The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power | Amazon | September 2, 2022

[Elessar]

2 hours ago, Daxtreme said:

Those who are more familiar with the lore and the 2nd age, is it possible we get a Balrog appearing somewhere in this series or does the timeline make it impossible?

 

Balrogs were in the service of the big baddy Morgoth in the 1st age. There are no recordings of Balrogs in the 2nd age but i guess it would not be entirely impossible that some would turn up because it is said that Sauron gathered "all the evil things of the days of Morgoth that remained on earth and beneath it". (the wiki helped me out here lol)

[Ozymandias]

These are the first images of the show that I've seen that have made me go "Ok yeah, that looks fucking awesome"

 

 

[Porthos]

Every time I start to think that SW fandom is the nadir of toxicity...

 

 

I get reminded that LOTR fandom exists. 

 

...

 

Wait.  I'm also in LOTR fandom (though not nearly as much as I once was).

 

Well... fuck. 😕

[Daxtreme]

I have some concerns over the way they're handling things in this show but female orcs is a problem since WHEN?

 

wtf is wrong with people

[ZeeSoh]

2 hours ago, Porthos said:

Every time I start to think that SW fandom is the nadir of toxicity...

 

 

I get reminded that LOTR fandom exists. 

 

...

 

Wait.  I'm also in LOTR fandom (though not nearly as much as I once was).

 

Well... fuck. 😕

This is strange because female orcs are canon in Tolkiens world. Though they are not explicitly mentioned within the books it is alluded that they exist by the fact that it says in the Silmarillion that orcs multiple in the same way that the Children of Illúvatar do (meaning sexual reproduction). 
 

Tolkien himself also said orc women must exist in one of his letters. 
 

Any true fan of LoTR would not be upset by this. If they are then they are either not true fans or bigots. 

[Porthos]

6 minutes ago, ZeeSoh said:

This is strange because female orcs are canon in Tolkiens world. Though they are not explicitly mentioned within the books it is alluded that they exist by the fact it says that orcs multiple in the same way that the Children of Illúvatar (meaning sexual reproduction). 
 

Tolkien himself also said orc women must exist in one of his letters. 
 

Any true fan of LoTR would not be upset by this. If they are then they are either not true fans or bigots. 

 

I mean, do you really want me to comment on that? 

 

===

 

But, being serious for a moment, my overall comment was more... While there is a serious Gamer Gate style problem with a subsection of SW fandom (the so-called Fandom Menace and related hanger-ons), there is, unfortunately, a much worse subset of LOTR fans out there.  I have my theories as to what attracts these Very Fine Fellows, but I think we're kidding ourselves if we don't think they exist.

 

And given how... uneven the Amazon Prime LotR show might end up being [and I hope I'm wrong here]... Well, not exactly looking forward to these folks running amok.

 

...

 

Okay, mostly I was just laughing at getting reminded that SW fandom has it "easy" in comparison to some fandoms.

[ZeeSoh]

8 minutes ago, Porthos said:

 

I mean, do you really want me to comment on that? 

 

===

 

But, being serious for a moment, my overall comment was more... While there is a serious Gamer Gate style problem with a subsection of SW fandom (the so-called Fandom Menace and related hanger-ons), there is, unfortunately, a much worse subset of LOTR fans out there.  I have my theories as to what attracts these Very Fine Fellows, but I think we're kidding ourselves if we don't think they exist.

 

And given how... uneven the Amazon Prime LotR show might end up being [and I hope I'm wrong here]... Well, not exactly looking forward to these folks running amok.

 

...

 

Okay, mostly I was just laughing at getting reminded that SW fandom has it "easy" in comparison to some fandoms.

Oh mate, SW still holds the crown. And it won’t lose it until another fandom comes up with something even better (or worse?) than r/saltierthancrait 😂

I still remember the collective meltdown over rey sue. 
 

On a serious note, these fans exist in every fandom unfortunately. 

[Ozymandias]

13 minutes ago, Porthos said:

I mean, do you really want me to comment on that? 

 

yes

[Porthos]

Just now, ZeeSoh said:

Oh mate, SW still holds the crown. And it won’t lose it until another fandom comes up with something even better (or worse?) than r/saltierthancrait 😂

 

 

Well, we gots five years to see what LOTR 'fans' can bring to the table, so don't count them out yet! 

1 minute ago, ZeeSoh said:

On a serious note, these fans exist in every fandom unfortunately. 

 

True true.  Just... let me have my humor where I can find it, alright? 😛 

[ZeeSoh]

9 minutes ago, Porthos said:

 

Well, we gots five years to see what LOTR 'fans' can bring to the table, so don't count them out yet! 

 

True true.  Just... let me have my humor where I can find it, alright? 😛 

Oh dont worry at least when the sequel trilogy was announced and when the trailers dropped (and heck even after TFA’s release) people were hella excited and happy. Sure there were detractors then too but they were overwhelmingly drowned out by fans who were supportive. 
 

But with this show, right out the gate this has divided people. And it will be mayhem when it actually releases. Because the problem here is not that the bigots are pissed, its that a lot of genuine fans of LoTR are also either unhappy with how it looks or are meh about it. I am a huge fan, have read all the books multiple times (except the 12 volume History of Middle-Earth) and even I am not excited for this whatsoever. 
 

I only hope that the show is actually good so that it can win back the fans and prove the detractors wrong. 

[Porthos]

2 minutes ago, ZeeSoh said:

And it will be mayhem when it actually releases. Because the problem here is not that the bigots are pissed, its that a lot of genuine fans of LoTR are also either unhappy with how it looks or are meh about it. I am a huge fan, have read all the books multiple times (except the 12 volume History of Middle-Earth) and even I am not excited for this whatsoever.

 

Well, I think it's intertwined.  Speaking as a vet of the wars in SW fandom (among others), when people are unhappy/meh, it gives folks fertile feeding grounds to grow and spread their toxic messages.  So, yes, it'll only matter/take root if/because folks are unhappy. But it's still something of a symbiotic relationship where one feeds the other.

 

===

 

Pivoting to the "not excited whatsoever" point you're making:

 

The thing that I'm still trying to get my head around is... since they don't have rights to The Silmarillion, or things like that, just what are they gonna get five years worth of stories out of?  I mean, I know what they've said, but you know as well as I do how... fussy some fans can be when it comes to "new" in the world of Tolkien (from what I understand even Christopher Tolkien couldn't escape that with some of the posthumous material released). 

 

If it doesn't pass a really high bar (perhaps impossibly high bar)... 

 

I mean, can LotR Prime afford to be "merely good"?  I would hope so, but some of the conversation surrounding this project is giving me major flashbacks.

 

I suppose personally I'm enough of a LotR fan to plan to watch this but not have such high expectations that if it's "merely good" then I can live with it and not get upset, if that makes sense.  

[ZeeSoh]

52 minutes ago, Porthos said:

Pivoting to the "not excited whatsoever" point you're making:

 

The thing that I'm still trying to get my head around is... since they don't have rights to The Silmarillion, or things like that, just what are they gonna get five years worth of stories out of?  I mean, I know what they've said, but you know as well as I do how... fussy some fans can be when it comes to "new" in the world of Tolkien (from what I understand even Christopher Tolkien couldn't escape that with some of the posthumous material released). 

 

 

I suppose personally I'm enough of a LotR fan to plan to watch this but not have such high expectations that if it's "merely good" then I can live with it and not get upset, if that makes sense.  

The 2nd age spans more than 3400 years so technically there is enough there for a long story. Problem is the events are in appendix form so they will have to create pretty much a whole new story. Another problem is that the events are spread over thousands of years. Casting elves would not be a problem since they are immortal but humans would have been problematic. They could have done like an anthology type series with each season focusing on one set of events but instead they have opted to destroy the lore and condense everything into a few years. Its a big part why genuine fans are upset and you will see a lot of complaining about how the show is deviating from the books during the run itself. Peter Jacksons movies stuck closely to the book for the most part but even then got a lot of criticism from the fandom for deviations

[dudalb]

On 6/22/2022 at 3:22 PM, Porthos said:

Every time I start to think that SW fandom is the nadir of toxicity...

 

 

I get reminded that LOTR fandom exists. 

 

...

 

Wait.  I'm also in LOTR fandom (though not nearly as much as I once was).

 

Well... fuck. 😕

You are probably too young to remember all the crap that went on with the hard core purist Tolkien fans before FOTR opened. It got very bizzare, as Tele can join me in testifying about.

That is think about Tolkien Fandom: it has been around since the late 1960's, when LOTR first caught on.

What is wierd is that Tolkien never gets into how Orcs reproduce. The original Orcs were  captured Elves who were twisted and corrupted by Morgoth into their present forms, but how they reproduce was never specified.

I will probalby end up watching this despite my skepticism about a spinoff from Tolkien's work...since I have Amazon Prime anyway.My  shipping and Kindle content discounts more then pay for my Amazon Prime free, so I am pretty much getting this for free.

 

[dudalb]

On 6/22/2022 at 6:15 PM, ZeeSoh said:

The 2nd age spans more than 3400 years so technically there is enough there for a long story. Problem is the events are in appendix form so they will have to create pretty much a whole new story. Another problem is that the events are spread over thousands of years. Casting elves would not be a problem since they are immortal but humans would have been problematic. They could have done like an anthology type series with each season focusing on one set of events but instead they have opted to destroy the lore and condense everything into a few years. Its a big part why genuine fans are upset and you will see a lot of complaining about how the show is deviating from the books during the run itself. Peter Jacksons movies stuck closely to the book for the most part but even then got a lot of criticism from the fandom for deviations

The LOTR film stuck fairly close to the books; but he took a LOT of Liberties with the Hobbit films, and  a lot of it was pretty much pulled from his butt, and some of the radical changes he made from the novel worked poorly.

You are right that the Appendixes for the most part are just a outline of the history of Middle Earth,and any new story would be pretty much a creation not of Tolkien but the screen writers.  Too bad the Tolkien estate is still refusing to sell the rights to the Simalarrion, since the Fall of Numenor in the Second age would make a great movie/miniseries.

[dudalb]

On 6/19/2022 at 2:47 PM, Elessar said:

 

Balrogs were in the service of the big baddy Morgoth in the 1st age. There are no recordings of Balrogs in the 2nd age but i guess it would not be entirely impossible that some would turn up because it is said that Sauron gathered "all the evil things of the days of Morgoth that remained on earth and beneath it". (the wiki helped me out here lol)

Balrogs were fallen Valar; basically the angelic creatures in Tolkien worlds;quite literally fallen and corrupted angels.

That is why in LOTR Gandalf, who is a Valar who has taken human form tells the fellowship at the Bridge of Khazad Dum the Balrog is a foe beyond them.

Btw the Wiki are OK< but the actual books are better.

[ZeeSoh]

2 minutes ago, dudalb said:

Balrogs were fallen Valar; basically the angelic creatures in Tolkien worlds;quite literally fallen and corrupted angels.

That is why in LOTR Gandalf, who is a Valar who has taken human form tells the fellowship at the Bridge of Khazad Dum the Balrog is a foe beyond them.

Btw the Wiki are OK< but the actual books are better.

Neither the balrogs or Gandalf were Valar. They were Maiar (or Ainur in general). 

[Porthos]

47 minutes ago, dudalb said:

You are probably too young to remember all the crap that went on with the hard core purist Tolkien fans before FOTR opened.

 

 

(thanks, I needed a laugh today)

[Elessar]

Another teaser that teases another teaser on the 14th of July (on the Rings of Power Amazon Prime Video page it's in better quality, little sharper). Hopefully a meaty trailer during Comic-Con. Maybe the one on the 14th is a proper trailer but i've heard it's not. Time will tell...

 

 

 

First thing that comes to mind is, it - again, despite spending the world - has that squeeky clean TV look. It's obvisouly not a budget thing. Dunno why filmmakers seem to be okay with that look. Oh, well, probably when watching the whole thing it wont stand out as much...

 

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Elessar

[Ozymandias]

Another 1 minute teaser for another teaser in a week?  Are you kidding me? 

 

We're less than 2 months out now and we've gotten no trailer with any dialogue or characterization.

[Eric Duncan]