_human_boobs.html

 

And here's a quick Google search using the word "hype" from two weeks before release:

https://www.google.com/search?q=avatar+%22hype%22+&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A12%2F1%2F2009%2Ccd_max%3A12%2F19%2F2009&tbm=

 

I really couldn't care less what 'random sites' use in their articles, we probably know more than them anyway. Sure it was hyped, but it wasn't one of the most hyped movies of all time. There were far more movies released in 2009 that were more hyped than Avatar amongst general movie goers. I don't know why you are arguing this so much, what are you trying to achieve.

 

BTW I love how you are using movie sites only visiting by film nerds to prove the movie was massively hyped amongst the GA, completely pointless lol.

[DavidBrennan]

I really couldn't care less what 'random sites' use in their articles, we probably know more than them anyway. Sure it was hyped, but it wasn't one of the most hyped movies of all time. There were far more movies released in 2009 that were more hyped than Avatar amongst general movie goers. I don't know why you are arguing this so much, what are you trying to achieve.

 

BTW I love how you are using movie sites only visiting by film nerds to prove the movie was massively hyped amongst the GA, completely pointless lol.

 

Slate is a "movie nerd" site?  Google is, too?  Regardless, BOM wrote as a box office metric forecaster, not your hated "movie nerd".

 

Anyway, you claim AVTR had no hype among the "GA".  What's your source?  Thanks!

[DavidBrennan]

Good article on how AVTR is the most forgotten blockbuster:

 

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2013/08/05/avatar_sequels_three_no_one_cares_here_s_why.html

 

People hate on 'Home Alone' for becoming a top 10 smash in 1990.  I have no doubt people remember the characters, punchlines, and it gets bigger audiences today than AVTR will 25 years on.  Hell, Home Alone might top AVTR in TV ratings already.

[Jessie]

Good article on how AVTR is the most forgotten blockbuster:

 

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2013/08/05/avatar_sequels_three_no_one_cares_here_s_why.html

 

People hate on 'Home Alone' for becoming a top 10 smash in 1990.  I have no doubt people remember the characters, punchlines, and it gets bigger audiences today than AVTR will 25 years on.  Hell, Home Alone might top AVTR in TV ratings already.

 

So what, Home Alone was adored, its a classic Christmas movie, that's doesn't make Avatar any less loved lol.

 

so either the writers of Slate have taken the time to speak to the hundreds of millions of people worldwide to prove Avatar has been forgotten about or they are just assuming the human race are a dumb bunch with a memory span of just 5 years. But wait, didn't it break the record for most blue-rays sold?

[DavidBrennan]

So what, Home Alone was adored, its a classic Christmas movie, that's doesn't make Avatar any less loved lol.

 

so either the writers of Slate have taken the time to speak to the hundreds of millions of people worldwide to prove Avatar has been forgotten about or they are just assuming the human race are a dumb bunch with a memory span of just 5 years. But wait, didn't it break the record for most blue-rays sold?

 

Sure....when its BD was released at peak BD four months from its release.  I agree there was tremendous hype about it at that time, and so it goes without saying a quick home video turnaround would be a hit.

 

But how did its Special Edition video sale go (a fantastic project with tons of new footage and comprehensive "making of" vids)?  How did its Special Edition BO run go?  How are its current TV ratings?

[Jessie]

Sure....when its BD was released at peak BD four months from its release.  I agree there was tremendous hype about it at that time, and so it goes without saying a quick home video turnaround would be a hit.

 

But how did its Special Edition video sale go (a fantastic project with tons of new footage and comprehensive "making of" vids)?  How did its Special Edition BO run go?  How are its current TV ratings?

 

Special edition was released like 8 months after the first theatrical release, around the same time people were putting its blueray sales to record heights lol. it had already made 2.78b and you're essentially saying because it earned no more in its special edition that barely anyone knew about (or cared about), it had been forgotten bout just 8 months after release lmao. Please continue

[dashrendar44]

This is a word salad of unfalsifiable junk statements.

 

-The movie had the most downloaded trailer of all time....four months before release.  Proof the masses were anticipating it.

-Contemporaneous media accounts (including Slate, BoxOfficeMojo, and others) described - correctly - AVTR as having <i>"massive amounts of hype"</i> before release.  They were there writing live (as was I), you are trying to rewrite history.  They have more credibility.

-You are correct about the first teaser: it was hugely anticipated because AVTR was such a hugely hyped movie.  The trailer was meek, and fanboys mocked it.  The audiences at large were obviously still interested in the hype train.

-AVTR Day was a novel marketing gimmick which, as a unique historical event, is a literal anomaly and therefore has no true peers and no relevance for comparison.  The only statement that can be made about AVTR Day was it demonstrates the enormity of Fox's marketing campaign for the movie.

 

-That's a bunch of revisionism and shortcuts statement. Who download trailers online? Nerds and geeks not the masses.

 

-You're quoting hipster and nerd sites. GA don't give a fuck about Slate or BO Mojo. Do you even read the article you linked? Slate's article is subtitled: "IS AVATAR DESTINED TO FLOP?"

 

 

The one weak point here may be the romance angle. Avatar will need repeat business to be a true smash. Obviously, most of that will depend on whether the movie is any good. It will also require, though, that Avatar appeal to women. In Titanic, Leonardo DiCaprio kissed Kate Winslet. In Avatar, Sam Worthington smooches a cat lady. An industry analyst who's seen the studio tracking data tells me that the XX crowd has yet to cotton to the latter image. Compare that to Sherlock Holmes, coming out on Christmas Day, which appears to be a true four-quadrant picture, appealing to under-25 men, over-25 men, under-25 women, and over-25 women.

 

Yeah, such a sign of a massive hype among GA that the article states that Sherlock Holmes is more of a four quadrant smash hit in the making than Avatar and that Avatar being a smash hit solely rely on WOM to be good after release. Yep, that same article mentions Yahoo search datas showing that Avatar, one week prior release, had the same search volume as Wolverine:Origins, a movie only driven by fanboys...MASSIVE hype among GA indeed. Ridiculous.

 

-The general audience didn't care about Avatar until the last trailer. Prior to that, only the internet was geeking out. You know internet people didn't equal general audience in 2009. The families, grandmas and grandpas that went to see Avatar didn't download the trailers to watch and nitpick it gazillion times.

 

-Yeah, you keep arguing that Avatar was such a massive hype among GA since the teaser release but Avatar day which was the marketing event set to spread the word to GA that wasn't attended by them massively related to that so-called hype is now irrelevant just because it doesn't suit your argument. How convenient.

 

It wasn't until Fox ramped up the marketing by releasing a full trailer telling the whole movie that GA became aware there was a movie called Avatar being due to release in the next few weeks. And once again, the opening weekend wasn't one of the supermassive hype movie of all time bound to shatter records from the get-go like you claim it was.

 

Next.

Edited June 22, 2015 by MADash Rendar