The Magnificent Seven | 9/23/16 | Reviews coming in - not exactly Magnificent

[Fancyarcher]

I'd say Troy was his worst when it came to blatant rehashing, but that score was a real rush job anyway, so I can see forgive him it a bit. It's things like hearing the Star Trek II theme in TASM score (which is a score that I actually like), and hearing the danger motif in half of Avatar, that really bug me.

 

People may say that JW's themes for Star Wars, Superman, and Raiders of The Lost Ark are very similar, to the point that you could get any mixed up if you tried to whistle them, but the difference between those themes, and Horner's work is that those are just built on the same idea of being a march, whereas a lot of Horner's theme are more obviously the same.

 

I like Horner's work a lot, but yeah I can agree with, and get what your saying. Still sad that he isn't composing anymore.

Edited September 24, 2016 by Daniel Dylan Davis

[Jay Beezy]

1 hour ago, Daniel Dylan Davis said:

I'd say Troy was his worst when it came to blatant rehashing, but that score was a real rush job anyway, so I can see forgive him it a bit. It's things like hearing the Star Trek II theme in TASM score (which is a score that I actually like), and hearing the danger motif in half of Avatar, that really bug me.

 

People may say that JW's themes for Star Wars, Superman, and Raiders of The Lost Ark are very similar, to the point that you could get any mixed up if you tried to whistle them, but the difference between those themes, and Horner's work is that those are just built on the same idea of being a march, whereas a lot of Horner's theme are more obviously the same.

 

I like Horner's work a lot, but yeah I can agree with, and get what your saying. Still sad that he isn't composing anymore.

 

Troy had the danger motif as well. 

 

I also noticed in Avatar that his primary theme starts off almost sounding like the main theme in Titanic. Like the chorus to Leona Lewis' I See You starts off briefly sounding like Celine Dion's My Heart Will Go On.

 

That's another trademark we won't get anymore. He brings on singers to write and sing songs using his themes. Although I'm happy this didn't follow in those footsteps.

 

I'm curious as to who James Cameron will get for the Avatar sequels.

[4815162342]

4 minutes ago, Jay Beezy said:

 

Troy had the danger motif as well. 

 

Oh yeah, it had it front and center.

 

 

[Goffe]

I actually liked the danger motif better in Avatar than in Star Trek

[Fancyarcher]

19 minutes ago, Jay Beezy said:

 

Troy had the danger motif as well. 

 

I also noticed in Avatar that his primary theme starts off almost sounding like the main theme in Titanic. Like the chorus to Leona Lewis' I See You starts off briefly sounding like Celine Dion's My Heart Will Go On.

 

That's another trademark we won't get anymore. He brings on singers to write and sing songs using his themes. Although I'm happy this didn't follow in those footsteps.

 

I'm curious as to who James Cameron will get for the Avatar sequels.

 

Most of his action or adventure scores primarily use the danger motif, so that's not really no surprise. 

 

I think the Titanic / Avatar theme might have been an intentional homage, given that he was working with James Cameron again.

 

Songs being woven into scores as instrumental themes and vice-versa with songs being based off score themes, are pretty much dead nowadays, which is a bit of a shame. They were very a common thing in the 60's, and 70's, and less-so in the 80's, and 90's. Aside from Horner, the last composers I can really think of who really did something like that were Harold Faltermeyer (Beverly Hills Cop 1 and 2, Top Gun), and Michael Kamen (Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves, Lethal Weapon 3). David Arnold tried to do something similar with his Bond scores (Bond scores being based off the title themes is a staple of the series), but half the time he wasn't allowed to write the melody to the theme or it got replaced, and Silvestri wrote a lot of songs for those Zemeckis mo-cap films, but those are the few exceptions I can think of. Most of the time the melodies are written by the people working on the songs themselves (the songwriter or the singer), not the composer who writes the music.

 

As for who scores Avatar 2. They should probably get someone from the older guard or someone who can at least do great melodies (Newton Howard, Silvestri, Giacchino, and Desplat would all good / interesting choices). I'm just hope that Cameron doesn't get a Zimmer clone. That would likely be all kinds of bad.

Edited September 25, 2016 by Daniel Dylan Davis

[4815162342]

2 minutes ago, Daniel Dylan Davis said:

 

Most of his action or adventure scores primarily use the danger motif, so that's not really no surprise. 

 

I think the Titanic / Avatar theme might have been an intentional homage, given that he was working with James Cameron again.

 

Songs being woven into scores as instrumental themes and vice-versa with songs being based off score themes, are pretty much dead nowadays, which is a bit of a shame. They were very a common thing in the 60's, and 70's, and less-so in the 80's, and 90's. Aside from Horner, the last composers I can really think of who really did something like that were Harold Faltermeyer (Beverly Hills Cop 1 and 2, Top Gun), and Michael Kamen (Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves, Lethal Weapon 2). David Arnold tried to do something similar with his Bond scores (Bond scores being based off the title themes is a staple of the series), but half the time he wasn't allowed to write the melody to the theme or it got replaced, and Silvestri wrote a lot of songs for those Zemeckis mo-cap films, but those are the few exceptions I can think of. Most of the time the melodies are written by the people working on the songs themselves (the songwriter or the singer), not the composer who writes the music.

 

As for who scores Avatar 2. They should probably get someone from the older guard or someone who can at least do great melodies (Newton Howard, Silvestri, Giacchino, and Desplat would all good / interesting choices). I'm just hope that Cameron doesn't get a Zimmer clone. That would be kinda bad.

 

Speaking of Arnold, Casino Royale is a great example of a strong integration between song melody and score.

 

Someone from the Zimmer school for Avatar 2 would make no sense, since it would be a huge tonal contradiction to the lush Pandora tones of the first film.

Edited September 25, 2016 by 4815162342

[4815162342]

3 minutes ago, Goffe said:

I actually liked the danger motif better in Avatar than in Star Trek

 

 

[Fancyarcher]

11 minutes ago, 4815162342 said:

 

Speaking of Arnold, Casino Royale is a great example of a strong integration between song melody and score.

 

Someone from the Zimmer school for Avatar 2 would make no sense, since it would be a huge tonal contradiction to the lush Pandora tones of the first film.

 

It is. It's probably the best of Arnold's Bond scores in that regard, or at least of the three songs he was actually allowed to write. In particular I love how it's used in the film when Bond is in the casino for the first time. It's also the last notable song-score that I can think of.

 

I wouldn't want someone from the Zimmer style of composer, but you never know, Cameron might go insane or something, and consider one of Zimmer's protege to score Avatar 2. Time could end up replacing Horner's danger motif (ah!)

Edited September 25, 2016 by Daniel Dylan Davis

[Jay Beezy]

12 minutes ago, Daniel Dylan Davis said:

 

Most of his action or adventure scores primarily use the danger motif, so that's not really no surprise. 

 

I think the Titanic / Avatar theme might have been an intentional homage, given that he was working with James Cameron again.

 

Songs being woven into scores as instrumental themes and vice-versa with songs being based off score themes, are pretty much dead nowadays, which is a bit of a shame. They were very a common thing in the 60's, and 70's, and less-so in the 80's, and 90's. Aside from Horner, the last composers I can really think of who really did something like that were Harold Faltermeyer (Beverly Hills Cop 1 and 2, Top Gun), and Michael Kamen (Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves, Lethal Weapon 3). David Arnold tried to do something similar with his Bond scores (Bond scores being based off the title themes is a staple of the series), but half the time he wasn't allowed to write the melody to the theme or it got replaced, and Silvestri wrote a lot of songs for those Zemeckis mo-cap films, but those are the few exceptions I can think of. Most of the time the melodies are written by the people working on the songs themselves (the songwriter or the singer), not the composer who writes the music.

 

As for who scores Avatar 2. They should probably get someone from the older guard or someone who can at least do great melodies (Newton Howard, Silvestri, Giacchino, and Desplat would all good / interesting choices). I'm just hope that Cameron doesn't get a Zimmer clone. That would likely be all kinds of bad.

 

I'm not sure how Horner's score/song elements worked, but when it came to his later scores, it felt like the songs were just shoehorned in because it's his trademark.

 

It's good Magnificent Seven didn't have a song based off a theme. I don't know what could have fit this one.

[Fancyarcher]

3 minutes ago, Jay Beezy said:

 

I'm not sure how Horner's score/song elements worked, but when it came to his later scores, it felt like the songs were just shoehorned in because it's his trademark.

 

It's good Magnificent Seven didn't have a song based off a theme. I don't know what could have fit this one.

 

In scores like An American Tail, The Land Before Time, and Titanic, the songs were incorporated into the score, and added into specific moments. When it came to something like Avatar though, the score was written, and then the song was kinda added in at the last minute, so that's why it feels a bit more out of place.

 

I'm not even sure that Magnificent Seven could have a song theme. Now I'm just imaging a crazy country ballet about The Magnificent Seven played to the actual iconic theme.

[Goffe]

26 minutes ago, Daniel Dylan Davis said:

I think the Titanic / Avatar theme might have been an intentional homage, given that he was working with James Cameron again.

 

Quote

Speaking of the danger motif and AVATAR : a french magazine "Mad Movies" I usually read , release a special one on James Cameron including an interview with James Horner.
the french interviewer asks Horner about this famous "four notes motif" and horner answers : "James (Cameron) used it as parts on the temporary score and thought it worked well, so I placed the motif in some moments of the movie"
well it's Cameron fault in this case 

 

http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?forumID=1&pageID=2&threadID=64745&archive=0

[Fancyarcher]

9 minutes ago, Goffe said:

http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?forumID=1&pageID=2&threadID=64745&archive=0

 

I'll give Horner the pass there, since Cameron's infamous for his strict music rules, but he still used the danger motif in the good majority of his scores anyway. Think most of his work is great regardless.

Edited September 25, 2016 by Daniel Dylan Davis

[Goffe]

On Arnold's work for Bond, The World is not Enough was most definitely his only misstep in the franchise.

[Goffe]

Also, John Powell was a Hans Zimmer protege.

 

Not everyone on RC is a Henry Jackman or Junkie XL.

[Jay Beezy]

25 minutes ago, Daniel Dylan Davis said:

 

In scores like An American Tail, The Land Before Time, and Titanic, the songs were incorporated into the score, and added into specific moments. When it came to something like Avatar though, the score was written, and then the song was kinda added in at the last minute, so that's why it feels a bit more out of place.

 

I'm not even sure that Magnificent Seven could have a song theme. Now I'm just imaging a crazy country ballet about The Magnificent Seven played to the actual iconic theme.

 

The Avatar song got additional mockery for having Leona Lewis sing it.

[Fancyarcher]

4 minutes ago, Goffe said:

Also, John Powell was a Hans Zimmer protege.

 

Not everyone on RC is a Henry Jackman or Junkie XL.

 

John Powell is basically the exception, and even then he started out doing Zimmer style music like in Face / Off.

 

Zimmer protege's can develop and get more orchestration skills like Powell, and even Harry Gregson Williams to a lesser extent, but many of them seem to be pleased enough to copy Zimmer's style, like Jablonsky, Jackman, and Junkie XL and so forth. This can be good or bad depending on your preference for music of course.

[MrPink]

I love the danger motif! Maybe because I love Troy so much.

 

 

[4815162342]

Just now, MrPink said:

I love the danger motif! Maybe because I love Troy so much.

 

 

 

Mr Pink: Confirmed drinker of sacks of wine.

[Fancyarcher]

15 minutes ago, Goffe said:

On Arnold's work for Bond, The World is not Enough was most definitely his only misstep in the franchise.

 

I've gone to some Bond forum, and a lot of fans have issues with how samesy some of his scores sounds, I can see that, but personally I think his work is pretty good overall. Quantum's score, particularly the track Night At The Opera was one of the better aspects about that film.

Edited September 25, 2016 by Daniel Dylan Davis

[Fancyarcher]

12 minutes ago, Jay Beezy said:

 

The Avatar song got additional mockery for having Leona Lewis sing it.

 

I don't even think I See You was able to replicate the parodies and joke references that Celine Dion got for singing My Heart Will Go On.