Weekend Thread | TAYLOR SWIFT $31M Estimate, KOTFM $23M

[ZattMurdock]

2 minutes ago, Curiouser and Curiouser said:

What did he get wrong? Also, Christopher Cote wasn't telling people not to see the movie. People are actually misinterpreting what he was even saying. Yes, it's not by Osage for Osage. It's by a white director and it speaks more to the general public. That doesn't mean he did anything "wrong" or disrespectful. 

 

I think people are doing this man a disservice by acting like he attended a premiere on a film he worked hard on and then trashed it. That's not what happened. And if it was, he shouldn't have even gone to the premiere (but he didn't do that). 

Neither I’m saying to not watch the film. What I said is that situations like this is why I’d rather watch documentaries and personal accounts of true events of marginalized people than the film itself, but I will watch the film eventually anyway. This isn’t a story close to me other than it’s familiar to what the colonizers did with the natives here in Brazil. I’d likely never hear of this story without this film.  
 

Also I think it’s crass to say that Cotes "trashed" the film he has worked hard on. He was very polite and didn’t trash it, he was just courageous enough to not pass a blank endorsement, something that would betray his own values as an Osage. It’s a great interview and I think he been outspoken about it is a good thing. It’s my understanding that he isn’t the only one talking about his conflicting feelings in the same interview there as well.

 

 

9 minutes ago, titanic2187 said:

It is funny to see armond white wrote about how woke the flower moon is while the so called “progressive” lens to argue that Scorsese isn’t right person to do a movie about Osage simply because of his ethnicity. 
 

if that is the Jane campion shouldn’t directed the power of the dog since she isn’t American and homosexual either. 
 

Whatever cote said I just have to disagree. I don’t think Scorsese being a white has made the movie any less effective or subject to sanitisation. The movie isn’t even doing white saviour plot. 

It’s a tad more delicate than that. And I’m also one to criticize when the pendulum goes too far to the left. That’s not the impression that I tried to convey and I actually think if you read what I said with good faith, you’d understand that Cotes - and other Osage that has been outspoken with their feelings in the film, like the other Osage language consultant that was with Cotes at that interview, Jennifer Carpenter - isn’t disavowing the film. He is saying that he has conflicting feelings and strong opinions on it, which isn’t neither black or white. And they have all the right. It’s the story of their people.

[TwoMisfits]

46 minutes ago, MysteryMovieMogul said:

Mission Impossible 7 went this route, too.

 

It did...most tired popcorn sequels tend to be the ones to go this route (and get the most benefit from the deal)...not Oscar bait, unless MI7 is trying to be best picture?:)

[ZattMurdock]

2 minutes ago, MysteryMovieMogul said:

I don't know if anyone follows deveryjacobs on Instagram. She was one of the female leads in the show Reservation Dogs.

 

She just posted a seven Story indictment of Killers of the Flower Moon. I don't think this movie is going to get much, if any, love from Indigenous Americans outside of the Osage Nation.

Well, I love Reservation Dogs. I want D’Pharaoh in the running for MCU’s Logan.

[Mojoguy]

White directors will always be attacked doing movies about nonwhite subjects. Especially for controversial subjects. 

 

White man's burden.

 

They forget this movie wouldn't even be funded or made without Marty.

[Curiouser and Curiouser]

9 minutes ago, ZattMurdock said:

Neither I’m saying to not watch the film. What I said is that situations like this is why I’d rather watch documentaries and personal accounts of true events of marginalized people than the film itself, but I will watch the film eventually anyway. This isn’t a story close to me other than it’s familiar to what the colonizers did with the natives here in Brazil. I’d likely never hear of this story without this film.  
 

Also I think it’s crass to say that Cotes "trashed" the film he has worked hard on. He was very polite and didn’t trash it, he was just courageous enough to not pass a blank endorsement, something that would betray his own values as an Osage. It’s a great interview and I think he been outspoken about it is a good thing. It’s my understanding that he isn’t the only one talking about his conflicting feelings in the same interview there as well.

 

 

It’s a tad more delicate than that. And I’m also one to criticize when the pendulum goes too far to the left. That’s not the impression that I tried to convey and I actually think if you read what I said with good faith, you’d understand that Cotes - and other Osage that has been outspoken with their feelings in the film, like the other Osage language consultant that was with Cotes at that interview, Jennifer Carpenter - isn’t disavowing the film. He is saying that he has conflicting feelings and strong opinions on it, which isn’t neither black or white. And they have all the right. It’s the story of their people.

I still find going to a premiere and being remotely negative to be kind of weird. Of course he's entitled to his opinion, I just think it's rude. But all of that aside, I just do think his words are being deliberately twisted to make it sound like he's making some sort of indictment on the film overall. It was more just his musings on it. The bummer is the entire premiere became about him, and that isn't really fair to everyone else who worked on it. And the actors can't respond or anything. 

 

There are people related to Mollie and Ernest who firmly believe there was real feeling between the couple. So for Cote to just say there's not love just abuse and be critical of portraying any genuine feeling felt a little out of bounds to me, personally. That's not his family's story. The movie doesn't take a remotely sympathetic or even empathetic view of Ernest. I just simply do not understand why portraying things as they actually happened is somehow disrespectful. 

 

Overall though, I think he is of course more than entitled to discuss his feelings on the film as an Osage and someone who worked on it. Just wish the forum he picked was maybe a little better and there was time for a real discussion. 

Edited October 23, 2023 by Curiouser and Curiouser

[MysteryMovieMogul]

7 minutes ago, Mojoguy said:

They forget this movie wouldn't even be funded or made without Marty.

And my point is, the reaction I posted from an Indigenous actor in Reservation Dogs shows there are some who wish this film hadn't been made.

[Taylor89]

17 minutes ago, vale9001 said:

final for TET 33.2M. Sat and Sun numbers bettern than expected and under 60% drops.

Still no news about Scorsese final. 

 

Can era reach 200m dom?

[ThomasNicole]

There’s plenty of great texts about indigenous people liking the movie. 
 

Of course it’ll hit them in ways only them can understand so it’s normal to see some polarizing responses and they’re all valid. 
 

But picking a response and post here saying the movie won’t find any love beyond the Osages (that worked on the movie, which only makes the phrasing weird) because of a bad response is also a form of dehumanizing people.

 

Obviously not saying this is on purpose but it’s common for people to take a few opinions from minorities and present them as the overall feelings of the said so minority, almost as if there’s no plurality of thinking there. 
 

The truth is that the plurality exists, you can find very different opinions about it, you just have to search. Maybe there’s just no interest in searching other types of responses, idk.

Edited October 23, 2023 by ThomasNicole

[Curiouser and Curiouser]

1 minute ago, MysteryMovieMogul said:

And my point is, the reaction I posted from an Indigenous actor in Reservation Dogs shows there are some who wish this film hadn't been made.

And I find that a little nuts, personally. No one even knew this horrible thing happened. Now they do. 

[ZattMurdock]

1 minute ago, Curiouser and Curiouser said:

I still find going to a premiere and being remotely negative to be kind of weird. Of course he's entitled to his opinion, I just think it's rude. But all of that aside, I just do think his words are being deliberately twisted to make it sound like he's making some sort of indictment on the film overall. It was more just his musings on it. 

 

There are people related to Mollie and Ernest who firmly believe there was real feeling between the couple. So for Cote to just say there's not love just abuse and be critical of portraying any genuine feeling felt a little out of bounds to me, personally. The movie doesn't take a remotely sympathetic or even empathetic view of Ernest. I just simply do not understand why portraying things as they actually happened is somehow disrespectful. 

So Cotes and Carpenter weren’t courteous with the way an white legendary director depicted their people. How savage and rude of them. They should keep to themselves and just take it and only be complimentary and thankful for the film. If this isn’t proof that there is a lot of white savior shit going on with this film with whites patting themselves on the back and wanting the people that are actually subject to this story where they were brutally murdered to just keep quiet and not be "unpolite", then I don’t know what to tell you.

 

And it’s quite ironic that Devery Jacobs posted this 50 minutes ago, I’m just going to post this part in order to avoid spoilers where she goes in detail, but this is the last thing I’m going to say on this matter:

 

[MysteryMovieMogul]

Just now, ZattMurdock said:

So Cotes and Carpenter weren’t courteous with the way an white legendary director depicted their people. How savage and rude of them. They should keep to themselves and just take it and only be complimentary and thankful for the film. If this isn’t proof that there is a lot of white savior shit going on with this film with whites patting themselves on the back and wanting the people that are actually subject to this story where they were brutally murdered to just keep quiet and not be "unpolite", then I don’t know what to tell you.

 

And it’s quite ironic that Devery Jacobs posted this 50 minutes ago, I’m just going to post this part in order to avoid spoilers where she goes in detail, but this is the last thing I’m going to say on this matter:

 

That parenthetical at the bottom. I have to applaud her for going there. I know people will be upset reading that, but she's 100% correct.

[Curiouser and Curiouser]

Just now, ZattMurdock said:

So Cotes and Carpenter weren’t courteous with the way an white legendary director depicted their people. How savage and rude of them. They should keep to themselves and just take it and only be complimentary and thankful for the film. If this isn’t proof that there is a lot of white savior shit going on with this film with whites patting themselves on the back and wanting the people that are actually subject to this story where they were brutally murdered to just keep quiet and not be "unpolite", then I don’t know what to tell you.

 

And it’s quite ironic that Devery Jacobs posted this 50 minutes ago, I’m just going to post this part in order to avoid spoilers where she goes in detail, but this is the last thing I’m going to say on this matter:

 

They can think what they want and be as vocal as they want in their own time. They were there to promote the movie. Why go at all? 

 

Again, I don't even think their opinions are wrong or invalid. How can I? It's their opinion. Just like I have my opinion about stuff. You typically don't see people dressing up and going on a promotional circuit and being negative is all. It's weird. 

[vale9001]

28 minutes ago, MysteryMovieMogul said:

I don't know if anyone follows deveryjacobs on Instagram. She was one of the female leads in the show Reservation Dogs.

 

She just posted a seven Story indictment of Killers of the Flower Moon. I don't think this movie is going to get much, if any, love from Indigenous Americans outside of the Osage Nation.

 

 

can i say i don't understand this. I never heard jews complaining holocaust movies are too painful or explicit, actually they have been "praised" with any other form of art like literature etc.. for being an essential way to let people really know what happened changing the perception of these crimes with an enduring effect on the consciences.

 

There is a reason videomakers and journalists go to the war zones and they just don't stay at home with an "i have a friend and a source there, he told me at the phone this is happening". Showing stories is the best way to get people interested and really involved in these stories.

Edited October 23, 2023 by vale9001

[Curiouser and Curiouser]

Just now, MysteryMovieMogul said:

That parenthetical at the bottom. I have to applaud her for going there. I know people will be upset reading that, but she's 100% correct.

This is the story of the Osage Murders. How do you tell a story without murder? 

 

Indigenous women are killed and go missing nowadays at a ridiculously high rate and barely anyone pays attention. This film underscores that sad reality. It draws attention. I just simply don't get how any version of this story is told that doesn't include murder. I felt the Osage characters were treated with a lot of dignity by Scorsese. 

[titanic2187]

21 minutes ago, MysteryMovieMogul said:

I don't know if anyone follows deveryjacobs on Instagram. She was one of the female leads in the show Reservation Dogs.

 

She just posted a seven Story indictment of Killers of the Flower Moon. I don't think this movie is going to get much, if any, love from Indigenous Americans outside of the Osage Nation.

So what is their wish? Continue to make a socially irrelevant movie and have thousands of people paying to tribute to a fictional death of tony stark on Oct 17 while the there are thousands of real people drying in their reality? 

[MysteryMovieMogul]

1 minute ago, Curiouser and Curiouser said:

This is the story of the Osage Murders. How do you tell a story without murder? 

 

Indigenous women are killed and go missing nowadays at a ridiculously high rate and barely anyone pays attention. This film underscores that sad reality. It draws attention. I just simply don't get how any version of this story is told that doesn't include murder. I felt the Osage characters were treated with a lot of dignity by Scorsese. 

The real question is, why does the best mainstream representation of the Osage Nation also have to be about their murder and exploitation?

 

Someone above mentioned Jewish people not getting upset about Holocaust films, but if that was the only mainstream representation of Jewish people in theaters, they'd be upset.

[ZattMurdock]

1 minute ago, vale9001 said:

 

 

can i say i don't understand this. I never heard jews complaining holocaust movies are too painful or explicit, actually they have been "praised" with any other form of art as literature etc.. for being an essential way to let people really know what happened changin the perception of these crime with an enduring effect on the consciences.

 

There is a reason videomakers and journalists go to the war zones and they just don't stay at home with an "i have a friend and a source there, he told me at the phone this is happening". Showing stories is the best way to get people interested and really involved in these stories.

Spielberg is Jewish. He made one of the most revered films about the Holocaust. I’m not sure what Holocaust films you are talking about, but yeah Jewish people are entitled to correct films that misrepresent them and dehumanize them, same for Palestinians, Natives or every single targeted minority. Not sure what you mean here, neither how could anyone help you understand that. It’s a very simple concept.

[Curiouser and Curiouser]

Just now, MysteryMovieMogul said:

The real question is, why does the best mainstream representation of the Osage Nation also have to be about their murder and exploitation?

 

Someone above mentioned Jewish people not getting upset about Holocaust films, but if that was the only mainstream representation of Jewish people in theaters, they'd be upset.

It doesn't have to be, but that is what THIS story is about. It is about a historical event. 

[CoolioD1]

I have mixed feelings on the way the native americans are portrayed in the film but the film, and the ending are definitely encouraging conversation in a way I don't think Scorsese would be upset about the dude criticizing his movie at the premiere. 

 

And ultimately I think people who wanna slam the film can easily find indigenous folks criticizing it and people who love it can only pay attention to the ones who praise it. there hasn't been a monolithic response. It would be a shame to see their words just used by others as ammo for internet arguments.

[MysteryMovieMogul]

2 minutes ago, CoolioD1 said:

And ultimately I think people who wanna slam the film can easily find indigenous folks criticizing it and people who love it can only pay attention to the ones who praise it.

I don't think people should avoid seeing the film for this reason, but I can easily see this hurting the film's award chances.