Avatar: The Way of Water | 16 DEC 2022 | Don't worry guys, critics like it

[The Futurist]

22 minutes ago, Jayhawk the Hutt said:

Come on now.

 

I stand by it, Alien & Blade Runner are two of the most accidental masterpieces in the history of film, chaos allowed these movies to exist.

Scott s career proved that in spades.

 

Everything you see in Aliens comes mostly from Cameron s mind, his interpretation of the Aliens you FINALLY see, the Queen, the world building , spaceships, the radars & blips, the weapons of the Space Marines, the complex geography of the place, the Mother theme & the expansion of Ripley the character becoming the ultimate action heroine, the Space Marines themselves, the FIRST mecha  shot on film etc etc

 

Cameron doesn't do chaos.

 

Michael Biehn would tell you the stories about how between takes for Teminator, Cameron would talk about all of his ideas he had in mind and they d listen to the madman rambling about sci fi concepts and ideas.

 

You may dislike Avatar but Cameron could talk to you for 3 hours about every image you see in the film in details, engineering , design and whatnot .

Edited January 7, 2016 by The Futurist

[Ozymandias]

3 minutes ago, DamienRoc said:

 

 

Hmm... Hmm... I'm conflicted about which is better. They're both really good, but in very different ways.

 

I would say, though, that while Alien is Ridley Scott's best film (by a pretty considerable margin, IMO), Aliens is NOT Cameron's best.

 

Bladerunner is Ridley Scott's best.  Both Terminator films are better than Aliens. 

 

I really wish Jim was doing Alita or something, hes capable of so much more than goofy thundersmurf land.  At this rate, Avatar 2, 3, and 4 are gonna be the last things he does.

[Jayhawk the Hutt]

Just now, The Futurist said:

 

I stand by it, Alien & Blade Runner are two of the most accidental masterpieces in the history of film, chaos allowed these movies to exist.

Scott s career proved that in spades.

 

Everything you see in Aliens comes mostly from Cameron s mind, his interpretation of the Aliens you FINALLY see, the Queen, the world building , spaceships, the radars & blips, the weapons of the Space Marines, the complex geography of the place, the Mother theme, the Space Marines, the FIRST mechs shot on film etc etc

 

Cameron doesn't do chaos.

 

Michael Biehn would tell you the stories about how between takes for Teminator, Cameron would talk about all of his ideas he had in mind and they d listen to the madman rambling about sci fi concepts and ideas.

 

You may dislike Avatar but Cameron could talk to you for 3 hours about every image you see in the film in details, engineering , design and whatnot .

When did I ever say I disliked Avatar? I'm not talking about Cameron or his process, it was your implication that the success Alien was somehow a mistake. I said it before and I'll say it again, I love Aliens, just not as much as the original. I have no problem with you liking Aliens more at all.

[The Futurist]

I am just trying to explain why I admire Aliens so much.

 

 

But Alien, classic.

Duh.

[The Futurist]

Also, the making ofs of the latest editions are fascinating.

 

The reasons why Alien exist are incredible, rising out of the ashes of Jodorowski s Dune, finding Giger, the evil concept of the monster etc so many blind lucks.

Kudos to Scott though, he created the sandbox and Alien is phenomenal in every way, Scott is a brilliant director visually, he s a frustrated painter and it shows, his understanding of composition, framing and lighting.

 

Aliens' making of starts and ends with Cameron in every bit, when all the special effects guys admit that Cameron found the solution to an SFX problem and they have to say : " James was right"

Seeing Cameron testing the Queen puppet etc from his own design helped by Winston of course.

[WrathOfHan]

1 hour ago, Telemachos said:

Alien is a really enjoyable, well-made '70s horror-thriller, packed with archetypical characters and great ambience... And there's nothing wrong with that.

 

Aliens, on the other hand, is a timeless masterpiece. It is better shot, better written with well-realized and more nuanced characters, it has better art-direction and an atmosphere that's simply unmatched.
 

Imo.

 

Yes

Debatable

No

Yes

Debatable

No

[langer]

You guys are all wrong.  Prometheus rules all.

[Jayhawk the Hutt]

2 minutes ago, langer said:

You guys are all wrong.  Prometheus rules all.

[incognitoo]

3 hours ago, WrathOfHan said:

But do you feel that sense of dread when someone dies? Not really.

Exactly. Because them soldiers are either going down cannonfodder style or semi heroic mode. Not much dread there to feel compared to the deaths of Kane and Brett or the sadistic slaughter of Parker and Lambert. But in the end it is still Aliens that got more views by moi, though I think Alien is the better movie artwise.

[Ozymandias]

Haven't seen Kal in awhile.

[incognitoo]

3 hours ago, The Futurist said:

Aliens made Ripley Iconic.

 

Deal With It.

Alien made Weaver famous.

 

But to each their own preferences I'd say.

[incognitoo]

3 hours ago, The Futurist said:

"Mommy !!!!"

 

Cry like a bay in fetal position.

 

 

Also does Alien has a " Get Away from her You Bitch !" line, mmmhh ???

Didn't think so.

 

So many quotables lines in Aiens.

 

Just why do I get the impression you are just trying to pull a leg on us Alien fans here? :o)

[incognitoo]

2 hours ago, RascarCapat said:

Of course a team of trained soldiers can fight better than the Nostromo crew but still I enjoy this idea much less.

 

But this was the whole joke of it. A well trained and heavily armed troop of soldiers these "bugs" should be not match for, get's decimated and demoralized like one-two-three. The Aliens weren't neither dumb nor less deadly as the loner in Alien. I think it is the fault of Cameron have to had his idio... unnecessary gunporn shot in the movie (the autogun sequence), because that really hurt the reputation of the aliens being intelligent killer machines and did make them appear as well, stupid bugs.

[Dementeleus]

1 minute ago, incognitoo said:

 

But this was the whole joke of it. A well trained and heavily armed troop of soldiers these "bugs" should be not match for, get's decimated and demoralized like one-two-three. The Aliens weren't neither dumb nor less deadly as the loner in Alien. I think it is the fault of Cameron have to had his idio... unnecessary gunporn shot in the movie (the autogun sequence), because that really hurt the reputation of the aliens being intelligent killer machines and did make them appear as well, stupid bugs.

 

Well, the autogun sequence isn't in the theatrical edition. I'd also argue it doesn't make the xenomorphs appear stupid either. They try one method of entry, knowing they have strength in numbers, but when that fails (or appears to fail -- it would've succeeded had they kept at it), they move on to another plan. This is basically a micro-version of almost every invasion plan ever.

[incognitoo]

2 hours ago, The Futurist said:

Alien is a lucky B movie that stumbled on Giger s illustrations.

 

Aliens is a movie of grand designs & thoughts.

 

 

 

You do realize you were going full kal just now? XD

[Ozymandias]

All the bugs charging the auto sentry guns was the Xenomorph D-Day.

[incognitoo]

10 minutes ago, Telemachos said:

 

Well, the autogun sequence isn't in the theatrical edition. I'd also argue it doesn't make the xenomorphs appear stupid either. They try one method of entry, knowing they have strength in numbers, but when that fails (or appears to fail -- it would've succeeded had they kept at it), they move on to another plan. This is basically a micro-version of almost every invasion plan ever.

 

I am with you on that one, since it classic problem solving style (throw some numbers against a problem and see if it vanishes). As for the theatrical release, I am aware of that. If that makes my point insubstancial then be it so. :o)

[incognitoo]

18 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

All the bugs charging the auto sentry guns was the Xenomorph D-Day.

 

Saving Private Morphy eh?

[BadAtGender]

Aliens is a remake of Zulu.

[The Futurist]

51 minutes ago, incognitoo said:

 

You do realize you were going full kal just now? XD

 

Dan O Bannon's words, not mine, at least the Alien part, not the exact words but he totally says  that in the making of.

 

Alien was just a B Horror movie to him and what changed everything was the idea of the Alien and how it reproduces (not sure who came up with the idea, don't remember) and Giger's breathtaking designs.

Edited January 7, 2016 by The Futurist