The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power | Amazon | September 2, 2022

[Liiviig 1998]

28 minutes ago, Valonqar said:

Nah, her IQ was already in the toilet when she jumped off the ship intending to swim across the whole sea lol, when she decided to make Halbrand a King just because she wanted to get into his pants he had a cool crest on him

Nah the whole plot lost IQ points because they needed to get galadriel to halbrand and then to numenor . That whole section is just contrived.

 

As in for the case  of trying to get in his pants . Nah 

 Just wanted to make her vulnerable in order for sauron to manipulate and was okay with that as long as they didn't bone. But this episode destroyed it  and just made galadriel stupid and sauron lucky instead of cunning.

 

The problems with sauron didn't originate in this episode ,they have been lots of contrivances and inconsistencies along the way but was willing to let them slide as long as sauron got to doing his thing. 

 

Had a smile on my face when halbrand introduced himself to celembribor ,finally let's get going but by the end  was like urgh...

 

Like the show is called rings of power and you choose to write you main premise like this!!!.

 

 

[Valonqar]

@Liiviig 1998 The whole show is so contrived. Like, why do they have to complicate everything? Galadriel tells her private eye to do some background check on Southland lineage and that should be enough. But nooo, he has to say I will have to go to catacombs! Who cares? It isn't like we are going to see them, right? That sums up the show.

 

 

28 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

 

It is impressive how JJ Abrams and his Bad Robot alumni manage to slither their way into so many nerd IPs / franchises.  I can't stand their brand of storytelling where characters are usually defined by 1 trait and the plots are driven by MacGuffins, boring uninteresting mystery boxes, and too many coincidences rather than the motivations of the characters and their actions.  Its a way of writing that doesn't actually require sufficient plot or character motivation.  Abrams and his copycats are the worst thing thats happened to Hollywood this century.[/quote]

 

 Amen. I can't wait to see their empire of evil crumble like Barad Dur. Truly the nadir of film-making.

 

 

28 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

 

 

The Hobbit was a very messy and bloated affair but at least you got some good characters/actors like Gandalf, Bilbo, Thorin, Smaug, and yes Tauriel minus the dumb love triangle shit.  And Lee Pace's Elf might just be the best.  Theres also a lot of really good Howard Shore music in those movies.

 

Music especially in the first movie is fantastic. Though I do have a soft spot for some ROP themes (opening credits, Galadiel, Halbrand, Khazad Dum) but yes Hobbit is superior, Also, I wouldn't mind romance if they didn't drag Legolas into it for no reason whatsoever. I don't even know why they thought it was important for us to know that Legolas got jilted 60 years prior to LOTR?

Edited October 16, 2022 by Valonqar

[Factcheck]

Halbrand adviced Celebrimbor to make rings & Galadriel knew this but when she came to know that Halbrand is Sauron & when Halbrand said her that they are going to make 2 rings she definitely sensed evil in his plan. So she adviced Elrond to make 3 rings instead of 2 rings, because 1 will corrupt 2 will divide but with 3 there will be Balance. So to say that she was stupid to carry on with rings plan after knowing Halbrand's true identity is totally wrong because no one could have imagined Sauron's actual evil plan which was to control all other rings of power through 1 super ring.

[FilmFincher]

I very much enjoyed my time with this show. 

A few quibbles and some awkward moments scattered throughout for sure. 

But it was cinematic, I liked all the storylines and was happy with the pace. Galadriel is amazing and I live for the Durin/Elrond friendship. 

It's hopeful and wears it's heart on it's sleeve in a way that reminds me what I love from the movies. 

The long wait for season 2 is the only thing annoying me at the moment. 

[Hatebox]

I watched Fellowship straight after the last episode of this and I must say, as palette cleansers go it was like slipping into a warm bath after wading through sewage. 
 

Perhaps it’s unfair to compare this to Jackson’s trilogy given that’s had 20 years to ferment its nostalgia, but RoP is clearly trading off the films’ popularity so really it’s not.

 

 

Edited October 16, 2022 by Hatebox

[Brainbug]

42 minutes ago, Hatebox said:

I watched Fellowship straight after the last episode of this and I must say, as palette cleansers go it was like slipping into a warm bath after wading through sewage. 
 

Perhaps it’s unfair to compare this to Jackson’s trilogy given that’s had 20 years to ferment its nostalgia, but RoP is clearly trading off the films’ popularity so really it’s not.

 

 

 

I think the comparison is fair since both the movies and this show are adaptions of Tolkiens world and works. Thing is just that one adaption is a masterpiece and the other is a mediocre fantasy timefiller.

[MikeQ]

8 hours ago, 4815162342 said:

The problem is that they rushed to Sauron and the result was that he basically bounced around from place to place with no plan and just stirring up shit a little. It really goes against the core of Sauron which is that the dude from the second he refused Eonwe's decree that he had to return to Valinor to face the judgment of the Valar was making a plan to give himself absolute power in Middle Earth so no one would have the right to judge him. His entire MO was manipulating others into either giving him the tools he needed, or leading them astray into causing their own downfalls. To do this, in part, he assumes the form of someone utterly trustworthy and helpful.

 

How Sauron should have been handled is that

  Reveal hidden contents

he honestly should not have been revealed at all in Season 1.  The big Sauron twist should not have been that he was say one person, but that multiple characters in the show in different places and different times are all Sauron, manipulating different people for different things.

 

He could have appeared in the Southlands as say an Orc, or human who follows the ways of Morgoth, or another early Uruk, for the purpose of manipulating/guiding Adar into creating Mordor so that Adar, thinking he is creating a free home for Uruks to self-determinate, is actually building the necessary home base for Sauron.

 

He could have appeared in Eregion as an Elf from across the mountains or even a different Maiar to gain the counsel and trust of Celebrimbor and slowly make Celebrimbor dependent upon his advice for creating things, and using this position to learn from Celebrimbor the missing knowledge/insight he would need to make the One Ring.

 

You could have him posing as a Dwarf in Khazad-dum who counsels Young Durin to overthrow Old Durin so as to push the Dwarves into a more industrious and grasping direction, which leads them into accepting the Seven Rings.

 

Etc. As for how you handle him doing all these things at once, Sauron in the canon prior to the end of the Second Age could assume any form he wanted, and has assumed in the Silmarillion the form of fast flying animals, so if Galadriel could ride from the border of Mordor to Eregion in six days, Flying Sauron could do that in much less.

 

You fix the goddamn stupid Elves are dying plot by having it all be a giant manipulation. No evidence in the show is given that the Elves are losing their immortality other than a single tree dying, which is enough to scare the shit out of Gil-Galad and everyone takes it as gospel. You fix this, by having the tree dying not because of some unexplained random mumbo-jumbo, but because it is being poisoned (either by Sauron or an agent of his) and Sauron uses this to stoke the fear of dying in Elves to push them into supporting Celebrimbor's work.

 

You don't have him spend 90% of the season hanging out side by side with Galadriel because the canon is clear that while she did not know he was Sauron, she did not buy the shit Annatar was selling and eventually Gil-Galad and others don't as well. As others have said, Galadriel at times is done very dirty by this.

 

I also think Halbrand works far better as a tragic hero who ultimately takes one of the Ning Human Rings out of a desire to obtain the power necessary to protect his people from the rise of Mordor, and in so doing seals his fate, and makes the relationship between him and Galadriel less haha you dummy you were fooled to a sad regret that she could not save him when it mattered most.

 

But you lay all of these pieces in Season 1 and the big reveal at the close of Season 2 is that all of these elements have played into Sauron's hands, and now he has the home base he needs, he has legions of orcs assembled for him by another, he has gotten other races to enter the trap of the Rings, and now he can reveal himself and press his attack on Middle Earth.

 

Well stated - I agree with this, and it touches on much of what didn't work for me in the finale. This would have been a more compelling way of establishing Sauron.

 

Spoiler

This would have helped with the things you mentioned - and also, from my perspective, would make Gil-Galad a more understandable character up to this point, if he was being manipulated from early on. Much of his character development/personality this season has me wondering how he ever gets to the point of being the elf who makes the sacrifices he does with the Last Alliance.

Ultimately, all we got from the unearned Halbrand-is-Sauron conclusion are the three elven rings. And the development of these rings felt rushed (essentially a one episode endeavour). I'm not a huge fan of how this played out - but it would have worked better if Sauron was still in a form unknown to others and we could see this continue to play out in season 2 with the remaining rings.

My biggest disappointment is the lost potential in the character of Halbrand - whose development before the finale (as a man/king trying to do good) was leading really nicely to him being a tragic figure who falls to the power of the ring and becomes the Witch-King (or one of the Nazgûl). This would have been earned, and far more compelling, as you mention.

 

Peace,

Mike

[MikeQ]

Edit: Nevermind - don’t want to harp on things too much.

 

Peace,

Mike

Edited October 17, 2022 by MikeQ

[cookieleeann]

Idk, I didn't hate it. I actually enjoyed the first season. Right now I give it a solid 7 but hopefully they work out some of the kinks by next season. The biggest problem I have with the show is something was stopping me from connecting to the characters the way I connected to the characters in Fellowship. I did enjoy some of the characters but I think the only thing I'm looking forward to is the rest of  Sauron's arc for now.

[cookieleeann]

While I do think the actors who play Galadriel and Halbrand have really great chemistry, some of their scenes straight up reminded me of Reylo. No wonder the ao3 fanfics of them exploded after episode 8 lmao. I honestly would not have mind if they did bone. Maybe it would've brought even more buzz to the show? Because for some reason this thing has a very low social media presence. Maybe a little bit of chaos would've did the job idk lol

[Ozymandias]

Previously, on Charmed:

 

 

[Hatebox]

So in the wake of this I rewatched the Jackson trilogy and, hot take, Return of the King... isn't that good. Fellowship and Towers remain masterclasses in story adaptation and wringing emotion while maintaining narrative efficiency, but Return surrenders completely to CGI action in a way the other two are actually really good at avoiding, and too many characters have too little to do.

 

It's still enjoyable, it functions mechanically scene to scene, but in the macro... something's missing. I'd like to read a good deep-dive on that because the consensus that it's the best entry is still pretty prevalent I think.

[Liiviig 1998]

25 minutes ago, Hatebox said:

So in the wake of this I rewatched the Jackson trilogy and, hot take, Return of the King... isn't that good. Fellowship and Towers remain masterclasses in story adaptation and wringing emotion while maintaining narrative efficiency, but Return surrenders completely to CGI action in a way the other two are actually really good at avoiding, and too many characters have too little to do.

 

It's still enjoyable, it functions mechanically scene to scene, but in the macro... something's missing. I'd like to read a good deep-dive on that because the consensus that it's the best entry is still pretty prevalent I think.

Did you watch the extended version of return of the king bse it's better than the theatrical , the ending overstays it's welcome though 

 

 In terms of writing, I do agree it's the weakest .

 

Don't think it sacrifices to action as you say . Look at it as a giant third act to the whole trilogy. It payoffs what has been set up in the previous films .

 

Things I didn't like was denithor character and treatment.

And the army of the dead getting involved in the battle at ministirith . Their involvement should have ended at the ships.

[Hatebox]

I watched the extended editions a long time ago. There's some good-ish stuff in there but I ultimately agree with Jackson: the theatrical versions are the definitive ones and should be judged accordingly.

 

I think after a decade of SH movies I just have a much stronger aversion to huge CGI battles and RoK often feels like a never-ending series of them. It's notable that I don't have the same problem with Helm's Deep, though.

[Torontofan]

3 hours ago, Hatebox said:

So in the wake of this I rewatched the Jackson trilogy and, hot take, Return of the King... isn't that good. Fellowship and Towers remain masterclasses in story adaptation and wringing emotion while maintaining narrative efficiency, but Return surrenders completely to CGI action in a way the other two are actually really good at avoiding, and too many characters have too little to do.

 

It's still enjoyable, it functions mechanically scene to scene, but in the macro... something's missing. I'd like to read a good deep-dive on that because the consensus that it's the best entry is still pretty prevalent I think.

 

Return of the King is like Return of the Jedi a bit.

 

it has some of the best scenes in all of LOTR but i find the films ending goes on too long. 

 

I think one thing Return of the King does well compared to many action heavy mega blockbusters is that even though its a huge action CGI stuff going on you are deeply emotionally invested.

 

Charge of the Riders of Rohan and the Charge of the Haradium are some of the best battle scenes even today.

Each time Theoden charges with the riders of Rohan I shed a small tear 

 

Edited October 20, 2022 by Torontofan

[Brainbug]

Return of the King is the most epic of all the three.

 

Two Towers is cursed with beeing the middle chapter despite beeing amazing all the way through.

 

Fellowship is the best one and probably shoud be in consideration of the best movies ever made.

[Torontofan]

Fellowship is best fantasy movie ever imo.

 

Really captures the Tolkien world best I find. 

[Ozymandias]

Comparing ROTK to ROTJ is fucking nuts.

 

And I never understood some people's problems with the 'multiple endings'.  Its definitely earned after the 9+ hours we've spent with all the characters, all of which we love.  I can understand not watching the last 30 minutes on every repeat viewing, but not to include things like Aragorn's coronation or the masterful Grey Havens scene would've been insane... especially for the book readers.  In hindsight, I appreciate ROTK's denouement even more in this era of increasingly short attention spans and factory film-making. 

 

The Lord of the Rings trilogy as it is simply could not be made today, which is kinda scary.

 

3 hours ago, Hatebox said:

I watched the extended editions a long time ago. There's some good-ish stuff in there but I ultimately agree with Jackson: the theatrical versions are the definitive ones and should be judged accordingly.

 

I think after a decade of SH movies I just have a much stronger aversion to huge CGI battles and RoK often feels like a never-ending series of them. It's notable that I don't have the same problem with Helm's Deep, though.

 

The extended editions of FOTR and TTT are superior editions of already perfect films imo, pretty much all the added scenes in those are great character stuff.  My ideal cut of ROTK would be the theatrical version with a number of scenes I definitely would've left in like the Houses of Healing, the Eowyn/Faramir stuff, and everything with Frodo/Sam between Cirith Ungol and Mt. Doom.  Maybe even the Saruman scene even though it kinda disrupts the pacing.

[Torontofan]

I do agree the extended edition of ROTK gets a bit tedious while for the other two it makes them into much better films. 

[James]

Nah, I don’t get how anyone could prefer the theatrical versions. I recently rewatched the theatrical cut if FOTR afer many years if watching the extended one and it feels chopped up and rushed.