Ahsoka Live Action Series | Disney Plus | August 23

[Ozymandias]

1. Andor

 

2. Mando 1

 

 

 

3. Mando 2

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4. Ahsoka

 

 

5. Mando 3

 

 

 

5. Obi-Wan

 

 

7. Boba Fett

[TwoMisfits]

So, I'm 2 episodes in...not as bad as Boba, but it's pretty close to Obi Wan...same "I don't know wanna be the hero/mentor" vibe which annoyed me from the get go with him.

 

Now that the 2nd episode finally flushed that, we'll see where the rest goes.  

[4815162342]

My opinion on the Star Wars shows so far

 

Andor- A

Mando Season 2- A-

Mando Season 1- B+

Mando Season 3- B

Ahsoka- B-

Book of Boba Fett- C+

Obi-Wan- C

 

 

Curious how Skeleton Crew shakes out since it takes place in the Mandoverse and while Jon Watts doesn't scream excellence, he's assembled a pretty interesting crew of directors for the show. Also roguish Jude Law is usually a plus.

 

Acolyte is the big question mark, since it is the first live action Star Wars to take place outside of the Skywalker Saga and if it hits, it will go a long way to convince the higher-ups and Lucasfilm to maybe start expanding the series outside of a roughly 60-year time period.

Edited October 14, 2023 by 4815162342

[Menor the Destroyer]

On 10/11/2023 at 5:44 PM, Darth Lehnsherr said:

My thoughts as someone who adores Clone Wars and Rebels continues to grow in stature for me is that I enjoyed it but for me whenever the show has something interesting potentially happening in terms of character conflict it eschews it in favor of mystery or hitting plot points like moving a chess piece. This made the final episode really rushed in terms of having to resolve the main story but also trying to give service to the character moments (I wouldn't even call them arcs unfortunately). 

 

More and more I'm becoming less a fan of this limited series type format and more and more I really wish these characters had their stories continue in animation. 

Yeah, rewatched Rebels S1 recently and while it gets a lot of flak from certain corners of the fanbase for being too kid-friendly and whatnot I think it's just a much better season than Ahsoka structurally. Maybe Filoni just isn't comfortable writing for 8 longer live-action episodes compared to 15-20 shorter animated ones. 

[Arlborn]

On 10/11/2023 at 7:44 PM, Darth Lehnsherr said:

My thoughts as someone who adores Clone Wars and Rebels continues to grow in stature for me is that I enjoyed it but for me whenever the show has something interesting potentially happening in terms of character conflict it eschews it in favor of mystery or hitting plot points like moving a chess piece. This made the final episode really rushed in terms of having to resolve the main story but also trying to give service to the character moments (I wouldn't even call them arcs unfortunately). 

 

More and more I'm becoming less a fan of this limited series type format and more and more I really wish these characters had their stories continue in animation. 

I love live action myself, I’ll always prefer it when possible, but it’s just too few episodes, they really need to make these shows have more episodes, this flaw really showed in Ahsoka. Yes, I still loved it, but it really could have used more time there at the end.

[TwoMisfits]

So, I hate the endings and motivations in episodes 4, 5, and 6.  They dropped to a Boba Level (I mean, Ahsoka just not caring where the whales take her - after Hera saves her life AND is gonna take the fall for not having her back up the story back on Coruscant?  Sabine just deciding the whole world can die for one dude...and then whining for that dude every moment of episode 6 until finding him and they just not telling him anything - and he's not that great).

 

Sole saving part of the episodes is Thrawn and the witches coven - I feel like they have power.  I can see them being the new big bad, even without me having read all the now-non-canon Thrawn books...and I like Hera and Jacen.  I'd rather see them in a future series and we can punt Ahsoka and Sabine...

 

I'm gonna watch episodes 7 and 8...but it's gonna be hard to redeem those 2 for me...

[Arlborn]

6 hours ago, TwoMisfits said:

So, I hate the endings and motivations in episodes 4, 5, and 6.  They dropped to a Boba Level (I mean, Ahsoka just not caring where the whales take her - after Hera saves her life AND is gonna take the fall for not having her back up the story back on Coruscant?  Sabine just deciding the whole world can die for one dude...and then whining for that dude every moment of episode 6 until finding him and they just not telling him anything - and he's not that great).

 

Sole saving part of the episodes is Thrawn and the witches coven - I feel like they have power.  I can see them being the new big bad, even without me having read all the now-non-canon Thrawn books...and I like Hera and Jacen.  I'd rather see them in a future series and we can punt Ahsoka and Sabine...

 

I'm gonna watch episodes 7 and 8...but it's gonna be hard to redeem those 2 for me...

Boba level, woah that's harsh!

 

Sabine did something stupid but very predictable I feel considering her overall situation, therefore I feel like her motivations are pretty obvious and realistic in the moment thinking, but I can understand some people hating her for that. In fact, when I watched it for the first time I caught myself wishing it were a book just so I could yell at it and then throw it across the room, I got pretty angry at her, but eventually I got it.

 

My read on Ahsoka with the whales is that she 100% trusted that the force was guiding her and would take her to where she was needed. I'm pretty sure she was relaxed about it because she finally started to trust in the force again.

 

Thrawn and the witches are great yes. And I must tell you that there are actually new Thrawn books that came out in the last couple of years that are canon and in my opinion they are great.

 

Also, no mention of Anakin?

[TwoMisfits]

8 hours ago, Arlborn said:

 

 

Also, no mention of Anakin?

 

Anakin was like cotton candy - perfect in the moment, but afterwards you ask why you really wanted that.  I mean, it's cheap Darth Vader ploy...and I don't think the series needed to spent almost 1 full episode on it when it only has 8.  I'd have preferred more Thrawn, Baylon, Ezra, or Hera/Jacen (Jacen popping up out of nowhere in that midseason episode)...

 

Still have my 2 episodes left b/c I've been watching the Phils win - hoping to get through them by this weekend:)...

Edited October 18, 2023 by TwoMisfits

[TwoMisfits]

8 hours ago, Arlborn said:

Boba level, woah that's harsh!

 

Sabine did something stupid but very predictable I feel considering her overall situation, therefore I feel like her motivations are pretty obvious and realistic in the moment thinking, but I can understand some people hating her for that. In fact, when I watched it for the first time I caught myself wishing it were a book just so I could yell at it and then throw it across the room, I got pretty angry at her, but eventually I got it.

 

My read on Ahsoka with the whales is that she 100% trusted that the force was guiding her and would take her to where she was needed. I'm pretty sure she was relaxed about it because she finally started to trust in the force again.

 

Thrawn and the witches are great yes. And I must tell you that there are actually new Thrawn books that came out in the last couple of years that are canon and in my opinion they are great.

 

Also, no mention of Anakin?

 

Sabine's entire character arc is a plot device.  No one acts this way (especially Mandalorians b/c we have an entire show about their self-sacrificing nature for the good of their people and the universe, and about how the Empire destroyed them after a deal made).  But they had to go get Thrawn, so it's been one note (save Ezra) for episode upon episode.  I mean, the Episode 7 movie, when it was about finding Luke, wasn't THIS one note, and he was at least the savior of the full universe before and considered the most powerful person in the galaxy.  Ezra is just a guy.

[Arlborn]

59 minutes ago, TwoMisfits said:

 

Anakin was like cotton candy - perfect in the moment, but afterwards you ask why you really wanted that.  I mean, it's cheap Darth Vader ploy...and I don't think the series needed to spent almost 1 full episode on it when it only has 8.  I'd have preferred more Thrawn, Baylon, Ezra, or Hera/Jacen (Jacen popping up out of nowhere in that midseason episode)...

 

Still have my 2 episodes left b/c I've been watching the Phils win - hoping to get through them by this weekend:)...

 

I very much disagree with that, Anakin had the very clear narrative purpose of getting Ahsoka back to the path of the Jedi, she's literally become "Ahsoka the White" (Filoni, the showrunner, is very on the nose sometimes) after her experience with him, finally putting her heavy Clone Wars emotional baggage behind her and finally being able to trust in the force and herself again.

 

The show definitely should've had a couple of extra episodes though.

 

52 minutes ago, TwoMisfits said:

 

Sabine's entire character arc is a plot device.  No one acts this way (especially Mandalorians b/c we have an entire show about their self-sacrificing nature for the good of their people and the universe, and about how the Empire destroyed them after a deal made).  But they had to go get Thrawn, so it's been one note (save Ezra) for episode upon episode.  I mean, the Episode 7 movie, when it was about finding Luke, wasn't THIS one note, and he was at least the savior of the full universe before and considered the most powerful person in the galaxy.  Ezra is just a guy.

 

Sabine has never been your typical Mandalorian, but the real reason for her decision is that Ezra is family for them, it's really that simple. But then again, I'm not sure how clear that is to the people who haven't watched Rebels.

 

Ultimately it's obviously your opinion, and I do get where all your complaints are coming from, but I guess that for me, a big fan of the Rebels cartoon (and the difference might be there), all of those things just work well. It is what it is.

 

 

Once you finish watching the show, I guess you might like to watch the Honest Trailer that has just been dropped for it, it's quite harsh with the show, that might resonate with you:

 

 

 

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Arlborn

[TwoMisfits]

51 minutes ago, Arlborn said:

 

I very much disagree with that, Anakin had the very clear narrative purpose of getting Ahsoka back to the path of the Jedi, she's literally become "Ahsoka the White" (Filoni, the showrunner, is very on the nose sometimes) after her experience with him, finally putting her heavy Clone Wars emotional baggage behind her and finally being able to trust in the force and herself again.

 

The show definitely should've had a couple of extra episodes though.

 

 

Sabine has never been your typical Mandalorian, but the real reason for her decision is that Ezra is family for them, it's really that simple. But then again, I'm not sure how clear that is to the people who haven't watched Rebels.

 

Ultimately it's obviously your opinion, and I do get where all your complaints are coming from, but I guess that for me, a big fan of the Rebels cartoon (and the difference might be there), all of those things just work well. It is what it is.

 

 

Once you finish watching the show, I guess you might like to watch the Honest Trailer that has just been dropped for it, it's quite harsh with the show, that might resonate with you:

 

 

 

 

 

But I don't watch the cartoons, so I come to this as a 1st time live action viewer who's watched the other live action.  If they wanted us to have to watch the cartoons, they should have rehashed that in a "trailer 0" 5 minute recap at the start of episode 1.  They can't expect every D+ viewer to watch every series, especially cross-medium (like expecting cartoons to play into live action).  The motivations need to stand on their own in the series.

 

So, a viewer of the cartoons may feel like this series is delivering more...but I can say as a non-viewer of the cartoons, but a full viewer of the live actions, this is really missing on delivery.  Ashoka to me is who we see in Mando and Boba (since they are supposed to predate this series in time) - Luke didn't seem to think she needed to "trust in the force again" and she seemed pretty dang in touch in those series...

Edited October 18, 2023 by TwoMisfits

[Arlborn]

36 minutes ago, TwoMisfits said:

 

But I don't watch the cartoons, so I come to this as a 1st time live action viewer who's watched the other live action.  If they wanted us to have to watch the cartoons, they should have rehashed that in a "trailer 0" 5 minute recap at the start of episode 1.  They can't expect every D+ viewer to watch every series, especially cross-medium (like expecting cartoons to play into live action).  The motivations need to stand on their own in the series.

 

So, a viewer of the cartoons may feel like this series is delivering more...but I can say as a non-viewer of the cartoons, but a full viewer of the live actions, this is really missing on delivery.  Ashoka to me is who we see in Mando and Boba (since they are supposed to predate this series in time) - Luke didn't seem to think she needed to "trust in the force again" and she seemed pretty dang in touch in those series...

 

 

I can mostly agree with your sentiments here, I can imagine Sabine's decision being very infuriating for someone who hasn't known her before the show. The show does mention her decision later on, and tries to justify it a bit better, but I bet that would still not be enough for you.

 

Maybe an expert like @Porthos can help me out here, but I feel having characters crossover to other series outside of their own, being written and directed by different people can be challenging, especially in a case like Ahsoka's, where her live-action version first appears as a secondary character in other shows before getting her own show, so inconsistencies can happen.

 

Still, I think  there was a great attempt to show her being not in balance right from her introduction in The Mandalorian, by refusing to train Grogu because he is too emotionally attached to Mando. That is supposed to echo very clearly her relationship with Anakin and how she saw with her own eyes how the closest person to her fell to the dark side due to emotional attachments.

 

It was also well addressed in her own show that she's a conflicted person from the get go, and we once again feel the echo of her decision not to train Grogu once we found out that she started training Sabine and then gave it up half-way through,  showing that she just wasn't prepared to be a master.

 

Baylan Skoll also hints at her imbalance with the force a couple of times when they meet, most notably right before he defeats her.

 

 

All in all though, I'm just justifying something that won't really make much of a difference to your own experience. I can 100% respect that your experience with the show was just vastly different from mine, it's a pity you disliked this one quite a bit, but such is life I guess, differences of opinions are common

[Porthos]

Sorry, not really in the mood for a Patented Long Porthos Post today.  

 

I mean, ultimately a show has to stand on its own two feet, which is a refrain I've made for ages across a lot of different discussions about various shows.  But what makes something work for one person and not another is tricky even in the best of times even before we bring in factors like crossovers, and could even be down to something as vague as "vibes".

 

Like, how much of people appreciating Shin is down to thirsting after her thinking "I can fix her".  Or how much of appreciation for Baylan was due to Ray Stevenson's pathos?  How much was folks just reacting to "something off" in the show and then looking for reasons for not liking it?  Or alternatively, folks just vibing with nearly everything and then looking for reasons why it did work.

 

FWIW, I do think structurally speaking this show was milllllles ahead of both Mando S3 and Fett... But that doesn't necessarily mean folks will like it more.  To continue on from a discussion I had another thread, another great danger of serialized storytelling is if one doesn't like/care about a long form story being told, it can be a really hard hill to climb when it comes to appreciation.  Like, a well delivered Big Mac Happy Meal might still be viewed as a Big Mac Happy Meal if one was expecting something more like a Five Guys result.

 

If someone doesn't like it, then whatever nitpicks/flaws/whatever that exist in all shows can and will get magnified and pointed at.

 

Don't know how much of the above is specific to this exact discussion, since as I said, not really in the mood today.  But as General Observation?  Eh, should work.

[ZeroHour]

For what's it's worth, my husband couldn't stand Sabine from the moment she ran off with the orb thing in the first episode and we've watched all of Rebels beforehand. He thought that too much of the plot turned on her acting either selfish or like an imbecile. I don't personally agree with his take (at least not entirely) but watching Rebels isn't necessarily going to solve someone's problems with that character if they have them.

[TwoMisfits]

Okay, finished the series - the last 2 episodes were a little better, so it's above Boba, and around Obi Wan for me.

 

I still see Sabine's character as an absolute plot device from start to finish - her "turn on a dime" in the last episode was almost as unbelievable as her original motivations.  She existed in this series purely to move the plot where it needed to go.

 

I still love Hera.  If there was anyone in this show I want to follow long term, it's her.

 

I don't know how wise it was to now again "split the party" for a potential season 2 or continuation.  But I guess if they find the McGuffin in season 2 on the planet, that will get them home.

 

PS - For those who disagree on Sabine, I don't like Shin either.  My problems for her were more "was not well cast or acted" b/c she never gave me what characters in the scene said she was supposed to be giving me on screen.  

 

PPS - I LOVE Huyang - but it's not good when the droid is my 2nd favorite character:)...it's like saying R2D2 was your favorite of the original trilogy...

[Liiviig 1998]

One of the major setbacks of this show was ahsoka . Overall just dry protagonist. Thought the Anakin episode would get the best out of her but nah just found her too stoic and emotionless . Her chemistry with Sabine was just not really there .

 

Sabine introduction was cringe and annoying but onwards found her good to fine. 

 

Besides episode 1 I found rest of the episodes good to jusk ok. 

 

Script was by the numbers.

 

Some have been wanting filoni to take over starwars and lol all those vids saying " filoni saved starwars" after Anakin episode 

 

Find the whole thing of " starwars is dead" then when we get an episode with some fanservice or major camoe

" Did So and so save starwars" Just funny. As if all starwars current woes can be solved by episode or just one show.

 

There was sudden weird mantle put on this show on YouTube . " Will Ashoka save starwars" 

 

Campea and cosmic wonder did the same shit on Loki S2 too.

 

Went on a tangent  there..

 

Any way Back to filoni . Like his animated stuff but don't think live action he is quite there yet and started noticing something else ,he is getting a little obsessed with translating his animated universe into live action. Like By the end of Mando S3  just asked myself is this Mando's story or Bo katan's story. He literally chopped his story to bits and he just felt second fiddle in his show. (Darksaber plotline was absolutely nonsensical,deciding to resolve it in the last 5mins of a filler episode was just baffling).

[Arlborn]

22 minutes ago, Liiviig 1998 said:

One of the major setbacks of this show was ahsoka . Overall just dry protagonist. Thought the Anakin episode would get the best out of her but nah just found her too stoic and emotionless . Her chemistry with Sabine was just not really there .

 

Sabine introduction was cringe and annoying but onwards found her good to fine. 

 

Besides episode 1 I found rest of the episodes good to jusk ok. 

 

Script was by the numbers.

 

Some have been wanting filoni to take over starwars and lol all those vids saying " filoni saved starwars" after Anakin episode 

 

Find the whole thing of " starwars is dead" then when we get an episode with some fanservice or major camoe

" Did So and so save starwars" Just funny. As if all starwars current woes can be solved by episode or just one show.

 

There was sudden weird mantle put on this show on YouTube . " Will Ashoka save starwars" 

 

Campea and cosmic wonder did the same shit on Loki S2 too.

 

Went on a tangent  there..

 

Any way Back to filoni . Like his animated stuff but don't think live action he is quite there yet and started noticing something else ,he is getting a little obsessed with translating his animated universe into live action. Like By the end of Mando S3  just asked myself is this Mando's story or Bo katan's story. He literally chopped his story to bits and he just felt second fiddle in his show. (Darksaber plotline was absolutely nonsensical,deciding to resolve it in the last 5mins of a filler episode was just baffling).

Most of the people who were making content with questions like “will this show save the Star Wars universe?” are the same ones tearing it down right now.
 

Such is how fan centered content has developed on the internet sadly: it gives them a lot of clicks to build up something and then tear it down later, just so you can move on to the next “savior” that you’ll build up just so you can once again eventually tear it down and then… Yeah, the cycle tends to be pretty toxic, especially on YouTube.

 

 

Hard to be an optimistic fan of anything on the internet

[TwoMisfits]

1 hour ago, Arlborn said:

Most of the people who were making content with questions like “will this show save the Star Wars universe?” are the same ones tearing it down right now.
 

Such is how fan centered content has developed on the internet sadly: it gives them a lot of clicks to build up something and then tear it down later, just so you can move on to the next “savior” that you’ll build up just so you can once again eventually tear it down and then… Yeah, the cycle tends to be pretty toxic, especially on YouTube.

 

 

Hard to be an optimistic fan of anything on the internet

 

Having finished all the live action, I feel much more positive about all things Star Wars right now.  Even shows I had problems with, I liked more than movies 8/9, so I think they've gotten back to why folks love and watch Star Wars...

 

I'm optimistic for season 2 of Andor, season 4 of Mando...and I would watch more Ashoka and Obi Wan, even if I have complaints about both.  The only one I wouldn't go back to is Boba, b/c it just didn't work for me, outside of the episodes that were Mando season 2.5.  

 

PS - And having never watched the cartoons, I can say I like Bo-Katan...I REALLY liked her arc in season 3 Mando as it developed...maybe, again, not seeing animated made me more open to an arc that might seem repetitive to others...I would watch a Bo-Katan series spinning off from Mando (since he'll be in the galaxy and she'll be trying to stand up Mandalore again)...

[ZeroHour]

If you've been around long enough, you know that there's always a segment of Star Wars fandom seemingly distraught over the state of the franchise since at least the prequel era (maybe even before? I'm not old enough to say on that) that ebbs and flows depending on what the latest thing in Star Wars is. And yes, now there's a whole cottage industry of questionable people who've found ways to monetize those sentiments in a very cynical way. I think those people are best ignored.

 

The idea of any one show saving or dooming Star Wars is pretty much nonsense. Even if Ahsoka was the second coming of TV shows, it would have minimal baring on Skeleton Crew or The Acolyte.

[Torontofan]

It make sense to have anaakin, he is Asokha Master and the fanbase seems to like Anakin from Revenge of the Sith.