Joker: Folie a Deux | October 4, 2024 | Lady Gaga is Harley Quinn in this 200M+ musical sequel

[HummingLemon496]

9 minutes ago, WorkingonaName said:

Might have to revive this meme

 

9 movies in the 2020s, only 1 hit

 

(though admittedly WW84 would've been profitable if not for COVID)

Edited September 12 by HummingLemon496

[Welcbr12]

13 minutes ago, WorkingonaName said:

Might have to revive this meme

 

 

It's always time to revive this meme, it always proves to be true 

[cinema pal]

It's confusing to me how everyone talks  cmb this, cbm that, when joker movies are  distancing themselves completely from comic book movies, make charecters be nothing like in the comics, dump fantasy elements and make Gotham just regular boring city. I don't think wide audience think of them as DC movies and I don't think any DCU flops have anything to do with weak JFáD presales.

Edited September 12 by cinema pal

[Nero]

8 hours ago, Mulder said:

I know someone insisted in the tracking thread that Deadpool & Wolverine shows CBM fatigue isn't a thing but I disagree. I think the genre as a whole is dying out and one film that very much relied on bringing back past actors isn't imo a sign that the genre's fine.

Unless new MCU projects which are coming next disappoint I won't believe this stuff. Good CBM will make bank even if interest was low like GOTG and bad movies like ant man and dr strange will disappoint even if interest was sky high. Only bad movies/no interest movies are flopping nothing to do with genre

Edited September 12 by Nero

[Noctis]

Disaster move to premiere this in Venice. I have rarely seen reviews suffocate so much hype so quickly.

 

Lady Gaga was the best casting they could have done, and if reviews are to be believed, they wasted her and that's a big reason for the deflating hype.

 

Also, just don't make it a musical. 

[Cooper Legion]

MCU started flopping becasue they put out a bunch of bad content. DCEU flopped same reason. SPUMC likewise. All largely unrelated to each other’s failures.  
 

Joker 2 doing terribly so far is unconnected to any of them — joker 1 perfectly connected to a certain moment that isn’t there are more, didn’t need a sequel, and they made a big anti fan change in direction.  
 

Reeves stuff is separate, will stand or fall on its own (Batman 1 was medium performance and expect th same for bat 2). DCU is a new start, will stand or fall on its quality mostly. MCU future will stand or fall on upcoming MCU quality. Etc etc

Edited September 12 by Cooper Legion

[wattage]

This thread is as dismal as I imagined it would be, can't wait for this to continue on until July of 2025. 

[Ryan C]

7 minutes ago, Cooper Legion said:

MCU started flopping becasue they put out a bunch of bad content. DCEU flopped same reason. SPUMC likewise. All largely unrelated to each other’s failures.  
 

Joker 2 doing terribly so far is unconnected to any of them — joker 1 perfectly connected to a certain moment that isn’t there are more, didn’t need a sequel, and they made a big anti fan change in direction.  
 

Reeves stuff is separate, will stand or fall on its own (Batman 1 was medium performance and expect th same for bat 2). DCU is a new start, will stand or fall on its quality mostly. MCU future will stand or fall on upcoming MCU quality. Etc etc

 

You're 100% right about most of this, but remember that DC had 5 box office flops/disappointments in a row between 2022-2023 (barely more than a year's worth of time). Heck, it's technically 7 movies if you count Wonder Woman 1984 and The Suicide Squad. 

 

Having that many movies bomb in a row doesn't exactly make your brand more appealing for audiences. I feel like more people would legitmately give Joker 2 a chance if DC was putting out banger after banger (like Marvel in the 2010s). Sadly, Joker 2 is just coming out at possibly the worst time for not just the DC brand, but a comic-book movie that isn't an automatic crowdpleaser. 

[HummingLemon496]

2 minutes ago, Ryan C said:

 

You're 100% right about most of this, but remember that DC had 5 box office flops/disappointments in a row between 2022-2023 (barely more than a year's worth of time). Heck, it's technically 7 movies if you count Wonder Woman 1984 and The Suicide Squad. 

 

Having that many movies bomb in a row doesn't exactly make your brand more appealing for audiences. I feel like more people would legitmately give Joker 2 a chance if DC was putting out banger after banger (like Marvel in the 2010s). Sadly, Joker 2 is just coming out at possibly the worst time for not just the DC brand, but a comic-book movie that isn't an automatic crowdpleaser. 

I would count TSS but not WW84

[emoviefan]

You know what we should keep talking about is how Superman will fail before we see a trailer or the marketing starts up or how good it is because Joker 2 is failing for any number of reasons and because the GA/Casuals are morons and can not separate them. Or maybe not keep doing that.

[Belakor]

11 minutes ago, emoviefan said:

You know what we should keep talking about is how Superman will fail before we see a trailer or the marketing starts up or how good it is because Joker 2 is failing for any number of reasons and because the GA/Casuals are morons and can not separate them. Or maybe not keep doing that.

 

Well, the reality is that the DC brand is so damaged that the casual viewer is going to at least doubt to put his ass in a theater and see a movie that is not a Batman film, which is like another franchise apart at this point.  The same was (still?) happening with MCU.  D&W success also a beast of it's own. 

So Gunn's DCU will need to have a ton of quality and good track of movies before the audiences trust in the franchise once more.

Even if the Superman movie clicks the BO is going to disappoint everyone.

 

Edited September 12 by Belakor

[TomThomas]

38 minutes ago, Nero said:

Unless new MCU projects which are coming next disappoint I won't believe this stuff.

They will. Captain America and Thunderbolts will flop.

[TomThomas]

3 hours ago, Speedorito said:

There is no world in which Joker was the most liked CBM of the last five years.

It's definitely in top 3, we didn't have many well liked cbms in the past 5 years.

 

3 hours ago, Speedorito said:

Only Batman is a draw.

Batman was one of leads in Justice League... Also The Batman did well, but not great.

[thajdikt]

7 minutes ago, TomThomas said:

They will. Captain America and Thunderbolts will flop.

If they are bad, but not if they deliver on quality. Then they should be modest success at least in raw gross. Cap 4 budget is basically making it a flop no matter what as it would need 1B+ for success. Think the same with Superman. If it's good as some have already mentioned it can do well. For all this talk of movies flopping, we are yet to have a well received CBM movie flop post 2019. All the movies we mentioned in the flop category have had abysmal reception, the only one that arguably didn´t is TSS which was an HBO MAX day and date in a time covid was still keeping people at home. 

 

A big portion of the peak era of CBM movies also came from movies in general being recieved well. Which nobody seems to mention.  All those 2017-2019 movies that made so much money was had strong reception. No that doesn´t mean every movie was a masterpiece but they delivered on what audiences wanted out of them. Post 2019 it´s been more like 40/60 in the share of movies audiences has liked/disliked. But those that was bad, disappointed like a JL or Dark Phoenix also failed in that era.

 

But ye I disagree about the genre dying. Quality have to go up as audiences will be vary of going unless it´s a big character. As @Eric the Marxist mentioned, the increase in content, especially in streaming have really done bad damage on multiple levels, but the most important especially for Marvel, quality. Everything is subjective but it´s clear that many movies has disappointed the audience.

 

Joker 2 seems like a movie that audiences aren't interested in based on what we are seeing in sales. Which is wild but it is what it is. 

[thajdikt]

Just now, TomThomas said:

 didn't have many well liked cbms in the past 5 years.

 

Shazam, The Batman, Joker, TSS, FFH, NWH, Shang-Chi, Wakanda Forever, GotG vol 3, ASTV, Endgame, Deadpool and Wolverine. Plenty of liked movies the last 5 years. 

[Cooper Legion]

3 minutes ago, thajdikt said:

Shazam, The Batman, Joker, TSS, FFH, NWH, Shang-Chi, Wakanda Forever, GotG vol 3, ASTV, Endgame, Deadpool and Wolverine. Plenty of liked movies the last 5 years. 

Endgame FFH and Shazam are more than 5 years ago tbf 😛 

[WorkingonaName]

Was Shazam well liked? its not like anyone went to see more of it. 

[HummingLemon496]

1 minute ago, WorkingonaName said:

Was Shazam well liked? its not like anyone went to see more of it. 

Uhh.  . .yes? It had a 90% RT and an A on CinemaScore, the sequel bombing doesn't change that. 

 

 

Edited September 12 by HummingLemon496

[TomThomas]

23 minutes ago, thajdikt said:

Shazam, The Batman, Joker, TSS, FFH, NWH, Shang-Chi, Wakanda Forever, GotG vol 3, ASTV, Endgame, Deadpool and Wolverine. Plenty of liked movies the last 5 years. 

Endgame, Shazam and FFH were over 5 years ago. Okay, I wanted to say *very well liked. I don't think Wakanda Forever and TSS are *very well liked, at least by audiences. The Batman, Joker, ASTV, NWH & DP&W yes, 1 movie per year is not a lot.

Edited September 12 by TomThomas

[TomThomas]

5 minutes ago, HummingLemon496 said:

Uhh.  . .yes? It had a 90% RT and an A on CinemaScore, the sequel bombing doesn't change that. 

By letterboxd and imdb ratings it did just okay, actually on letterboxd it did worse than okay. Cinemascore shouldn't be used to meassure anything, Jurassic World: Dominion got A- somehow, but it clearly wasn't well received by anyone, to say the least.

Edited September 12 by TomThomas