The Marvel / MCU Thread || From Blade to Secret Wars, All Things Marvel!

[Daxtreme]

I have many problems with the show Ms.Marvel but Iman Vellani isn't one of them. She was a great lead character.

[Kon]

17 minutes ago, Daxtreme said:

I have many problems with the show Ms.Marvel but Iman Vellani isn't one of them. She was a great lead character.

 

The issue is Ms Marvel (Iman Vellani) is currently being associated with her show and The Marvels. That isn't really good for her popularity.

 

Honestly, I don't think Young Avengers is a so bad idea, but I think they really need to add other characters who could attract a bigger audience (the three current members didn't work for that). Maybe teens/YA Tommy and Billy could help.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Kon

[WittyUsername]

It’s easy to see why the MCU would want to include Kamala Khan. Outside of Miles Morales, she’s easily the most popular character Marvel introduced in the 2010s, and on paper, she should be the perfect superhero for a Gen Z /Gen Alpha audience. I don’t think introducing her in a Disney+ show was such a good idea though. 

Edited November 17, 2023 by WittyUsername

[DInky]

29 minutes ago, Kon said:

 

The issue is Ms Marvel (Iman Vellani) is currently being associated with her show and The Marvels. That isn't really good for her popularity.

 

Honestly, I don't think Young Avengers is a so bad idea, but I think they really need to add other characters who could attract a bigger audience (the three current members didn't work for that). Maybe teens/YA Tommy and Billy could help.

 

 

They're even less known than Ms. marvel, Kate Bishop or Cassie Lang though. I'm honestly worried that Gen Z apparently didn't show up for The Marvels. Could mean that all these legacy characters aimed at Gen Z are DOA.

 

[TwoMisfits]

11 minutes ago, WittyUsername said:

It’s easy to see why the MCU would want to include Kamala Khan. Outside of Miles Morales, she’s easily the most popular character Marvel introduced in the 2010s, and on paper, she should be the perfect superhero for a Gen Z /Gen Alpha audience. I don’t think introducing her in a Disney+ show was such a good idea though. 

 

But they may have no interest...

 

75% of opening night audiences for Hunger Games prequel was 18-34.

80% of FNAF was under 25.

34% of Marvels was under 25.

 

One of these things is not like the others.  The MCU has aged with its audience.  Trying to take for granted its current audience to find the FNAF/Hunger Games type audience failed catastrophically.  It was a needle it failed to thread on both sides.

 

Like the James Bond franchise, the MCU may not be motivating the under 25 to ever go - it's not their franchise.  So, going for characters to appeal to them, and tossing the 25+ group who you have appealed to was a big (probably job-firing) blunder.

 

Miles has worked b/c he's his own thing in his own movie world - the 25 and under group can enjoy him while knowing nothing else (as can the 25+).  By having a universe, the MCU has now lost the youngest groups b/c they never tried to join up midstream, and now like a comic 50 issues in, no one wants to catch up.

[Kon]

15 minutes ago, DInky said:

 

 

They're even less known than Ms. marvel, Kate Bishop or Cassie Lang though. I'm honestly worried that Gen Z apparently didn't show up for The Marvels. Could mean that all these legacy characters aimed at Gen Z are DOA.

 

I know they're less known characters, but this could be a benefit on this situation.

 

The current three characters announced for Young Avengers aren't working to attract audience, then the best opportunity for Young Avengers is other characters being more popular at that.

 

Billy and Tommy will be "new characters", but they are also Wanda's sons, so this could help on their reception.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Kon

[DInky]

4 minutes ago, TwoMisfits said:

 

But they may have no interest...

 

75% of opening night audiences for Hunger Games prequel was 18-34.

80% of FNAF was under 25.

34% of Marvels was under 25.

 

One of these things is not like the others.  The MCU has aged with its audience.  Trying to take for granted its current audience to find the FNAF/Hunger Games type audience failed catastrophically.  It was a needle it failed to thread on both sides.

 

Like the James Bond franchise, the MCU may not be motivating the under 25 to ever go - it's not their franchise.  So, going for characters to appeal to them, and tossing the 25+ group who you have appealed to was a big (probably job-firing) blunder.

 

Miles has worked b/c he's his own thing in his own movie world - the 25 and under group can enjoy him while knowing nothing else (as can the 25+).  By having a universe, the MCU has now lost the youngest groups b/c they never tried to join up midstream, and now like a comic 50 issues in, no one wants to catch up.

'

Agree with everything here. MCU really has a much higher barrier to entry nowadays. Post-Endgame MCU has also become more like the comics in that you kind of need a viewing guide. Watching the movies and shows in release or even chronological order doesn't make much sense anymore. I think in the future we'll see guides like this:

 

1. Loki -> Ant-Man and the Wasp Quantumania
2. WandaVision ->
2.1 Ms. Marvel -> The Marvels
2.2 Spider-Man No Way Home -> Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness -> Agatha The Darkhold Diaries -> VisionQuest
3. The Falcon and The Winter Soldier -> Black Widow -> Hawkeye ->
3.1 She-Hulk -> Echo -> Daredevil Born Again
3.2 Captain America Brave New World -> Thunderbolts
4. Black Panther Wakanda Forever -> Secret Invasion -> Ironheart -> Armor Wars
5. Thor Love and Thunder -> Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday Special -> Guardians of the Galaxy 3

 

In order to have a somewhat coherent experience you need to follow groups of characters and their arcs instead of using release or chronological order. The fact that it has gotten this complicated is a real problem.

[cooldude97]

God if those Spider-man 4 is another multiverse movie involving the shit SCUM movies rumors are true I'm legit expecting spider-man 3/ amazing spider-man 2 redux

[DInky]

29 minutes ago, Kon said:

I know they're less known characters, but this could be a benefit on this situation.

 

The current three characters announced for Young Avengers aren't working to attract audience, then the best opportunity for Young Avengers is other characters being more popular at that.

 

Billy and Tommy will be "new characters", but they are also Wanda's sons, so this could help on their reception.

 

 

They're inherently super-convoluted characters. Especially when we consider how the MCU is handling them. The logical thing, in my opinion, would have been to bring them into the MCU in Multiverse of Madness but no. Instead, the road to bringing them into the MCU might look something like this:

 

WandaVision -> Agatha -> VisionQuest -> The Children's Crusade (?). They basically need to turn White Vision into the real Vision again, they need to bring back Wanda and only then bring in the kids.

Edited November 17, 2023 by DInky

[TheFlatLannister]

 

 

"What was he cooking" 

[Bob Train]

Just now, TheFlatLannister said:

 

 

"What was he cooking" 

Sony-verse >>> MCU

[TheFlatLannister]

13 minutes ago, Bob Train said:

Sony-verse >>> MCU

Not even close. Sony-verse has made no great live action film. SSU and MCU becoming one may actually lead to the collapse of the MCU

[emoviefan]

2 hours ago, Bob Train said:

Sony-verse >>> MCU

You can not serious with that. 

[Sckathian]

I mean I assume this just means Venom in Spidey 4 which I think we all saw coming.

[PlatnumRoyce]

5 hours ago, TwoMisfits said:

 

But they may have no interest...

 

75% of opening night audiences for Hunger Games prequel was 18-34.

80% of FNAF was under 25.

34% of Marvels was under 25.

 

One of these things is not like the others.  The MCU has aged with its audience.  Trying to take for granted its current audience to find the FNAF/Hunger Games type audience failed catastrophically.  It was a needle it failed to thread on both sides.

Yeah...it's FNAF which is an absolutely insane number! 

Hunger Games had a ~50% Under 25 age number (36% female/14% male)

 

This list of comps is bad because for PG-13 films, you can, on average simplify it to be ~20% of the audience <18, 20% 18-24 and 20% 25-34. It's "really" more like 19/25/22 but that's close enough for hyper simple estimates.

 

So hyper simple adjustment compares HG:Prequel's u-35 number of 75% to ~56% for the Marvels and 120% for FNAF. It's really the latter which makes no possible sense not the Marvels' estimate. 

Ant-Man: Quantumania = 64% 18-34

 

 

[robertman2]

The Venom movies are trash, and I am but a raccoon.

[Reed121]

21 hours ago, YM! said:

A lot of y'all forget it wasn't just the family mourning Chadwick but Coogler and the crew too. I think people forget how closely unit the crew was even more so than a usual Marvel movie, that Coogler almost stepped down. Ironheart, the Namor stuff, the Queen dying - all of that was in the original draft. They made the decision to have Shuri as the lead and I still think it was the right one because even with a recast (I mean it's obviously coming within the next few years through multiversal bullshit either his son or a variant), you’d still get more or less the same drop.

Were they forced them to make the movie while they were mourning. The movie could have/should have been delayed.

20 hours ago, WittyUsername said:

I don’t understand the argument that recasting T’Challa would’ve been preferable to making Shuri the new Black Panther. A large part of the reason people gravitated towards the character was because of Chadwick Boseman’s portrayal. Getting a different person to play him would only be distracting, and would carry an unnecessary stigma for whoever the new actor would be, especially with how close the cast and crew apparently were to Boseman.

 

On another note, Mads Mikkelson as Doctor Doom would not only be incredibly boring, but also painfully desperate. Is Marvel forgetting that he already played a villain in the MCU? 

Delay the movie, set it during the blip, put him in the chamber they put Bucky in, have him captured, lost in space etc. There were many ways to avoid killing the character. They wouldn’t kill Peter Parker.  The Fast and Furious franchise managed to keep Brian alive after Paul Walker’s death. It doesn’t even make sense that some mystery disease killed him.

 

The decisions they made with Wakanda Forever (killing T’Challa, using the movie to set up a movie, a TV show and characters not related to Black Panther) is in my opinion a reflection of the choices that has put the MCU in the state it’s in.

 

 

[Zakiyyah6]

I don't get why they had to make Wakanda Forever when they did as well. What was the rush outside of quick profits for the studio? They could have waited and mourned and then decided whether it was smart to kill off the most important black character in the MCU. I still don't agree with the decision. Chadwick death was a horrible tragedy, I even cried but T'Challa is bigger than any actor. All of these characters are.

 

I hate when people say retire characters that have existed for decades because an actor died. I remember people saying that the Joker should be retired from live action movies after Heath Ledger died. The Joker had been around for like 65-70 or so years when Ledger died and his death had nothing to do with the role and yet the character should cease to exist, why? Anyway, why was Thunderbolt Ross recast? Did William Hurt's death mean nothing? Marvel are really inconsistent on who they recast. 

[WittyUsername]

3 minutes ago, Zakiyyah6 said:

I don't get why they had to make Wakanda Forever when they did as well. What was the rush outside of quick profits for the studio? They could have waited and mourned and then decided whether it was smart to kill off the most important black character in the MCU. I still don't agree with the decision. Chadwick death was a horrible tragedy, I even cried but T'Challa is bigger than any actor. All of these characters are.

 

I hate when people say retire characters that have existed for decades because an actor died. I remember people saying that the Joker should be retired from live action movies after Heath Ledger died. The Joker had been around for like 65-70 or so years when Ledger died and his death had nothing to do with the role and yet the character should cease to exist, why? Anyway, why was Thunderbolt Ross recast? Did William Hurt's death mean nothing? Marvel are really inconsistent on who they recast. 

William Hurt’s portrayal as General Ross was nowhere near as beloved or iconic as Chadwick Boseman as Black Panther, and Ross is a supporting character anyway, so recasting him wouldn’t be nearly as distracting. There’s no comparison. 
 

Since you brought up the Joker, Nolan made the decision to not bring back the character after Heath Ledger’s death, much like how Marvel chose not to recast Chadwick Boseman. 

[DInky]

8 minutes ago, Zakiyyah6 said:

I don't get why they had to make Wakanda Forever when they did as well. What was the rush outside of quick profits for the studio? They could have waited and mourned and then decided whether it was smart to kill off the most important black character in the MCU. I still don't agree with the decision. Chadwick death was a horrible tragedy, I even cried but T'Challa is bigger than any actor. All of these characters are.

 

I hate when people say retire characters that have existed for decades because an actor died. I remember people saying that the Joker should be retired from live action movies after Heath Ledger died. The Joker had been around for like 65-70 or so years when Ledger died and his death had nothing to do with the role and yet the character should cease to exist, why? Anyway, why was Thunderbolt Ross recast? Did William Hurt's death mean nothing? Marvel are really inconsistent on who they recast. 

 

What they did with Wakanda Forever is like the biggest self-inflicted wound. The character is simply more important than any actor and based on what we've heard Boseman understood this as well.