Avatar: The Way of Water | 16 DEC 2022 | Don't worry guys, critics like it

[Elessar]

26 minutes ago, DamienRoc said:

 

What defines a "true epic"?

 

Arguably, he's been smart enough to realize the limitations of the tools he's had available.

 

If you know your budget is only going to be $30m, then you'll probably not try to make the next High Fantasy film with a climax battle that requires hundreds of extras. You'll figure out what sort of stories you can do within that budget and go from there.

 

I wasn't necessarily talking about scope.

 

Cameron did T1 for chump change and he killed it. That's what i'm talking a about.

 

Anyway, don't want to harp about it.

[incognitoo]

38 minutes ago, DamienRoc said:

 

What defines a "true epic"?

 

Arguably, he's been smart enough to realize the limitations of the tools he's had available.

 

If you know your budget is only going to be $30m, then you'll probably not try to make the next High Fantasy film with a climax battle that requires hundreds of extras. You'll figure out what sort of stories you can do within that budget and go from there.

 

I'd even argue that you need a climax battle with hundreds of extras at all to create something really epic. Some of Sergio Leone's mid-sixty shoestring budgeted western movies come to my mind. Or Annaud's L'Ours.

Edited January 5, 2016 by incognitoo
correcting typo

[Dementeleus]

Even back when he was making the first movie, Cameron admitted he was keeping the story and characters simple and familiar because he was asking audiences to deal with so much that was unfamiliar (technologically and visually, primarily). I hope this time he dials up the complexity all the way around. 

[baumer]

I truly love Cameron's work.  He really is a pioneer and a trailblazer.  He has been making genre defining films for more than 30 years.  While Avatar isn't my favourite Cameron film, that's ok.  When you have made iconic films like Terminator and Aliens and Titanic, saying that Avatar isn't quite up there with those ones is not a sleight against it.  I think the next films he puts out are going to be really something special.  

[BadAtGender]

8 minutes ago, Telemachos said:

Even back when he was making the first movie, Cameron admitted he was keeping the story and characters simple and familiar because he was asking audiences to deal with so much that was unfamiliar (technologically and visually, primarily). I hope this time he dials up the complexity all the way around. 

 

Yeah. There's only so much you can ask your audience to deal with. It's why you usually find sci-fi novels to have pretty plain and straightforward language. I once tried to start a novel where my narrator had a very idiosyncratic linguistic style. Even beyond the problem with writing the damn thing (because it broke my brain), I realize that I was asking too much of the reader, because the world was also fantastic.

 

Once people are familiar with the world, you can play around.

[Dementeleus]

1 minute ago, DamienRoc said:

 

Yeah. There's only so much you can ask your audience to deal with. It's why you usually find sci-fi novels to have pretty plain and straightforward language. I once tried to start a novel where my narrator had a very idiosyncratic linguistic style. Even beyond the problem with writing the damn thing (because it broke my brain), I realize that I was asking too much of the reader, because the world was also fantastic.

 

Once people are familiar with the world, you can play around.

 

Random aside: have you tackled "Ancillary Justice" yet? Dealing with those pronouns makes my brain hurt. (Great book, though.)

[BadAtGender]

2 minutes ago, Telemachos said:

 

Random aside: have you tackled "Ancillary Justice" yet? Dealing with those pronouns makes my brain hurt. (Great book, though.)

 

Oh, yeah. I love the series.

 

I didn't find it mind breaking so much, probably because I didn't seem to start running the mental loops that most people I talked to did: they kept trying to figure out whether the characters were men or women. Once I got what she was doing with the pronoun thing, I just accepted it at face value. In my mental image, ALL the characters are women. Some of them have beards, though.

[Dementeleus]

3 minutes ago, DamienRoc said:

In my mental image, ALL the characters are women. Some of them have beards, though.

 

 

 

 

[AniNate]

Even back when he was making the first movie, Cameron admitted he was keeping the story and characters simple and familiar because he was asking audiences to deal with so much that was unfamiliar (technologically and visually, primarily). I hope this time he dials up the complexity all the way around. 

Going back to my idea about the other researchers becoming antagonists, I think it would be a great twist of irony if Jake's human body became his "avatar" in the sequels; something he goes back to as a diplomatic concession to the other humans.

They seemed to be setting something up with Norm's character; killing his avatar while he still lives

[vc2002]

Exploring more of Pandora is of cause a must-do for Avatar sequels, but I will be really disappointed if Cameron doesn't explore more of the Earth as well.

[BadAtGender]

10 minutes ago, Telemachos said:

 

 

 

 

 

Hey, anything to undermine those rigid gender roles.

[AniNate]

Exploring more of Pandora is of cause a must-do for Avatar sequels, but I will be really disappointed if Cameron doesn't explore more of the Earth as well.

I think more could be done with Selfridge. That probably won't happen with this film, though

[Elessar]

15 minutes ago, vc2002 said:

Exploring more of Pandora is of cause a must-do for Avatar sequels, but I will be really disappointed if Cameron doesn't explore more of the Earth as well.

 

I'd love to see that but i'm afraid narratively it doesn't make much sense. I mean, other than in the beginning as kind of a prologue (like in the extra long alternate cut of Avatar), where would you put Earth in there?

[AniNate]

I think in the third or fourth movies you could start a parallel narrative about the planning of a counter attack, assuming Cameron has a bigger showdown in mind

[Elessar]

I dunno about that. What would it be about? Senate speeches? That worked out so great in Star Wars.

[Ozymandias]

So will resurrected zombie Quaritch be even more of a cartoon villain?

[vc2002]

32 minutes ago, tribefan695 said:

 

I think more could be done with Selfridge. That probably won't happen with this film, though

 

28 minutes ago, Elessar said:

 

I'd love to see that but i'm afraid narratively it doesn't make much sense. I mean, other than in the beginning as kind of a prologue (like in the extra long alternate cut of Avatar), where would you put Earth in there?

 

The sequels can't be just Navi's civil wars. IMO the biggest showdown of the sequels has to be Navi vs the coming-to-revenge humans which requires the Earth being shown a lot in the movie.

[IronJimbo]

8 minutes ago, vc2002 said:

The sequels can't be just Navi's civil wars. IMO the biggest showdown of the sequels has to be Navi vs the coming-to-revenge humans which requires the Earth being shown a lot in the movie.

 

I predict Avatar 2 is purely Na'vi on pandora and #3 will have the humans return.

 

[Dark 33Legend of the Sith]

I love Cameron's work as well. One of the best directors ever IMO.  Titanic is in my top 10 and I love Avatar, the Terminators, Aliens and True Lies. When The Abyss is my least favorite Cameron film I've seen and I rate it 8/10, that is something special.

 

Can't wait for what he has in store for the Avatar sequels.

[XXRDJisDoctorDoom]

3 minutes ago, Dark 33Legend of the Sith said:

I love Cameron's work as well. One of the best directors ever IMO.  Titanic is in my top 10 and I love Avatar, the Terminators, Aliens and True Lies. When The Abyss is my least favorite Cameron film I've seen and I rate it 8/10, that is something special.

 

Can't wait for what he has in store for the Avatar sequels.

Same here. T2 is my favorite JC movie (IMO the 2nd best sequel ever behind Dark Knight) with Avatar my second favorite of his. 

I wasn't a huge movie goer until recently, but Avatar was the second movie I ever saw multiple times in theaters (again behind Dark Knight lol). You already know Avatar 2 will be a technical masterpiece, I just hope the story is unexpected and unique