Ahsoka Live Action Series | Disney Plus | August 23

[ChipDerby]

Terrific episode.

 

I never watched Clone Wars but did Ahsoka cross her arms all the time in that

[Porthos]

24 minutes ago, ChipDerby said:

Terrific episode.

 

I never watched Clone Wars but did Ahsoka cross her arms all the time in that

 

Yes. 

 

It's like her Signature Rest Stance.

 

Don't believe me?  One of many many Google Hits:

 

 

(Snips [as in "snippy"] was a well earned nickname, I'll put it that way)

Edited September 13, 2023 by Porthos

[Darth Lehnsherr]

Ah man easily the best episode and no it's not memberries (ok maybe a tad of that) but geuninely using Anakin in support of Ahsoka's journey was expected but nevertheless still very powerful. 

[Darth Lehnsherr]

Spoiler

Also does anyone else handle a lightsaber fight better than Hayden?? His physicality when he wields a lightsaber really sells how powerful and dangerous Anakin is. 

 

[4815162342]

Feel like the show is constantly almost there but not quite. A bunch of good stuff, but always not quite gelling or going over the critical mass into great.

[Cap]

Me watching the episode: NO. NO. I DONT CARE. DO NOT CUT AWAY

[Porthos]

She's skirting the No Promotion line, but screw it, only live once:

 

(still within informal spoiler period and while I'm sympathetic to the Cast Announcements Ain't Spoilers, the tweet being replied to is on the spoily side, so being safe here)

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

TECHNICALLY THIS IS PROMOTING TCW!!!!!   

 

===

 

Seriously though, between this and her posts on Instagram and Twitter last night it's 1] clear how much she loved this gig and 2] a fucking crying shame that she can't openly enjoy it/discuss it thanks to AMPTP intransigence.  

Edited September 14, 2023 by Porthos

[Youngstar]

8 hours ago, Porthos said:

She's skirting the No Promotion line, but screw it, only live once:

 

(still within informal spoiler period and while I'm sympathetic to the Cast Announcements Ain't Spoilers, the tweet being replied to is on the spoily side, so being safe here)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

TECHNICALLY THIS IS PROMOTING TCW!!!!!   

 

===

 

Seriously though, between this and her posts on Instagram and Twitter last night it's 1] clear how much she loved this gig and 2] a fucking crying shame that she can't openly enjoy it/discuss it thanks to AMPTP intransigence.  

yep. I'm also really sad that Rosario can't share anything and interact on twitter. She is always very active there and it's such a shame to miss that...

Screw the AMPTP... (really hope they come to their senses soon)

[SnokesLegs]

12 hours ago, Cap said:

Me watching the episode: NO. NO. I DONT CARE. DO NOT CUT AWAY

Literally every single time it cut to Hera.

 

Despite that, best episode so far and I’m pleased to see Ahsoka get fleshed out more. Hayden was actually genuinely good too, just goes to show that he was hamstrung by bad dialogue in the prequels. Also, regardless of what the Twitter hive mind is saying, the de-aging looked great, probably helps that they don’t have to de-age him too much, but it didn’t have the uncanny valley effect that we’ve seen before in previous attempts.

[Cap]

13 hours ago, Porthos said:

She's skirting the No Promotion line, but screw it, only live once:

 

(still within informal spoiler period and while I'm sympathetic to the Cast Announcements Ain't Spoilers, the tweet being replied to is on the spoily side, so being safe here)

 

  Hide contents

 

 

 

TECHNICALLY THIS IS PROMOTING TCW!!!!!   

 

Seriously though, between this and her posts on Instagram and Twitter last night it's 1] clear how much she loved this gig and 2] a fucking crying shame that she can't openly enjoy it/discuss it thanks to AMPTP intransigence.  

She was the best actor in the episode. 

[Cap]

2 hours ago, SnokesLegs said:

Literally every single time it cut to Hera.

 

RIGHT! Why are you cutting away from my true trash woobie king. (Seriously, the ways I will excused and mother Clone Wars Anakin’s behavior is such trash. He turns me into such a hypocrite. I don’t care. I love him so much. Baby never did anything wrong his whole life!!!!)

 

 

2 hours ago, SnokesLegs said:

Also, regardless of what the Twitter hive mind is saying, the de-aging looked great, probably helps that they don’t have to de-age him too much, but it didn’t have the uncanny valley effect that we’ve seen before in previous attempts.

 

Spoiler

I actually thought it worked SO well here, because they were doing it thematically. I gasped when ROTS Anakin showed up  🥺🥺 

 

so it didn’t feel like they were just obsessing over deaging the actors. But there was a purpose behind what they were doing.

 

[Porthos]

3 hours ago, Cap said:

 

RIGHT! Why are you cutting away from my true trash woobie king. (Seriously, the ways I will excused and mother Clone Wars Anakin’s behavior is such trash. He turns me into such a hypocrite. I don’t care. I love him so much. Baby never did anything wrong his whole life!!!!

 

 

For you, Cap. ❤️

 

[Porthos]

 (WARNING:  LOOOOOOOONG POST INCOMING — But, hey, expected, right? 😉 )

 

So I want to talk about "the lesson" in this episode and what I think it was, as on the surface it seems contradictory about whether one should fight or not and how that shapes ones legacy.

 

It is.  That's the point.

 

I don't want to go all Zen Buddhist here, as my understanding of it is all surface level (did study Taoism in younger days, but it's been a long while since I revisited it), but AIUI one of the tenets of the Zen koan is to use paradoxes to try to derive enlightenment.  I think Filoni was intentionally channeling that sort of thinking all throughout this episode.

 

And I think that's most apparent in the following exchange:

 

Young Ahsoka:  What if I want to stop fighting.

*Anakin long pause*

Anakin:  Then you'll die.

 

If it had just stopped there, then it would serve as both an in-time commentary about having to fight in the Clone Wars while at the same time speaking to Older Ahsoka about what she has to do in the present (as this is still Older Ahsoka talking through Young Ahsoka).

 

Except it didn't stop there.  The scene continues with Anakin walking into the smoke (ie the future) and then shifting between Anakin and Vader, suggesting that if she does walk that path that Anakin just suggested, she'll fall as well.

 

There's another example of this contradiction between What Anakin Says and What Anakin Does/Shows Will Happen at the Siege of Mandalore part of the episode, but IMO it's hammered home in its finality in their final duel.  Anakin says "Time to die" but then Ahsoka manages to disarm Anakin and in turn has his blade right at his neck.  She gives a VERY long pause and is about to strike him down in anger (with Fading in Sith eyes and everything) before stopping and saying "I choose to live."

 

That was the critical moment.  Learning when to fight and when not to fight.  When to kill and when not to kill.  Not to kill in anger.  Not to kill over all of the angst and pain and regret over thinking that she had failed Anakin years before.  Choosing to live in the now.  When she stops and says "I choose to live" IMO, she is talking about no longer worrying about being nothing more than a tool of death and destruction as Baylan had claimed in the prior episode.  No longer being afraid of actually following in her master's footsteps.  Which is why Anakin pauses, drops out of Vader Mode* and then says, very approvingly as if to a star student finally grasping a difficult lesson, "There's hope for you yet."

 

Even as far back as her very first episode of Mando I... I won't say I was concerned with her gusto and relish in killing all those mooks at the beginning of the episode, but I sure as hell noted it at the time mentally.  A real "HMMMMMMMM" moment.  As was her standoffish nature even then when dealing with the problem at hand.  Looking back now it is almost certainly intentional seeds being planted about Ahsoka's Frame Of Mind after Decades of War and Suffering.

 

I could keep going on about about this, but I'll stop with the above examples and simply say that what Anakin was trying to do here is Say One Thing, but Then Suggest What Will Happens If She Does That and let her figure out how to solve the contradiction.

 

...

 

Will this lesson take?  Well, guess we'll see in Ahsoka v Baylan Round Two.  

 

* NB: Was Anakin actually Vader in those scenes?  Was he channeling Vader?  Or was he "just acting" as a Sink or Swim mentor and faking it as a way to really get through a particularly stubborn student?

 

Don't know, don't care. Not really important.  At least for this tale.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Porthos

[Porthos]

Of course nearly all of the above wittering also applies to her hesitation over training Sabine and worrying about what she's signing Sabine up for... But, hey, long post was already long so take it as read.  

[ZeroHour]

12 hours ago, Porthos said:

 (WARNING:  LOOOOOOOONG POST INCOMING — But, hey, expected, right? 😉 )

 

So I want to talk about "the lesson" in this episode and what I think it was, as on the surface it seems contradictory about whether one should fight or not and how that shapes ones legacy.

 

It is.  That's the point.

 

I don't want to go all Zen Buddhist here, as my understanding of it is all surface level (did study Taoism in younger days, but it's been a long while since I revisited it), but AIUI one of the tenets of the Zen koan is to use paradoxes to try to derive enlightenment.  I think Filoni was intentionally channeling that sort of thinking all throughout this episode.

 

And I think that's most apparent in the following exchange:

 

Young Ahsoka:  What if I want to stop fighting.

*Anakin long pause*

Anakin:  Then you'll die.

 

If it had just stopped there, then it would serve as both an in-time commentary about having to fight in the Clone Wars while at the same time speaking to Older Ahsoka about what she has to do in the present (as this is still Older Ahsoka talking through Young Ahsoka).

 

Except it didn't stop there.  The scene continues with Anakin walking into the smoke (ie the future) and then shifting between Anakin and Vader, suggesting that if she does walk that path that Anakin just suggested, she'll fall as well.

 

There's another example of this contradiction between What Anakin Says and What Anakin Does/Shows Will Happen at the Siege of Mandalore part of the episode, but IMO it's hammered home in its finality in their final duel.  Anakin says "Time to die" but then Ahsoka manages to disarm Anakin and in turn has his blade right at his neck.  She gives a VERY long pause and is about to strike him down in anger (with Fading in Sith eyes and everything) before stopping and saying "I choose to live."

 

That was the critical moment.  Learning when to fight and when not to fight.  When to kill and when not to kill.  Not to kill in anger.  Not to kill over all of the angst and pain and regret over thinking that she had failed Anakin years before.  Choosing to live in the now.  When she stops and says "I choose to live" IMO, she is talking about no longer worrying about being nothing more than a tool of death and destruction as Baylan had claimed in the prior episode.  No longer being afraid of actually following in her master's footsteps.  Which is why Anakin pauses, drops out of Vader Mode* and then says, very approvingly as if to a star student finally grasping a difficult lesson, "There's hope for you yet."

 

Even as far back as her very first episode of Mando I... I won't say I was concerned with her gusto and relish in killing all those mooks at the beginning of the episode, but I sure as hell noted it at the time mentally.  A real "HMMMMMMMM" moment.  As was her standoffish nature even then when dealing with the problem at hand.  Looking back now it is almost certainly intentional seeds being planted about Ahsoka's Frame Of Mind after Decades of War and Suffering.

 

I could keep going on about about this, but I'll stop with the above examples and simply say that what Anakin was trying to do here is Say One Thing, but Then Suggest What Will Happens If She Does That and let her figure out how to solve the contradiction.

 

...

 

Will this lesson take?  Well, guess we'll see in Ahsoka v Baylan Round Two.  

 

* NB: Was Anakin actually Vader in those scenes?  Was he channeling Vader?  Or was he "just acting" as a Sink or Swim mentor and faking it as a way to really get through a particularly stubborn student?

 

Don't know, don't care. Not really important.  At least for this tale.

Great post! I liked that this episode reminded us that Ahsoka was trained in a time of war and asked us to think about the ways that has shaped her. But to your point about her killing mooks in her episode of Mando, it's an interesting contrast to when Order 66 occurs and she refuses to directly kill clone troopers to survive (not a direct parallel since she obviously does not care about the mooks). That experience is still not a pure one, she let's out Maul knowing he'll kill his way through the ship so even then war is always forcing her to compromise. But in some ways, at the end of the clone wars and through Rebels she's a more enlightened figure than the person we find in Mando season 2.

 

It's interesting then to think about how discovering Anakin became Darth Vader broke her. There's also whatever occurred between her and Sabine and her decision not to intervene on Mandalore that we don't know that much about yet. The show raised questions about her behavior in the first that finally came to a head here. Mentioning that she had interrogated Elsbeth in a way inconsistent with the Jedi in the first episode and her lack of control in her fight with Baylan. I think Filoni is not the most subtle of storytellers and her very Gandalf-esque change in wardrobe probably answers your question about whether the lesson will take.

 

I think your interpretation of the "I choose to live" line is spot on. Death doesn't have to be literal and continuing down this path she was on before this intervention would itself be a kind of death. Surviving is not the same as living.

[4815162342]

18 hours ago, Porthos said:

 

 

* NB: Was Anakin actually Vader in those scenes?  Was he channeling Vader?  Or was he "just acting" as a Sink or Swim mentor and faking it as a way to really get through a particularly stubborn student?

 

Don't know, don't care. Not really important.  At least for this tale.

 

The episode in my opinion definitely leaves it completely open as to whether it really is Ghost Anakin communing with his apprentice or if it's her subconscious finally taking a minute to simmer and play out her personal fears and confusions in front of her in order for her to reach an understanding (a la Kylo halluncinating his dad in Episode 9)

 

And you know what? It doesn't matter, and it's something neither the show nor Filoni ever need to address or clarify. To harken back to a different mega franchise: "Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?”

[JustLurking]

So how watchable is this without clone wars and rebels?

[Porthos]

13 minutes ago, JustLurking said:

So how watchable is this without clone wars and rebels?

 

You know, this is always a tough thing to answer.  The knee jerk reaction is something like this:

 

On 9/6/2023 at 11:19 PM, Porthos said:

 

*after 24 hours of reflection*

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Maaaan, I can't wait to see how he'll try to explain TWBW to casuals next week and make it work without seeming clunky within the episode.  

 

 

But the thing is, I say that partially in jest *AS* someone who has seen all of TCW and Rebels.

 

On the other hand, @ChipDerby apparently hasn't seen a moment of either series and isn't lost at all.  The last episode in fact wasn't nearly as impenetrable to casual fans as I initially feared, for instance.

 

When it comes down to it, I tend to think the biggest problem isn't knowing the backstory... it's knowing the backstory exists.  Which can gnaw at some folks.

 

Like, say this was — picks a random historical example — LOST, we'd just presume this was TV Weirdness and not worry about the backstory.  Or rather debate it for hours on end.  But because we know the backstory exists where various things were first introduced there might be a feeling that whatever questions one has about characters or situations could get answered after watching an insane amount of back content.

 

I suppose in the end it is watchable as someone who hasn't seen either series as the character motivations within this series are very well established.... it's just your own personal threshold over:

 

 

if you see what I mean.

 

Edited September 16, 2023 by Porthos

[Porthos]

Let me answer the question a different way, @JustLurking.

 

As I said, the motivations for characters are very clear without needing to know one moment of prior storytelling.

 

The emotional moments are also clearly laid out and setup within this series, even if they have muuuuuch deeper resonance for long time viewers.

 

The story beats draw more off of things like Tolkien, Dickens, and Kurosawa than they do specific things introduced in either The Clone Wars or Rebels.

 

This isn't to say that there isn't anything specifically taken from either of those prior shows, coz lol of course there is. 

 

But I think the real question you have is: Can I understand and enjoy what is happening in this series without watching TCW or Rebels, and I would say yes you can, since the themes being drawn on are either universal or more touching on general pop culture (as the examples given above).  Though personal taste of course always enters the equation at that point.

[JustLurking]

24 minutes ago, Porthos said:

Let me answer the question a different way, @JustLurking.

 

As I said, the motivations for characters are very clear without needing to know one moment of prior storytelling.

 

The emotional moments are also clearly laid out and setup within this series, even if they have muuuuuch deeper resonance for long time viewers.

 

The story beats draw more off of things like Tolkien, Dickens, and Kurosawa than they do specific things introduced in either The Clone Wars or Rebels.

 

This isn't to say that there isn't anything specifically taken from either of those prior shows, coz lol of course there is. 

 

But I think the real question you have is: Can I understand and enjoy what is happening in this series without watching TCW or Rebels, and I would say yes you can, since the themes being drawn on are either universal or more touching on general pop culture (as the examples given above).  Though personal taste of course always enters the equation at that point.

let's say I am not a big star wars fan myself so I'll be fine not getting everything laid out about the lore lol mostly was just curious if I'd be able to watch without constantly feeling like I'm missing groundwork to know what's going on and it sounds like I'll be fine on that front.

Edited September 16, 2023 by JustLurking