***SPOILERS***SPOILERS***BLACK PANTHER SPOILER THREAD***SPOILERS***SPOILERS***

[Harpospoke]

On 2/18/2018 at 1:00 PM, Jandrew said:

Here you go, from January 13th:

 

Shouldnt be surprised that America is dumb enough to give Paddington only $2.4, look at out current state.

 

At the same time it is disappointing that we still have a hard time breaking out and embracing things that arent American. Hell Despacito didnt break out until they slapped  Americanly-marketable Bieber on it after all.

 

Don't really see how you can get triggered and infer I'm talking about Trump in that post. I never elaborated on what exactly I meant, you just got triggered and assumed I was referring to Trump because you were sniffing for politics, just like I said. You don't fool anybody.

 

You on the other hand do "fool somebody" because you are fooling yourself.

You "don't really see" because you agree with your politics.   

 

Ok...explain what you mean by "current state".   What does that have to do with the movie?   Not about Trump?  

 

Explain how your xenophobic attack on an entire country for not supporting your movie isn't politics?    That's the worst kind of politics.   You actually somehow saw box office numbers and translated that in your brain somehow to an entire country of people being "dumb".   Yeah...that happened.    

On 2/18/2018 at 1:00 PM, Jandrew said:

Yet, I like the fact that you ignore the rest of my post and instead get triggered and resort to calling me an SJW and say I have "tirades." Whatever that is supposed to mean. Anyone that knows me will tell you I'm not close to being one.

 

You still won't say exactly what you mean by that though, so I can only assume you're calling me an SJW because I said this movie is important for black people, and that triggers you.

Well of course you would assume things.   That's what SJWs do.   They often claim to have mind reading skills.

 

I on the other hand know what "important" means.   It's about race and race only.   It about the color of the skin of the cast and director and that only.   It has nothing to do with the movie itself.   You actually believe that everyone else should be eager to talk about race first and if not ...they are "triggered".

 

It's called apathy to your politics.   I'm more interested in the character, the MCU, and the movie itself.    In no instance that you get upset about did I bring up politics first.

 

On 2/18/2018 at 1:00 PM, Jandrew said:

And you still won't say exactly what you mean by "important narrative infecting the movie", so I can only assume you're saying this movie shouldn't be celebrated as pro-black/pro-African art that is very important to the black community, because we shouldn't be mixing in race with entertainment, because that triggers you.

Is this you not talking about politics again?   Yeah...I see no valid reason to make a movie political.    And you certainly can't force people to accept your politics while claiming you aren't talking about politics.

 

On 2/18/2018 at 1:00 PM, Jandrew said:

You won't even take the time to actually understand what any of us even mean and why we see this movie as valuable. You see "black people" and "this movie" in the same sentence and automatically go into triggered level 2000. The only reason the movie didn't trigger you further was because they didn't give you a 2 hour lesson on white guilt.

More politics that of course you claim you aren't talking about.

On 2/18/2018 at 1:00 PM, Jandrew said:

You're awful dude, and dangerously myopic. And you're a hypocrite. My review mentions nothing about politics, but yours does. I say "great acting, great soundtrack, powerful movie", and you say "don't worry, the politics aren't heavy yall." Sounds like you were relieved to not be triggered.

Yes it was a relief to discover that the SJW politics were not present in the movie.   That's nothing to be ashamed of despite your inference here.   SLW politics are toxic and divisive.   SLWs typically speak to people exactly like you did here.   Pretty much political bullies.   Not that I mind.  I find it revealing.

 

And since politics have been brought up...by other people...throughout this thread it was certainly relevant to point out it's not really there in this movie.   If we are going to get into mind reading maybe I should try it too.  I think it bothered you that the movie didn't bother me.  

On 2/18/2018 at 1:00 PM, Jandrew said:

I'm quite respected around here and I don't think anyone else sees me as some radical militant, so maybe it's your act that you should reflect on.

The argumentum ad populum fallacy means nothing to me.   Just another logical fallacy that SLWs often resort to.    A SLW is "respected" by other SJWs?   Well isn't that surprising!

[Deja23]

Anyone else pick up on the fact that the narration in the beginning of the movie was Killmonger and his father? Apparently the producer, Nate Moore, confirmed it. I thought it was T’Challa and T’Chaka for some reason but thinking back, it definitely works as N’Jobu and his son.

[Jandrew]

Spoiler

 

I'm done with the Paddington nonsense. That was literally over a month ago, let it go. Also I'm not xenophobic, nor can I be. The definition of xenophobia is "fear or attack against other countries." My post was directed at Americans, and if it hasn't been clear by now...I'm an American. "Dumb" is a kindergarten playground word, but you are still triggered about it.

 

Also, the only reason I have assumed things is because you wouldn't say exactly what you mean. I've never said the director had to be black or said that race was the #1 aspect concerning this movie. Ever. All I've ever said about this movie that's tied into race was "this is an important landmark movie for black people." I've never said "black people only", or "black lives matter!", which is what you keep interpreting and spinning it as.

 

Pretty sure my showing was more white than black, and I didn't care, I was just happy people were here to see the movie, but you must think I stood up and shouted "whitey go home!" right?

 

You keep making broad accusations about people, which pisses me off the most, they ask you what you mean, you won't answer it, they tell what they think you mean, you accuse them of talking about politics and being an SJW. Got it. Hell, you still haven't said exactly what you've meant by "politics" or "SJW." It's almost like you're afraid to considering I've had to ask the same question repeatedly. My review didn't mention politics, unlike yours.

 

Whatever dude. Saying this is a landmark movie for black children is not politics. What is politics are:

 

- the people who haven't seen it trolling the movie with 1 star reviews

- the people who complain that this is called "Black Panther" because it reminds them of the 1960's Black Panthers.

- the people claiming they have been attacked at showings to stir up division.

- the people who have been kicked out of screenings for being derogatory

- the people who think the movie is just some liberal BLM agenda

- the people who think it only has glowing reviews because of race

- the people making Trump comparisons

- the people calling the movie racist with no basis

 

This isn't a "black peoples movie", this is a movie that is a worldwide phenomenon.  

 

If that's being an SJW than whatever. This is exhausting and I really could care less of your opinion of me. You throw obtuse, ambiguous points back and forth like monkey in the middle and try to paint yourself as the victim...Hm. You're the only one upset so I'll let you have it.

 

 

 

 

 

@Harpospoke

Edited February 21, 2018 by Jandrew

[Jandrew]

1 hour ago, Deja23 said:

Anyone else pick up on the fact that the narration in the beginning of the movie was Killmonger and his father? Apparently the producer, Nate Moore, confirmed it. I thought it was T’Challa and T’Chaka for some reason but thinking back, it definitely works as N’Jobu and his son.

Yeah, after Killmonger's ancestral plane scene with N'Jobu, I realized the beginning scene was actually Sterling K Brown's voice.

 

Also so N'Jobu is basically stuck in "Hell", aka that apartment right? He can't get out? If so what a shame.

 

Edited February 21, 2018 by Jandrew

[Sam]

Repeating and shouting the word SJWs over and over at people who don’t agree with you, as if it’s an insult and shameful title that should immediately invalidate their arguments is what baffles me most.

 

Such act said nothing and provide nothing to counteract the so-called SJW people’s points that you argue against. But it showed all about your myopic, small-minded, and lack of confidence/belief in your own POV.  

Edited February 21, 2018 by Sam

[Deja23]

8 minutes ago, Jandrew said:

Yeah, after Killmonger's ancestral plane scene with N'Jobu, I realized the beginning scene was actually Sterling K Brown's voice.

 

Also so N'Jobu is basically stuck in "Hell", aka that apartment right? He can't get out? If so what a shame.

 

Yeah, besides Killmonger’s death scene, that apartment scene is the most depressing part of the movie for me. Outside the window, you can see it has the colors of the place T’Challa met his father. I’ll have to verify when I see it again, but that means N’Jobu can see his family members/ancestors out there, but can’t ever join them. 

[Jandrew]

What a shame, yet TChaka gets to chill on the plains. Makes you feel for Killmonger even more.

[Orestes]

50 minutes ago, Jandrew said:

Yeah, after Killmonger's ancestral plane scene with N'Jobu, I realized the beginning scene was actually Sterling K Brown's voice.

 

Also so N'Jobu is basically stuck in "Hell", aka that apartment right? He can't get out? If so what a shame.

 

I think it was more that Killmonger was stuck in that apartment, not his father.

[grey ghost]

 

4 kinds of black people: 

 

1) Pro-establishment blacks who help civil rights
2) Pro-establishment blacks who hurt civil rights
3) Anti-establishment blacks who help civil rights
4) Anti-establishment blacks who hurt civil rights

 

Killmonger symbolizes 3 and 4 in an idealized way.

 

Black Panther is 1 also idealized.

 

Maybe they'll address #2 in BP2.

 

 

 

 

[grey ghost]

Anyone who thinks the CIA is always pure good or pure evil should watch The Good Shepherd with Matt Damon.

 

The game is never that basic.

 

Never was, never will be.

[aabattery]

Some interesting stuff in this interview with Winston Duke.

Quote

This doesn’t exactly fit, but I thought a little bit of the Amish. The Jabari have a separate, traditional culture within a modern one. But then, the Jabari don’t lack technology.
Yeah, they’re not against technology. They’re against Vibranium. Their society is based around Jabari wood.

That’s what we see decorating M’Baku’s throne room. 
Yeah, this is something we didn’t get to interrogate deeply in the film, but everything for them is based around this Jabari wood that comes from this sacred tree. Everything in Jabari land is made out of this sacred wood that can essentially go toe-to-toe with a Vibranium sword or a Vibranium weapon because it’s this tempered, strong, treated wood.

But it has its own mythology…
They believe it was given to them by Hanuman, the ape god. Meanwhile, the people of Wakanda will say, “No, it’s actually the Vibranium that’s seeped into the wood. That makes it stronger.” [Laughs] You have this whole divergence of ideas. They’re quite technologically sophisticated but it’s based around wood. Meanwhile, Wakanda proper is technologically advanced based around Vibranium. That’s kind of where they get separated, but it’s still the same house.

 

[grey ghost]

Half the movie is optimistic:

 

 

The other half is this...

 

 

 

It's a complicated movie. 

[MrGlass2]

The problem with Killmonger is that the movie doesn't know if he is supposed to be a tragic anti-hero or a villain. I am sure a lot of kids will look up to him because his struggle is romanticized in the end. But at the same time because the movie is called Black Panther and not Killmonger, they have him commit horrible acts of violence (especially against women) and he is never really held accountable for it.

[grey ghost]

33 minutes ago, MrGlass2 said:

The problem with Killmonger is that the movie doesn't know if he is supposed to be a tragic anti-hero or a villain. I am sure a lot of kids will look up to him because his struggle is romanticized in the end. But at the same time because the movie is called Black Panther and not Killmonger, they have him commit horrible acts of violence (especially against women) and he is never really held accountable for it.

Because the world isn't black and white.

 

 

If you make the militant black nationalist pure evil you're villifying heroes of the black community from the 60's like Black Panthers and Malcolm X. If you villifying the righteous thug then you villifying people like Tupac.

[Deja23]

36 minutes ago, MrGlass2 said:

The problem with Killmonger is that the movie doesn't know if he is supposed to be a tragic anti-hero or a villain. I am sure a lot of kids will look up to him because his struggle is romanticized in the end. But at the same time because the movie is called Black Panther and not Killmonger, they have him commit horrible acts of violence (especially against women) and he is never really held accountable for it.

He dies...how is that not being held accountable to his crimes? And it wasn’t like T’Challa was going to let him go scot free even if he saved his life. That’s why Killmonger chose to die, T’Challa didn’t deny that he’d have to pay for his crimes and be locked up even though he accepts that Wakanda needs to do more in the world. If they wanted him to be an anti-hero, they would’ve kept him alive and turned him into what Loki is now. 

 

Killmonger’s views are very flawed and he didn’t change his mind about what he believes is right, even in the face of death. Though I empathize with what led him to where he ended up, I certainly don’t see him as an anti-hero and was not rooting for him. He was a villain and he was wrong in the way he chose to ‘fix’ the world. And he commits violence against men too. Kills 3 women and 3 men (4, but T’Challa wasn’t actually dead) onscreen. 

[grey ghost]

19 minutes ago, grey ghost said:

Because the world isn't black and white.

 

 

If you make the militant black nationalist pure evil you're villifying heroes of the black community from the 60's like Black Panthers and Malcolm X. If you villifying the righteous thug then you villifying people like Tupac.

To expand on this..

 

To large extent black extremist, political minded thugs and black terrorist need to be demonized.

 

Because they can be just as narrow minded, intolerant, evil, authoritarian, cruel and sociopathic as their white far right counter parts.

 

But sometimes their cause isn't always as corrupt and thoughtless.

 

Malcolm X for some time, advocated segregation and violent revolution. There were Black Panthers who advocated Stalinist communism and vengeful criminal activity.

 

But Malcolm X's father, who was a successful business man, was murdered by a KKK type group. His mother want crazy and ended up institutionalized. His family was destroyed. Many Black Panther members possibly had even worse experiences. So when they're angry and vengeful it's not like it's just to be evil.

 

Plus Darth Vader, Magneto and the Joker are iconic and they are far worse than Killmonger. If white kids don't copy them then I doubt black kids are going to plan an insurgency based on Killmonger.

 

In fact, giving these characters a voice actually gives youth a context to explore these themes outside their criminal minded bubble (most black kids don't exist in such bubbles though. Criminals are a small percentage of the black population).

 

Edited February 21, 2018 by grey ghost

[Blankments]

On 2/20/2018 at 3:54 PM, 4815162342 said:

Hawkeye has no connection to BP. Everett Ross is a major supporting character to BP in the comics. That's why it's Freeman in the film.

No, I understand that. I don't mind Ross as an idea, but once the decision was made to really make the X v MLK aspect of the film be an obvious comparison, his CIA background should've been dropped. I just offer Hawkeye as an option that clearly wouldn't be affiliated with a government, but honestly, Ross could work as an Ambassador or Interpol or something. 

 

(I also am one of the biggest Hawkeye fans on the board so that's my bias lol)

[grey ghost]

Another black guys opinion who writes for IGN...

 

http://www.ign.com/articles/2018/02/21/opinion-killmongers-rage-is-the-hard-truth-of-black-panther

[DeeCee]

Moderation

 

Stay on topic.

 

The BOT Staff

[grey ghost]

Killmonger hates America and he hates Wakanda.

 

He's nationless and fatherless due to a merciless stuggle he was born into.

 

When he's offered a American patriotism and a deep sense of African spiritual connection he just wants to burn it all to the ground, literally.

 

His anger isn't about saving black people or anyone else. It's 100% revenge fantasy.

 

People with this blind rage are hopeless.

 

As Killmonger's father said in the spiritual plane. They are lost.