***SPOILERS***SPOILERS***BLACK PANTHER SPOILER THREAD***SPOILERS***SPOILERS***

[nick64]

1 minute ago, Lordmandeep said:

 

This issue is Killmonger redeemable? and then people said how can Vader be based on what he did.

 

Luke forgive him and 20 years later wanted to kill someone for something he may do. 

 

So the question is who is redeemable and who is not? 

 

 

Again, this part has nothing to do with the rest of the conversation. Luke wasn’t the villain in question who supposedly redeemed himself; it was Vader. Luke’s decisions in regard to Kylo Ren don’t have anything to do with Killmonger and Black Panther, or even whether or not Vader was redeemed. If you think TLJ is poorly written, fine, you’ve made that clear, but this isn’t the place for it.

[Lordmandeep]

7 minutes ago, nick64 said:

Again, this part has nothing to do with the rest of the conversation. Luke wasn’t the villain in question who supposedly redeemed himself; it was Vader. Luke’s decisions in regard to Kylo Ren don’t have anything to do with Killmonger and Black Panther, or even whether or not Vader was redeemed. If you think TLJ is poorly written, fine, you’ve made that clear, but this isn’t the place for it.

 

 

 

Yeah it is Black Panther is gonna smash it down at the box office and has excited its audiences then divide it. 

 

Black Panther is how you make a blockbuster with a great storyline with novelty from other films in its genre and not piss off the fanbase. (MCU) 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 1, 2018 by Lordmandeep

[nick64]

3 minutes ago, Lordmandeep said:

 

 

Yeah it is Black Panther is gonna smash it down at the box office and has excited its audiences then divide it. 

 

Black Panther is how you make a blockbuster with a great storyline with novelty from other films iin its genre and not piss off the fanbase. (MCU) 

 

 

 

 

*sigh* I’m done

[RandomCat]

11 minutes ago, nick64 said:

*sigh* I’m done

He just really wants you to know he hated TLJ. Ignore him.

[RRA]

I’ll say this though: I liked TLJ but BP in retrospect made laughable attempts by some people to defend some of TLJ’s bloat as being “too smart” or “too adult” for the detractors. (When did SW fans adopt pages from the DCEU fandom playbook?)

[Lordmandeep]

38 minutes ago, RRA said:

I’ll say this though: I liked TLJ but BP in retrospect made laughable attempts by some people to defend some of TLJ’s bloat as being “too smart” or “too adult” for the detractors. (When did SW fans adopt pages from the DCEU fandom playbook?)

 

 

TLJ 'smart undertones' are not real undertones but fans of the film defending a storyline that was badly written. 

 

If the Undertones cant be picked upon by the audience, the writer failed in his job.

 

Black Panther had many many many undertones that were able to be understood by audiences as the writer did a much better job. 

Edited March 1, 2018 by Lordmandeep

[AndyLL]

Is there a reason we are talking about Star Wars in the BP thread?

[Durden]

[iHeartJames]

I was just thinking I wonder if Killmonger is with the ancestors

[scoobysaurus]

On 01/03/2018 at 6:41 PM, grey ghost said:

People love Joker, Vader, Dr Doom, Magneto, Loki, etc.

 

They are all mass murderers.

 

Do you think these characters shouldn't exist in future movies?

The movie did a great job in making me HATE the villain (isn't that what it's supposed to do?) and I hated him to the point that I enjoyed watching him die. The difference between Killmonger and those other villains you describe is that other movies aren't percieved as some kind of social commentary and cultural icon for impressionable audiences the way Black Panther is. Have you read the disturbing articles online describing Killmonger as the real "hero" of the film? Perhaps the thought of him racially profiling and killing children tickles some peoples' fancy but I find it disgusting and fitting for a truly despicable villain. Whites and Muslims have done a lot of irrepairable damage to my people too but I don't wish death upon their kids/descendants and if there were a movie with a brown villain saying such things my reaction would be the same. That single line about wiping out children just because of their race made me lose any sympathy I had for the character and sat patiently with baited breath hoping to watch Killmonger die and boy was I pleased when T'Challa killed him.

 

TLDR: to answer your question, I'm glad Killmonger died and no I don't want to see him in any future movie. Good riddance. 

[grey ghost]

That doesn't address my question. What about your double standard towards other super villains?

 

@scoobysaurus

[Lordmandeep]

Killmonger may have based his cause on legit concerns but his methods to take revenge were wrong.

 

He blamed the west for Colonization and wanted to have the  'sun never set on the wakandan empire''

 

it was easy to follow social commentary. 

[scoobysaurus]

17 hours ago, grey ghost said:

That doesn't address my question. What about your double standard towards other super villains?

 

@scoobysaurus

It does. If you're actually looking for an answer to your question which I already addressed, I've made some key points bold to make it easier for you.

17 hours ago, scoobysaurus said:

The difference between Killmonger and those other villains you describe is that other movies aren't percieved as some kind of social commentary and cultural icon for impressionable audiences the way Black Panther is. Have you read the disturbing articles online describing Killmonger as the real "hero" of the film? Perhaps the thought of him racially profiling and killing children tickles some peoples' fancy but I find it disgusting and fitting for a truly despicable villain. Whites and Muslims have done a lot of irrepairable damage to my people too but I don't wish death upon their kids/descendants and if there were a movie with a brown villain saying such things my reaction would be the same.

Please cite another 'supervillain' from your list that meets the above criteria before dishing out labels. Normalizing and celebrating killmonger's intentions and methods is the problem here and sets a dangerous precedent. Perhaps you're okay with that @grey ghost - I'm not. 

Edited March 3, 2018 by scoobysaurus

[grey ghost]

30 minutes ago, scoobysaurus said:

It does. If you're actually looking for an answer to your question which I already addressed, I've made some key points bold to make it easier for you.

Please cite another 'supervillain' from your list that meets the above criteria before dishing out labels. Normalizing and celebrating killmonger's intentions and methods is the problem here and sets a dangerous precedent. Perhaps you're okay with that @grey ghost - I'm not. 

TDK had a Joker who was basically a terrorist. Two Face represented a corrupt Justice System. 

 

The Joker killed women and Two Face took a child hostage.

 

Both make valid points about society's  hypocrisy and deceit.

 

No harm, no foul?

 

The Aurora shooter was inspired by The Joker. A dozen people killed yet nobody says Hollywood should never use the Joker again. Why? Because idiots own their stupidity. You can't blame a fictional character for their stupidity or lack of empathy.

 

Also Magneto is constantly making valid points. He's a damn Holocaust victim but his revenge fantasies are flat out evil. Some involve genocide. I'm not sure if there's a worse crime.

 

You think the angry black man deserves to be completely vilified but these issues are complex. A person who is angry about centuries of atrocities, dehumanization, and exploitation should be angry. If I lost by grandparents to the Holocaust or my people were wiped out by western expansion I'd be angry about those things too. But the sociopathic "revenge fantasy"  is what makes Killmonger the bad guy. It typically what separated the freedom fighters and potentially tyranical rebel fighters throughout history.

 

The movie acknowledges why some blacks are angry without spinning it as an unjust reaction.

 

But it also show the charismatic black nationalist can be misogynistic, selfish, and tyrannical with bloodlust and tunnel vision.

 

This allows a necessary dialogue in the black community about how we should tackle extremism and political rebellion in the future.

 

A socially conscious Black Panther movie that completely disregards and trivializes the views of the angry black person will have no credibility with black people and offer zero historical perspective and add nothing to the conversation.

 

I'd rather the movie piss of people who think blacks should "get over" 400 years of injustice like it never happened.

[scoobysaurus]

6 minutes ago, grey ghost said:

TDK had a Joker who was basically a terrorist. Two Face represented a corrupt Justice System. 

 

The Joker killed women and Two Face took a child hostage.

 

Both make valid points about society's  hypocrisy and deceit.

 

No harm, no foul?

 

The Aurora shooter was inspired by The Joker. A dozen people killed yet nobody says Hollywood should never use the Joker again. Why? Because idiots own their stupidity. You can't blame a fictional character for their stupidity or lack of empathy.

 

Also Magneto is constantly making valid points. He's a damn Holocaust victim but his revenge fantasies are flat out evil. Some involve genocide. I'm not sure if there's a worse crime.

 

You think the angry black man deserves to be completely vilified but these issues are complex. A person who is angry about centuries of atrocities, dehumanization, and exploitation should be angry. If I lost by grandparents to the Holocaust or my people were wiped out by western expansion I'd be angry about those things too. But the sociopathic "revenge fantasy"  is what makes Killmonger the bad guy. It typically what separated the freedom fighters and potentially tyranical rebel fighters throughout history.

 

The movie acknowledges why some blacks are angry without spinning it as an unjust reaction.

 

But it also show the charismatic black nationalist can be misogynistic, selfish, and tyrannical with bloodlust and tunnel vision.

 

This allows a necessary dialogue in the black community about how we should tackle extremism and political rebellion in the future.

 

A socially conscious Black Panther movie that completely disregards and trivializes the views of the angry black person will have no credibility with black people and offer zero historical perspective and add nothing to the conversation.

 

I'd rather the movie piss of people who think blacks should "get over" 400 years of injustice like it never happened.

Nobody was saying his concerns weren't legitimate. It's the methods that were wrong, instead of channeling it in a positive way like T'Challa does at the end of the movie by taking proactive measures towards the betterment of black people.

 

Slavery and poverty are still rampant in most parts of Africa even in the present day. My fiance's from Africa and we do what we can to help out - especially children. Maybe you should visit sometime and help too if you care as much as your posts suggest.

[grey ghost]

11 minutes ago, scoobysaurus said:

Nobody was saying his concerns weren't legitimate. It's the methods that were wrong, instead of channeling it in a positive way like T'Challa does at the end of the movie by taking proactive measures towards the betterment of black people.

 

Slavery and poverty are still rampant in most parts of Africa even in the present day. My fiance's from Africa and we do what we can to help out - especially children. Maybe you should visit sometime and help too if you care as much as your posts suggest.

Lmao.

 

You know 99% of Americans have never physically travelled to Africa to personally help but you picked the wrong person to play the "African charity" card.

 

I've been to South Africa and literally made rain money when I was surrounded by half a dozen child beggers who often roam the streets of Cape Town high on glue. I've also wrote checks for African charities.

 

But the suggestion that I don't really care about Africans because I rightfully pointed out that many Americans rather silence the angry Killmonger's of the world rather than acknowledge their historical perspective and reasons for resentment is the most elaborate display of mental gymnastics I've seen in weeks.

 

Bravo.

[eddyxx]

3 hours ago, scoobysaurus said:

It does. If you're actually looking for an answer to your question which I already addressed, I've made some key points bold to make it easier for you.

Please cite another 'supervillain' from your list that meets the above criteria before dishing out labels. Normalizing and celebrating killmonger's intentions and methods is the problem here and sets a dangerous precedent. Perhaps you're okay with that @grey ghost - I'm not. 

What are you talking about. X-Men is chock full of social commentary and Magneto is a genocidal maniac.

[DeeCee]

2 hours ago, eddyxx said:

What are you talking about. X-Men is chock full of social commentary and Magneto is a genocidal maniac.

Yeah, but he still has good in him. 

[grey ghost]

36 minutes ago, DeeCee said:

Yeah, but he still has good in him. 

He's genocidal mass murderer with a heart of gold.

 

People agree with Magneto's rhetoric because the mutants have been mistreated.

 

People agree with Killmonger's rhetoric because blacks have been mistreated.

 

The biggest difference is Killmonger wants the oppressed to have a revolution and Magneto wants the oppressed to commit genocide.

[Lordmandeep]

9 hours ago, grey ghost said:

He's genocidal mass murderer with a heart of gold.

 

People agree with Magneto's rhetoric because the mutants have been mistreated.

 

People agree with Killmonger's rhetoric because blacks have been mistreated.

 

The biggest difference is Killmonger wants the oppressed to have a revolution and Magneto wants the oppressed to commit genocide.

 

 

Killmonger wanted to do Imperialism in inverse dude lol ^ 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 4, 2018 by Lordmandeep