James' Top 50 Of The Decade So Far (It all ends here...)

[dashrendar44]

Comparing Zimmer to Williams is comparing Marylin Manson to Mozart in terms of skills, arrangements, style, instruments usage and musical proficiency.

 

Listen to any Williams action cues, it's mind-boggling complex (time signatures, thematic variations, dynamics changes, modulations, intricate melodies and motifs that dialogue with each others) and lush (full use of symphonic/philarmonic orchestra), Zimmer sounds like David Guetta in comparison. Ask London Symphonic Orchestra to play a Zimmer tune, they'd play that shit paper asleep without even watching the sheets while laughing how pedestrian, simplistic (and not "minimalist") and monotone it is.

 

Two action/battle scene score:

 

Listen to this:

 

 

and then this

 

 

I double dare you to tell me that the second tune is in any way more inventive, more wild, more lush, more melodic, more nuanced, more thrilling musically, as crystal clear (you can hear each section layered and panned at a special place in the whole spectrum around your ears). Any classical musician would be bored out of their mind to play the second tune whereas the first one takes more attention, craft, skill and dedication to play as heard because the writing is more intricate and interesting in terms of arrangements and how melodies are layered and patched thoughout the orchestra. Zimmer is "ALL HORNS PLAY THE LOUD NOTES!", "ALL BRASS PLAY THE SAME LOUD NOTES!" "ALL STRINGS PLAY THE SAME LOOPING NOTES, FORTE!", "LOUD DRUMS!", "WOODWINDS"  ad nauseum.

[Avatree]

 

"Hans Zimmer" is really a collective of 27 aliens from the planet Bwahm.*

 

 

 

 

 

 

* this is actually not that far off the truth.

 

The only time I think the BWAHM foghorn is appropriate is when it's Ramin Djawadi...

 

 

Actually, he also "produced" Klaus Baldelt's score for the first movie. 

Yes I know, that's what I'm saying.

[Jessie]

I love the POTC score, it's a pure adrenaline rush and some what underrated imo

[Dementeleus]

I'm not someone who's musically trained at all -- and I tend to like Zimmer's music. But there's still no question as to what's more complex and nuanced... and I think Zimmer would probably agree. He doesn't have a formal music education -- he's self-taught and even calls himself "just a rock-n-roller at heart".

[James]

Comparing Zimmer to Williams is comparing Marylin Manson to Mozart in terms of skills, arrangements, style, instruments usage and musical proficiency.

 

Listen to any Williams action cues, it's mind-boggling complex (time signatures, thematic variations, dynamics changes, modulations, intricate melodies and motifs that dialogue with each others) and lush (full use of symphonic/philarmonic orchestra), Zimmer sounds like David Guetta in comparison. Ask London Symphonic Orchestra to play a Zimmer tune, they'd play that shit paper asleep without even watching the sheets while laughing how pedestrian, simplistic (and not "minimalist") and monotone it is.

 

Two action/battle scene score:

 

Listen to this:

 

 

and then this

 

 

I double dare you to tell me that the second tune is in any way more inventive, more wild, more lush, more melodic, more nuanced, more thrilling musically, as crystal clear (you can hear each section layered and panned at a special place in the whole spectrum around your ears). Any classical musician would be bored out of their mind to play the second tune whereas the first one takes more attention, craft, skill and dedication to play as heard because the writing is more intricate and interesting in terms of arrangements and how melodies are layered and patched thoughout the orchestra. Zimmer is "ALL HORNS PLAY THE LOUD NOTES!", "ALL BRASS PLAY THE SAME LOUD NOTES!" "ALL STRINGS PLAY THE SAME LOOPING NOTES, FORTE!", "LOUD DRUMS!", "WOODWINDS"  ad nauseum.

So you are basically saying one is better than the other because one has a more complicated texture And why sampling TDK soundtrack. That isn't even by far Zimmer's most representative work. He has done waaaay better in POTC, Inception, Interstellar or Gladiator.

[Goffe]

Apologies, I thought it was all 4 that were done by Klaus Badelt, didn't realise he only did the first one and Zimmer did 2, 3 and 4.

this is from someone who I really trust

 

HZ wrote most of the themes (all the Jack Sparrow themes, the main theme etc...)

 

I know for sure that Klaus wrote the "Underwater March" theme (which is basically from The Road To El Dorado) and the "dark" theme of the film (heard in Fog Bound, with the pan flute "tut, tut, tiiii tut" (lol).

 

Blake Neely wrote the theme in the "Liz on the Pearl / Parlay" sequence. It's not on OST but was on POTC 2's (and 3's) OST.

 

Jim Dooley wrote (with no credit... don't ask lol) the "Tortuga" theme which came back regularly in POTC 2 (he actually ripped it from a short film he had scored a couple of years earlier, Embryo).

it was asked why Badelt gets the top credits and not Hans

2 reasons: 

- He was on The Last Samurai, so not supposed to do anything else.

- When he saves the ass of an RCP colleague, he doesn't get credit (The Rock being an exception).

Edited February 20, 2015 by Goffe

[Goffe]

Comparing Zimmer to Williams is comparing Marylin Manson to Mozart in terms of skills, arrangements, style, instruments usage and musical proficiency.

 

Listen to any Williams action cues, it's mind-boggling complex (time signatures, thematic variations, dynamics changes, modulations, intricate melodies and motifs that dialogue with each others) and lush (full use of symphonic/philarmonic orchestra), Zimmer sounds like David Guetta in comparison. Ask London Symphonic Orchestra to play a Zimmer tune, they'd play that shit paper asleep without even watching the sheets while laughing how pedestrian, simplistic (and not "minimalist") and monotone it is.

 

Two action/battle scene score:

 

Listen to this:

 

 

and then this

 

 

I double dare you to tell me that the second tune is in any way more inventive, more wild, more lush, more melodic, more nuanced, more thrilling musically, as crystal clear (you can hear each section layered and panned at a special place in the whole spectrum around your ears). Any classical musician would be bored out of their mind to play the second tune whereas the first one takes more attention, craft, skill and dedication to play as heard because the writing is more intricate and interesting in terms of arrangements and how melodies are layered and patched thoughout the orchestra. Zimmer is "ALL HORNS PLAY THE LOUD NOTES!", "ALL BRASS PLAY THE SAME LOUD NOTES!" "ALL STRINGS PLAY THE SAME LOOPING NOTES, FORTE!", "LOUD DRUMS!", "WOODWINDS"  ad nauseum.

that's dishonest Dash, you picked one of the worst TDKR tracks

this is a better one

http://youtu.be/KOIzPCy7xz0

 

I'm not saying that Zimmer is better than Williams btw

[dashrendar44]

I'm not someone who's musically trained at all -- and I tend to like Zimmer's music. But there's still no question as to what's more complex and nuanced... and I think Zimmer would probably agree. He doesn't have a formal music education -- he's self-taught and even calls himself "just a rock-n-roller at heart".

 

Danny Elfman is also a total autodidact that didn't take any formal classical training and comes from a rock and roll background as well  but he's umptenth times more inventive and interesting in his glory days (circa 1988 - 2005) than Zimmer at the top of his game. Thanks to his orchestrator and long time Boingo co-member Steve Bartek (and Shirley Walker), Elfman managed to write and score iconic themes arranged for symphonic orchestras that are more akin to Williams organic and dynamic qualities than Zimmer's loudness war sound.

[Dementeleus]

Danny Elfman is also a total autodidact that didn't take any formal classical training and comes from a rock and roll background as well  but he's umptenth times more inventive and interesting in his glory days (circa 1988 - 2005) than Zimmer at the top of his game. Thanks to his orchestrator and long time Boingo co-member Steve Bartek (and Shirley Walker), Elfman managed to write and score iconic themes arranged for symphonic orchestras that are more akin to Williams organic and dynamic qualities than Zimmer's loudness war sound.

 

In other words...

 

RAGE RAGE AGAINST THE ZIMMERING OF THE LIGHT

RAGE RAGE AGAINST THE ZIMMERING OF THE LIGHT

RAGE RAGE AGAINST THE ZIMMERING OF THE LIGHT

RAGE RAGE AGAINST THE ZIMMERING OF THE LIGHT

RAGE RAGE AGAINST THE ZIMMERING OF THE LIGHT

[James]

Dash, it sounds more and more like you have something against Zimmer himself. The man is a genius. End of discussion. If he wouldn't be that good he wouldn't get chosen for so many movies.

 

Also, if you wanna talk intricate soundtracks, let's talk about Shore, that beast Williams all the way.

Edited February 20, 2015 by 69 Shades of James

[Avatree]

Dash, it sounds more and more like you have something against Zimmer himself. The man is a genius. End of discussion. If he wouldn't be that good he wouldn't get chosen for so many movies.

 

Also, if you wanna talk intricate soundtracks, let's talk about Shore, that beast Williams all the way.

That's some strange logic.

 

I guess Michael Bay must be amazing since he's been given so many movies.

[James]

That's some strange logic.

 

I guess Michael Bay must be amazing since he's been given so many movies.

MB is crazy good on the visual side. Only a fool would deny that.

[The Futurist]

I don't know if it s false modesty or not, but Zimmer knows how simple is his music and how he s light years away from guys like Williams, Goldsmith, Newton Howard even Silvestri or Horner.

 

But I like Zimmer, hell, the whole planet does, for better or worst , he totally changed the scoring landscape and directors seem to like him too with already more than 100 scores under his belt.

If I am not mistaken, historically, studios went after him because his scores were the first synthetic symphonic scores ( Goldmith was experimenting this also in Total Recall for example) that didn't recquire an actual orchestra to record the music sheets, which is expensive.

 

And there s this whole Zimmer nebula that he created creating dozens of Zimmer clones that led to a certain absence of melody and lush orchestral arrangements and simplistic main themes that all sound the same for the most part even if there are some occasionnal good themes in some blockbusters.

 

The only recent modern guy who sounds like Lucas/Spielberg golden era is of course Giacchino who basically drinks at the altar of Williams.

[Dementeleus]

The man is a genius. End of discussion. If he wouldn't be that good he wouldn't get chosen for so many movies.

 

Not in the slightest... you only say that because you really like his music. And there's nothing wrong with that. But liking something, even loving it, does not automatically qualify that something as genius.

 

In terms of getting chosen to do plenty of movies, there are many, many reasons why composers are picked.... and not all of them relate to music. Studio comfortability, director compatibility, name recognition, these are all considerations.

[The Futurist]

Danny Elfman is also a total autodidact that didn't take any formal classical training and comes from a rock and roll background as well  but he's umptenth times more inventive and interesting in his glory days (circa 1988 - 2005) than Zimmer at the top of his game. Thanks to his orchestrator and long time Boingo co-member Steve Bartek (and Shirley Walker), Elfman managed to write and score iconic themes arranged for symphonic orchestras that are more akin to Williams organic and dynamic qualities than Zimmer's loudness war sound.

 

Elfman died in 2005, this is Breaking News information to me.

[Dementeleus]

If I am not mistaken, historically, studios went after him because his scores were the first synthetic symphonic scores ( Goldmith was experimenting this also in Total Recall for example)...

 

In terms of popularizing synthetic scores, Vangelis, Tangerine Dream, and even John Carpenter are ahead of Zimmer on that front.

[The Futurist]

Not in the slightest... you only say that because you really like his music. And there's nothing wrong with that. But liking something, even loving it, does not automatically qualify that something as genius.

 

In terms of getting chosen to do plenty of movies, there are many, many reasons why composers are picked.... and not all of them relate to music. Studio comfortability, director compatibility, name recognition, these are all considerations.

 

The problem these days is that everything is Zimmerized.

And the Bwwwwwwhaaaaaaammmmm from Inception accentuated his influence.

Every blockbuster trailer since 2010 has Bwwwwwwhaaaaaaammmmms in it, it has become tiresome and trite.

Edited February 20, 2015 by A Grey Future

[Dementeleus]

Whaddya guys say we split this discussion into its own thread? It's interesting enough to continue without ruining poor James' countdown.

[The Futurist]

In terms of popularizing synthetic scores, Vangelis, Tangerine Dream, and even John Carpenter are ahead of Zimmer on that front.

 

Yeah but I think was Zimmer said to the studios was, I will do a score for you that sounds big and epic and orchestral that doesn't sound fake or synthetic but doesn't need an orchestra to exist.

[dashrendar44]

In terms of popularizing synthetic scores, Vangelis, Tangerine Dream, and even John Carpenter are ahead of Zimmer on that front.

 

Wendy Carlos!