Elio | June 13, 2025 | Pixar | Adrian Molina (Coco) directs

[Jonwo]

Just now, AniNate said:

Pixar is sort of in a similar predicament that DreamWorks was in the mid 2010s. People just stopped showing up for their films, and the studio really had to overhaul their business model to stay alive, and has since then diversified its investments more between tv shows and movies.

 

 

It'll be interesting to see what kind of audience Win or Lose pulls, if it can end up being a kind of prestigious family friendly event series that it seems like Disney+ is lacking 

DWA's predicament was a bit more complicated in that they were an independent company and they needed every film to knock it out of the park or the share price dropped, Comcast buying them in 2016 helped a lot. Pixar being under the Disney banner means they don't need to do as much dramatically.

 

$200m is too much for an original animated film but $130-150m would be about right for Pixar and WDAS. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the budget was due to Covid and having to work remotely.

[AniNate]

I mean Toy Story 4's budget was the same. If anything I'd think working remotely might've helped reduce costs.

 

Perhaps using cheaper animation styles would help cut costs without needing to outsource or lay anyone off. That is sort of what DreamWorks decided to do.

[YM!]

2 minutes ago, AniNate said:

I mean Toy Story 4's budget was the same. If anything I'd think working remotely might've helped reduce costs.

 

Perhaps using cheaper animation styles would help cut costs without needing to outsource or lay anyone off. That is sort of what DreamWorks decided to do.

I think some of it iirc comes from bonuses and contracts too as IIRC are more similar to live action with writers and animators getting bonuses for milestones.

[toutvabien]

1 hour ago, Jonwo said:

WDAS TBF has done more adaptations in the last few years, Frozen is based on The Snow Queen and Big Hero 6 and even the originals like Moana and Encanto are basically following the Disney musical formula. 

 

Pixar may have to bite the bullet and look at adaptations which would still be technically original since it wouldn't be a sequel. Another area that hasn't been looked at is live action/animation hybrids I would love see Pixar tackling a Roger Rabbit type film.

IIRC there was once a hybrid live-action/animation film in development over at Pixar. They do have a history for having some of the most interesting cancelled/shelved projects.

[cannastop]

15 hours ago, toutvabien said:

IIRC there was once a hybrid live-action/animation film in development over at Pixar. They do have a history for having some of the most interesting cancelled/shelved projects.

Are you talking about that Where the Wild things are project with Glen Keane and John Lasseter?

[scytheavatar]

17 hours ago, Jonwo said:

$200m is too much for an original animated film but $130-150m would be about right for Pixar and WDAS. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the budget was due to Covid and having to work remotely.

 

The budget is because Pixar is finding themselves in the same situation as 2D animation in the 00's........ 3D animation has become too good, too realistic and there is no easy way to make 3D animation at Pixar's level. All the water and fire effects in Elemental require a shit load of effort to get right. Other studios are making animation for 100 million by leaning towards stylized animation strongly influenced by anime. They take shortcuts and don't animate on the detail level of Pixar. Outsourcing to other countries helps too (although some people exaggerate how cheap animation made in France is) but basically Pixar is at a crossroads right now. The animation process which they had relied for more than 2 decades is rapidly reaching its limits and Pixar has to adapt or die. 

 

Unfortunately it seems to me that people in Disney and Pixar are too hubris and prideful to see that, seeing how obsessed they are to blame Disney+ for their plight. 

[cannastop]

18 hours ago, Jonwo said:

$200m is too much for an original animated film but $130-150m would be about right for Pixar and WDAS. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the budget was due to Covid and having to work remotely.

No, they had lots of $200 million budget movies before the pandemic too

[AJG]

18 hours ago, AniNate said:

Pixar is sort of in a similar predicament that DreamWorks was in the mid 2010s. People just stopped showing up for their films, and Katzenberg left and the studio really had to overhaul their business model to stay alive, and has since then diversified its investments more between tv shows and movies.

 

It'll be interesting to see what kind of audience Win or Lose pulls, if it can end up being a kind of prestigious family friendly event series that it seems like Disney+ is oddly lacking still

 

The Dreamworks issue was far more complicated than Pixar's. 

 

Pixar makes original movies, which are unpopular right now, which also cost far too much to produce. Simple.

 

Apparently Pixar's structure is closer to that of a tech company, so reducing the budgets to something sensible would take restructuring and years to enforce.

 

"Win or Lose" is also an absolute dud. One of the last Streaming Originals announced before Disney+'s launch to be released (HBO Max is still premiering shows announced before launch). It was green-lit way before we had any idea which direction streaming was heading in. Turns out Kids TV is damn near dead, requires consistent platforming, repeat viewing, and extensive advertising. Coco-Melon and Bluey (arguably two of the few Kids TV streaming hits) cost peanuts to produce.

Disney's plan was to produce and sell animated shows from their 2 movie studios, thinking the branding and EXPENSIVE animation would create interest - turns out kids don't really care about any of that, and now Disney are stuck with a mini-series that likely cost multitudes more than it would've had they just used their traditional TV studios. 

Disney+ shifting from producing Original content aimed at families and replacing them with cheaper new imports from Disney Channel has also been very telling. 

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by AJG

[AniNate]

That's not what Puck News seemed to be indicating just this week. Apparently Pixar is also working on an Inside Out tv series and Disney wants them to expand even more into TV.

 

Also, much like with original theatrical films, Pixar hasn't even gotten a chance to grab audiences with a legit tv serial since D+ launched. The only thing they've released so far is Cars on the Road, which given how much money they'd already thrown into the franchise in short form pre D+ I can't imagine was that bad an investment.

 

There's also a pretty significant difference between the Cocomelon target audience and the Pixar target audience. It's like comparing Caillou to Avatar The Last Airbender.

Edited June 21, 2023 by AniNate

[Jonwo]

Win or Lose TBF does look great, I imagine it's an idea that lends itself to long form rather than short form.

 

 

[AJG]

1 hour ago, AniNate said:

That's not what Puck News seemed to be indicating just this week. Apparently Pixar is also working on an Inside Out tv series and Disney wants them to expand even more into TV.

 

Is this the same 'Pixar' that made Monsters At Work?

[AniNate]

4 minutes ago, AJG said:

Is this the same 'Pixar' that made Monsters At Work?

 

The exact quote:

 

"Meanwhile, Pixar has been asked to increase its output — there's a full-length TV series in the works, Win or Lose; another big-budget series that hasn't been announced but I'm told is based on Inside Out and created by Soul writer Mike Jones."

 

Now I don't know how reliable that is, but doesn't seem any more ludicrous than assuming Win or Lose is an "absolute dud" before there is even any advertising.

[YM!]

11 minutes ago, AJG said:

Is this the same 'Pixar' that made Monsters At Work?

Pixar didn’t produce Monsters at Work, Disney Television Animation did. The new rumored Inside Out series is being produced by Pixar.

[cannastop]

5 minutes ago, AniNate said:

 

The exact quote:

 

"Meanwhile, Pixar has been asked to increase its output — there's a full-length TV series in the works, Win or Lose; another big-budget series that hasn't been announced but I'm told is based on Inside Out and created by Soul writer Mike Jones."

 

Now I don't know how reliable that is, but doesn't seem any more ludicrous than assuming Win or Lose is an "absolute dud" before there is even any advertising.

I think all these mini-series are a huge waste of time and money.

Zootopia+ was a huge big bunch of nothing, for instance. I realize that was WDAS.

[AJG]

1 minute ago, cannastop said:

I think all these mini-series are a huge waste of time and money.

Zootopia+ was a huge big bunch of nothing, for instance. I realize that was WDAS.

 

Baymax also didn't put up any numbers too. 

[AniNate]

I mean it's hard to say how little value they have if they're continuing to be produced. Short form works were never a money maker even before Disney+, but they helped maintain the studios' relevance between bigger releases. Win or Lose however is a long form series so I think there's a certain expectation of more dramatic heft there. It's essentially a 2.5 hour narrative. I think it's also basically what all the Sparkshorts crew has moved on to seeing as David Lally produced both.

 

Personally I enjoyed the Baymax and Z+ stuff for what they were though.

Edited June 21, 2023 by AniNate

[Jonwo]

17 minutes ago, AniNate said:

I mean it's hard to say how little value they have if they're continuing to be produced. Short form works were never a money maker even before Disney+, but they helped maintain the studios' relevance between bigger releases. Win or Lose however is a long form series so I think there's a certain expectation of more dramatic heft there. It's essentially a 2.5 hour narrative. I think it's also basically what all the Sparkshorts crew has moved on to seeing as David Lally produced both.

 

Personally I enjoyed the Baymax and Z+ stuff for what they were though.

TV series could be a good way to test new techniques which I think the shorts did to some degree. The SparkShorts series had a lot of gems and IIRC they were produced on a limited budget. 

[Darth Lehnsherr]

Just hope Disney took some learnings from how they marketed Elemental though this one is probably an easier task to advertise. 

[BK007]

This looks like Ruby Gillman - a low budget Dreamworks concept and movie. 

[JWR]

5 hours ago, BK007 said:

This looks like Ruby Gillman - a low budget Dreamworks concept and movie. 

 

GTFO with this trolling nonsense