Alita: Battle Angel ***SPOILER THREAD***

[WhiteWings]

37 minutes ago, Deep Wang said:

 

The time frame from him dying, getting a new body, to climbing and then dying again(for real this time(?)) was so quick and perfunctory that it makes their already boring relationship almost pointless.

 

That really depends on how you look at it though. In terms of narrative Hugo is wasting away his second chance at life, it might seem like a bad decision to some, but I like the unorthodox outcome of his rescue.

 

Sometimes you just can't save people from themselves.

[WhiteWings]

And if it gives you some relief I can say that yes, he is dead for good.

Hugo's brain didn't get the Martian tech treatment against impacts. Nor a metal cranium.

His brain must be splattered. Not that I'd say that'd be the worst injury from which a character recovers in this series.

[Avatree]

I really liked their relationship, that was one of the strengths of the film. At least from alitas perspective. (didn't care about him as a character)

and yeah when he was rebuilt and then climbed up the pipe and then died, it was all a bit quick, felt like some scenes had been edited out. Which may not have made it better if they were in, but no that bit didn't really work for him as a character.

 

It did work in terms of the affect it has on Alita and that was what I thought was important. Seeing and believing Alita's reactions to events in the movie is enough for me. The entire film is held together (imo) by the character of Alita (and, I suppose in part by Rosa Salazar's performance).

 

 

Also can I just say I really liked how fast the credits went. More movies should do that.

[Rorschach]

Just out of curiosity, who does Casper Van Dien play in the film?

[Mulder]

No Clive Lee in this? He was awesome in the OVA.

[TomCruiseTop]

10 hours ago, Rorschach said:

Just out of curiosity, who does Casper Van Dien play in the film?

The cyborg that kills Ido's daughter. He's in the movie for maybe 60 seconds max. 

[SchumacherFTW]

Did anyone else think that the Motorball commentary was beyond cringey? Especially the way he tried to shoe horn in the phrase Battle Angel? I mean that sequence was awesome, but the commentary nearly killed it for me haha. 

[chuck0]

44 minutes ago, SchumacherFTW said:

Did anyone else think that the Motorball commentary was beyond cringey? Especially the way he tried to shoe horn in the phrase Battle Angel? I mean that sequence was awesome, but the commentary nearly killed it for me haha. 

 

Havent seen it, but that would be really close to the anime/manga... there is no fight/confrontation that does not involve tons of exposition about what is actually going on.

I guess that is part of what people who have seen it comment on when they say that in many parts it is a love letter to the source material. Cringe and all . 

[IronJimbo]

58 minutes ago, SchumacherFTW said:

Did anyone else think that the Motorball commentary was beyond cringey? Especially the way he tried to shoe horn in the phrase Battle Angel? I mean that sequence was awesome, but the commentary nearly killed it for me haha. 

Was fine for me.

 

Commentary for all American sports are cringey.

[IronJimbo]

Check out the OST on spotify its so damn good. They should have made it louder or something in the film.

[Elessar]

40 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

Check out the OST on spotify its so damn good. They should have made it louder or something in the film.

bought it off amazon. has some really great spots, would have wished for a few more of those but overall a good one. motorball is rocking!

Edited February 8, 2019 by Elessar

[marveldcfox]

On 2/7/2019 at 3:15 PM, JamesCameronScholar said:

Can we all just agree how perfectly cast Ed Norton is for Nova? 

At first I thought James Cameron was playing the character.

[Elessar]

2 minutes ago, marveldcfox said:

At first I thought James Cameron was playing the character.

hehe same here. that large nose, the mouth, all pretty similar. only when he took those glasses off i recognized him.

Edited February 8, 2019 by Elessar

[SchumacherFTW]

5 minutes ago, marveldcfox said:

At first I thought James Cameron was playing the character.

Definitely looked like him for a while

[TomCruiseTop]

Not to disparage Jim, but Ed Norton is far more handsome than JC. Although I've probably spent far too long looking at Jim to ever mistake him for someone else. 

[Avatree]

2 hours ago, marveldcfox said:

At first I thought James Cameron was playing the character.

You're not the only one.   I thought it was James Cameron cameo too.

Edited February 8, 2019 by Avatree

[dashrendar44]

Maybe I need to rewatch it but damn is this movie so frustrating...(I'm still collecting my thoughts, sorry for the rambling).

It's definetely lacking Cameron's epic and organic crescendo storytelling, his ironclad direction and keen craftman eye that can elevate perfunctory archetypes and trite cliches into iconic action movies shock full of bigger than life setpieces and thrilling epic rides driven by strongwilled character. It feels like a 2h30 epic being sawed to not exceed a 2h threshold for business purpose at the expense of pacing, thus being rendered like a B-movie version of a A-level Cameron movie. All the ingredients of a Cameron movie without gelling like a Cameron movie as the mixing dose is still in Rodriguez's hands, not a total dud like his recent offerings but not delivering a home run like Cameron's epics. Like a musician reading notes on the musical sheet he's given but doesn't have the composer's knack to know how long, how fast/slow, he got to interpret those notes relative to each other rythmically to make them fully ring and sing emphatically like intended. (Which is ironic because RR is actually a composer/musician). Squandered potential and half-baked ideas that don't quite stick the landing. Frustrating as Rodriguez was given the full custody of Cameron's creative baby on a silver plate just to deliver a piece of flashy popcorn entertainment stuck in second gear. A bicephalous production sometimes at odds between the ambitions and the execution. Rodriguez's pulpy instincts simmer through self-restraint and battle to stand up for Cameron's titanium sense of direction.

 

You sense that the universe is rich in terms of potential, the manga's setting is fascinating in blending Terminator and Blade Runner thematically for a wider audience (the cyberpunk transhumanist theme, artificial intelligence, the commodification and alienation of the human body being hacked to pieces by capitalist cybernetics, class warfare, environmentalism etc.) and the characters got all colourful backstories but it keeps everything at a surface level that never get scratched to be explored. (Vector, Ido's assistant, Hunter Warriors. It lacks Cameron's efficient quick brushes characterization so you're left without much to chew on as they aren't really memorable in themselves except for Zapan).

 

Alita is a truly fascinating character in media res and off-screen in terms of technological breakthrough (The scene when she first woke up is beautiful, the best scenes of the movie are just Alita contemplating and discovering herself for the first time, staring wide awake at the outside world or experiencing her newfound environment innocently. Too few poetic shots that prolly take their time to let you embrace and understand the character's inner journey through her POV organically. The few times Rodriguez finds the fine tuning and visual rythm that matches the narrative's heartbeat as a storyteller). Unfortunately, Alita is surrounded by a hodgepodge of frustrating material (just like she's surrounded by Frankenstein-like cyborgs made of repo junk mech and sleak gynoids), bogged down by editing and pofaced lines of dialogue delivered with a slice of polite boredom. I feel bad for Rosa Salazar, she puts her all in this CG character because she feels it could be her long-awaited break-out but everything around gets in the way to bring down her natural shine so the movie rests upon her shoulders to get by, losing momentum and heft when she's off-screen. I hope she can still get lead roles to showcase her acting without being supplanted by CG, she won't be to blame if the movie is a bust. It's not a Jupiter Ascending situation though as Alita is a genuine and sympathetic pro-active character.

 

Clunky transitions (or lack of), hokey editing feels like disjuncted vignettes that are fine in themselves but there's too much stop/start rythm and making ankward narrative leap from scene to scene to make them connect and build up properly. Once the Hunter Warrior plot gets going, there's so many things being thrown on the screen at a frantic pace to take in, weakening character development that needs time to breath and resonate in order to hit that right emotional note. Rodriguez can't adress "deep" moments, he's never been a brainy filmmaker interested in subtext and emotional resonance past the surface, what he tries to convey deep inside, just "cool" and "fun" pulp exploitation for the sake of it. He just pays lip service to what is on the page without adding his POV and outlook (if he has any of his own). He's not a dumb guy but he doesn't have the artist's sensibility and humanist understanding that James Cameron has injected in his body of work, to tackle such material by shedding those characters pathos wide open through their tribulations for us to fully commit and empathize with.

 

His tentatives often land with a thud (Connelly's character is the main culprit falling victim to that weakness. Waltz does what he can with what he has but he can only do so much with such a wonky pace butchering his character's trauma and transfer, what could have been heartwrenching. Hugo's death and immediate resuscitation just to die again is too rushed and tacked on). The dramatic strings are too thick and manipulated without much subtlety and mastery since it's never been Rodriguez's strengths as a director whatsoever.

 

The Alita's motorball scene should have been the climax to tie everything up in a neat bow like a classic 3 parts Cameron's climax. Motorball's race > Chiren sacrificing/Alita killing Vector> Hugo falling, agonizing and dying at the church. I guess that's the scriptwriting trap in trying to cram all the most popular beats from separate books into one storyline in a questionable chain of rushed events.

 

The whole Hugo cyborg thing when he goes on his suicidal trip to Zalem didn't have the connective tissue to work so abruptly as presented in the movie to land. Frankly, I would have taken more liberties with the manga like having a Hunter Warrior rebellion trying to take on Zalem by desperately escalating those big cables provoking a big battle over Iron City (Instead of a short flashback) edited in parrallel to the Motorball race and Alita taking on Vector (Put his HQ tower in the Motorball arena). That would have feel more Cameron-like to have all those simultaneous action with parrallel stakes. Then Alita rushes to save Hugo from the Fall, they fall together but Hugo's injuries are lethal and they crash into the church for him to die. The same one they were sitting at the top talking about their Zalem dreams. Going from a big setpiece to an intimate character driven climax like Aliens and Avatar.

 

It pains me to say that but Cameron should have chosen James Wan to direct this and elevate his script (Didn't like Aquaman but Wan directed the shit out of that whack gonzo script no holds barren, making the most with the crap he was given to work with). Or better, someone like Bong Joon-Ho. As it is, a fluffy popcorn ride, the flaws keep it from being a scifi classic among Cameron's cinematic landmarks that it had totally the potential to be. It's a movie that fails to keep me engaged all the way through emotionally past Alita's human awakening sequences like a Cameron movie does effortlessly so I just have to marvel at the striking cyberpunk imagery and the body horror it conjures.

 

This is the kind of movie I wanted to love in spite of the flaws but it's hard to not feel blue balled. Plenty of flawed movies still succeeded at the BO but damn the potential for greatness was so within close reach if Cameron/Kalogridis polished another draft and instructed Rodriguez to pace and tighten the shit out of it in editing because the tech is there to fulfill Kishiro's vision.

Edited February 10, 2019 by dashrendar44

[Avatree]

Jennifer Connolly in playful lingerie....

[Elessar]

9 hours ago, dashrendar44 said:

Maybe I need to rewatch it but damn is this movie so frustrating...(I'm still collecting my thoughts, sorry for the rambling).

It's definetely lacking Cameron's epic and organic crescendo storytelling, his ironclad direction and keen craftman eye that can elevate perfunctory archetypes and trite cliches into iconic action movies shock full of bigger than life setpieces and thrilling epic rides driven by strongwilled character. It feels like a 2h30 epic being sawed to not exceed a 2h threshold for business purpose at the expense of pacing, thus being rendered like a B-movie version of a A-level Cameron movie. All the ingredients of a Cameron movie without gelling like a Cameron movie as the mixing dose is still in Rodriguez's hands, not a total dud like his recent offerings but not delivering a home run like Cameron's epics. Like a musician reading notes on the musical sheet he's given but doesn't have the composer's knack to know how long, how fast/slow, he got to interpret those notes relative to each other rythmically to make them fully ring and sing emphatically like intended. (Which is ironic because RR is actually a composer/musician). Squandered potential and half-baked ideas that don't quite stick the landing. Frustrating as Rodriguez was given the full custody of Cameron's creative baby on a silver plate just to deliver a piece of flashy popcorn entertainment stuck in second gear. A bicephalous production sometimes at odds between the ambitions and the execution. Rodriguez's pulpy instincts simmer through self-restraint and battle to stand up for Cameron's titanium sense of direction.

 

You sense that the universe is rich in terms of potential, the manga's setting is fascinating in blending Terminator and Blade Runner thematically for a wider audience (the cyberpunk transhumanist theme, artificial intelligence, the commodification and alienation of the human body being hacked to pieces by cybernetics, class warfare, environmentalism etc.) and the characters got all colourful backstories but it keeps everything at a surface level that never get scratched to be explored. (Vector, Ido's assistant, Hunter Warriors. It lacks Cameron's efficient quick brushes characterization so you're left without much to chew on as they aren't really memorable in themselves except for Zapan).

 

Alita is a truly fascinating character in media res and off-screen in terms of technological breakthrough (The scene when she first woke up is beautiful, the best scenes of the movie are just Alita contemplating and discovering herself for the first time, staring wide awake at the outside world or experiencing her newfound environment innocently. Too few poetic shots that prolly take their time to let you embrace and understand the character's inner journey through her POV organically. The few times Rodriguez finds the fine tuning and visual rythm that matches the narrative's heartbeat as a storyteller). Unfortunately, Alita is surrounded by a hodgepodge of frustrating material (just like she's surrounded by Frankenstein-like cyborgs made of repo junk mech and sleak gynoids), bogged down by editing and pofaced lines of dialogue delivered with a slice of polite boredom. I feel bad for Rosa Salazar, she puts her all in this CG character because she feels it could be her long-awaited break-out but everything around gets in the way to bring down her natural shine so the movie rests upon her shoulders to get by, losing momentum and heft when she's off-screen. I hope she can still get lead roles to showcase her acting without being supplanted by CG, she won't be to blame if the movie is a bust. It's not a Jupiter Ascending situation though as Alita is a genuine and sympathetic pro-active character.

 

Clunky transitions (or lack of), hokey editing feels like disjuncted vignettes that are fine in themselves but there's too much stop/start rythm and making ankward narrative leap from scene to scene to make them connect and build up properly. Once the Hunter Warrior plot gets going, there's so many things being thrown on the screen at a frantic pace to take in, weakening character development that needs time to breath and resonate in order to hit that right emotional note. Rodriguez can't adress "deep" moments, he's never been a brainy filmmaker interested in subtext and emotional resonance past the surface, what he tries to convey deep inside, just "cool" and "fun" pulp exploitation for the sake of it. He just pays lip service to what is on the page without adding his POV and outlook (if he has any of his own). He's not a dumb guy but he doesn't have the artist's sensibility and humanist understanding that James Cameron has injected in his body of work, to tackle such material by shedding those characters pathos wide open through their tribulations for us to fully commit and empathize with.

 

His tentatives often land with a thud (Connelly's character is the main culprit falling victim to that weakness. Waltz does what he can with what he has but he can only do so much with such a wonky pace butchering his character's trauma and transfer, what could have been heartwrenching. Hugo's death and immediate resuscitation just to die again is too rushed and tacked on). The dramatic strings are too thick and manipulated without much subtlety and mastery since it's never been Rodriguez's strengths as a director whatsoever.

 

The Alita's motorball scene should have been the climax to tie everything up in a neat bow like a classic 3 parts Cameron's climax. Motorball's race > Chiren sacrificing/Alita killing Vector> Hugo falling, agonizing and dying at the church. I guess that's the scriptwriting trap in trying to cram all the most popular beats from separate books into one storyline in a questionable chain of rushed events.

 

The whole Hugo cyborg thing when he goes on his suicidal trip to Zalem didn't have the connective tissue to work so abruptly as presented in the movie to land. Frankly, I would have taken more liberties with the manga like having a Hunter Warrior rebellion trying to take on Zalem by desperately escalating those big cables provoking a big battle over Iron City (Instead of a short flashback) edited in parrallel to the Motorball race and Alita taking on Vector (Put his HQ tower in the Motorball arena). That would have feel more Cameron-like to have all those simultaneous action with parrallel stakes. Then Alita rushes to save Hugo from the Fall, they fall together but Hugo's injuries are lethal and she brings him to the church to die. Going from a big setpiece to an intimate character driven climax like Aliens and Avatar.

 

It pains me to say that but Cameron should have chosen James Wan to direct this and elevate his script (Didn't like Aquaman but Wan directed the shit out of that whack gonzo script no holds barren, making the most with the crap he was given to work with). Or better, someone like Bong Joon-Ho. As it is, a fluffy popcorn ride, the flaws keep it from being a scifi classic among Cameron's cinematic landmarks that it had totally the potential to be. It's a movie that fails to keep me engaged all the way through emotionally past Alita's human awakening sequences like a Cameron movie does effortlessly so I just have to marvel at the striking cyberpunk imagery and the body horror it conjures.

 

This is the kind of movie I wanted to love in spite of the flaws but it's hard to not feel blue balled. Plenty of flawed movies still succeeded at the BO but damn the potential for greatness was so within close reach if Cameron/Kalogridis polished another draft and instructed Rodriguez to pace and tighten the shit out of it in editing because the tech is there to fulfill Kishiro's vision.

I can agree with pretty much all that, especially the part about all the right ingredients not quite gelling as well as they could, yet i liked the end result a bit better.

[Dingdong]

The movie has top notch visual effects, and a good story, although it felt a bit all over the place. They were trying to tell Alita’s history for once, then jumps to Ido being Hunter Warrior, then goes to the baddie Hunter Warrior Zapan then suddenly goes to Chiren and Vector then leaps to Hugo’s dirty business and so on. Kinda all over the place but still a solid piece.