The Dark Knight Rises

[rockNrollaDIM]

Anyway, speaking of Alfred and meeting at Walmart etc, I thought that Alfred leaving over the argument about Rachel`s letter was just as bad as Frodo sending Sam away and Sam actually leaving. Talk about waaaaaaaaaaay out of character shit that had no support in anything that happened prior to WTF splits. Just bad drama for the sake of drama.

I'd have to agree with this too. Everyone is raving about Michael Cain's performance, but I don't know, I just found it awkward and out of place. "I'm sorry-- I failled you!" and all the melodrama about burning of the letter, it was a little too much man-crying for me. Male emotion can be incredible if it works- see JGL meltdown and hospital scene in 50/50- but here it seemed very forced.

[Gopher]

Rarely do I watch movies on a visceral level the second time around. Usually my brain is wired to pick out the stuff that worked and didn't work so I can articulate my thoughts on the film better. But with TDKR I was a more glued to the screen than I was the first time. Which is a real testament for a 164 minute movie. We all had a nice discussion when Prometheus came out (which unlike TDKR is an inherently flawed movie) about at what point do flaws take away from the viewing experience of a movie. I'm not debating the fact that TDKR has some story inconsistancies because it does (so do BB/TDK/Inception but that's another story). But a good movie is more than the sum of its parts. And what TDKR does well (characters, action, raw emotion, visuals, a kickass conclusion to this trilogy) it does REALLY WELL in my opinion. You'll just have to ask yourself what flaws really took you out of the movie. For me? Talia's death, the shot of Bane dying, and that's pretty much it.

[lab276]

My biggest gripe, I guess, was the timeline. And I'm not talking about sudden sunset at stock-heist. Just the way time went by so quick. It was five months, then all of a sudden there's 29 days left, and in the next scene the bomb goes off in approximately 12 hours. What the hell?? It just seemed like he didn't care to set that sensibly, and also I found it hard to believe that Gordon, Blake etc could freely run around the city that whole time plotting against Bane's people without detection. In broad daylight. Watching the patrols drive by. The fuck?

Yeah, that might be my biggest problem too. When it jumps around so much it's hard to invest, so the bomb doesn't really feel like a proper threat.

[rockNrollaDIM]

I agree Gopher. Of course I am nitpicking the flaws now, but both times I saw the film I was totally engrossed and never "taken out" of the film for too long. Seeing it one more time on Tuesday and I guess I'll have my final verdict then. Not sure where I can really put it in my rankings for 2012 at the moment because as much as I loved 21 Jump Street, this is just 10x more ambitious and larger in scale. It's hard to compare two movies like that.

[rockNrollaDIM]

Oh, one more question I had with my second viewing. When Catwoman delivers Bruce Wayne to Bane's people and then helps him, Talia, and Fox to escape- what was up with that? Was Catwoman all of a sudden an ally to Bane? I get that she exchanged her life for delivering Batman to Bane in the first place, but I thought that was more of a "you get a clean slate with us", and not really a "we're allies and you can boss around my men" type of agreement.

[Hatebox]

The bomb plot was probably my biggest issue, and really the only 'big' issue I have so far after one viewing.I like the disturbing scenario that surrounded it - the city left to rot with no help from the government - but to then go from that to "there's only 24 hours left!!" brought it too abruptly back to comic-book/action movie conventions. Having a doomsday device was acceptable-ish, adding in the race-against-the-clock element took me out of it. There was enough drama as it was.

[Letsuseournoggin]

Ive seen this film twice now, first time i was very disappointed but that was my fault. I was under the impression that Gotham would get nuked. I know its silly to think this now as there is no possible way it would happen in a film like Batman but still, when you expect something your dissapointed that you dont get it. Because of this i thought I would give it a second viewing just to be fair. My second viewing I enjoyed it a lot more, however it did have plot holes and the film felt overly long and quite boring and lazy at times (especially after Bane had taken over the city).Pros.Catwomen - I was pissed off when i heard that Catwomen would be in this, but to be fair, she was great and was never actually called Catwomen throughout the entire movie. She had a purpose and Anne Hathaway played the role well.Bane - I know people wanted another villian like The Joker, eg The riddler, but what is the point? Nolan already made a Batman film about a phsycotic genius, this time having a villian who can pack a punch made sense to me. I liked what Hardy did with Bane's voice. He could have easily made him sound more menacing but instead he sounded mysterious which made him more intimidating. Emotion - It was far more emotional than the other movies, and i think we owe a lot of this to Michael Cane. He is great and the film focuses a lot more on the life of Bruce Wayne than TDK did.ConsBane's final fight - Im sorry but for someone who managed to break batman without breaking a sweat, he didnt really put up a good fight at the end. Batman managed to kick his ass quite easily which was just stupid and what does the big evil muscle bound Bane do when he's beaten? he cries his eyes out lol.The Nuke - The countdown on the bomb had a mind of its own. one stage its on 11.30 minutes. After this there's about 10 minutes off footage, Miranda is able to leave Bane and Batman, get on a Batmobile, dodge some incoming fire, then jumps onto the truck with the nuke about 2 miles down the street. According to the timer it had only gone down 50 seconds Then the timer goes down by 5 minutes without anything happening lol. Then when Batman finally copies Iron Man by flying the nuke away for the city to avoid destruction, there is 5 seconds left on the timer, so realistically Batman is fucked, but no. Somehow he manages to escape the 6 mile radius explosion which judging from my calculation means he would have had to travel 2250 mph to escape lol. I know he got the auto pilot fixed but they were still stupid enough to show batman in the Batwing with 5 seconds left. That is lazy film-making right there. Also when the automic bomb went off, it didnt look like a 6 mile blast radius seeing as they were probably about 2 miles offshore.Robin - What is the need in ending the trilogy on the hint of JGL as Robin?? Isnt this meant to be a conclusion where everything is tied up? clearly not.Missed Opportunites - Im suprised they didnt do an emotionally satisfying scene in which Gotham realised that Bruce Wayne is Batman. This could have been done so well and seeing as its a conclusion it would have fit right in, but for some reason they didnt.Overall i still think the film is a 6.5 out of 10 movie because it has smart moments, its gritty and there are some epic scenes, however it could and should have been so much more.If im wrong on any of my theories, so if i have missed something in the film, then feel free to tell me what.

Not trying to offend, but just giving honest feedback. I think the con on the bomb time is a bit nitpicky, but I see your point. The whole second fight with Bane part though is really more of a homage to the Batman mythos. He got owned in the first fight and came back in true Batman style. He knew that he was not physically capable of outfighting Bane so he used his true comicbook Batman fighting style. Outmart the opponent by using methods that exploit the weakness of his enemy. In Bane's case it was, don't let the fight go on too long because it'll be a repeat of ownage, so I have to make sure I get his mask asap to end this early. I loved it. It worked IMO.As for Robin, I agree to an extent. It was left open, but I feel it was Nolan's way of keeping the Batman "legend" and Batman "rising" theme. I digress, I see your point though. It worked for me on a personal level.If you read my cons, I think those were a bit more laughable to be honest. Those were gaping holes for me, but I still loved the film.

[rockNrollaDIM]

The bomb plot was probably my biggest issue, and really the only 'big' issue I have so far after one viewing.I like the disturbing scenario that surrounded it - the city left to rot with no help from the government - but to then go from that to "there's only 24 hours left!!" brought it too abruptly back to comic-book/action movie conventions. Having a doomsday device was acceptable-ish, adding in the race-against-the-clock element took me out of it. There was enough drama as it was.

Right, I would have liked to have seen more on the brekadown of society in Gotham during those five months. Sure the prisoners and Bane's people were wreaking havoc but the rest of Gotham? Hunky dory, sense of community and cohesion? From what they showed, everyone else seemed complacent to die or be rescued.

[Hatebox]

Right, I would have liked to have seen more on the brekadown of society in Gotham during those five months. Sure the prisoners and Bane's people were wreaking havoc but the rest of Gotham? Hunky dory, sense of community and cohesion? From what they showed, everyone else seemed complacent to die or be rescued.

Yeah, seeing a few more Gothamites' reaction to the siege would have been nice. I liked the aesthetics of the desolate wasteland Gotham had become but the sense of time that had passed was quite hard to reconcile.

[Gopher]

I had no problem with the Robin thing. If anything it shows Nolan has a sense of humor. How many times has Nolan said there is no place for a Robin in this world? He might as well have been winking from behind the camera.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Gopher

[Kvikk Lunsj]

Alfred could been dreaming at the end so Batman could fixed before hand.

[Jordanstine]

I did the marathon for the movie and after just seeing Batman Begins freshly engraved in my mind again, watching TDKR just seemed like it was a redo of Batman Begins, complete with the same plot, the same end game, even the same League of Shadows villain.

Not complaining at all, but it was weird to watch what happened in Batman Begins was like a retelling of what was happening in TDKR.

- Batman vs the League of Shadows

- Batman disappearing from Gotham City for 8 years in TDKR (Bruce Wayne disappearing from Gotham City for # of years to train in BB)

- Batman learning to deal with his fear climbing out of the Lazarus Pit (the Batcave in BB)

- TDKR had a Fusion Reactor stolen from Wayne Enterprise to use against the city (Microwave Emitter stolen from Wayne Industries in BB)

- Same plot of bombing and burning Gotham City to the ground

- Same plot by breaking out the Prisoners to run amok

- Maria Tate is revealed to be Talia-Al Ghul all along in TDKR (Ducard was revealed to be R'As Al Ghul all along in BB).

- The way Talia dies by crashing the truck in TDKR (R'As dies by crashing the train in BB).

- TDKR ends with a nod to an important Batman character in Robin (BB ends with nod to the Joker).

Others have also said, TDKR had a lot in common with TDK too:

- TDK and TDKR both open with a 6 minute prologue showcasing an amazing feat by the film's main antagonist to show us what Bats is up against

- Joker and men hold up a bank and Joker escapes via schoolbus.

- Bane and men hold up a stock exchange and Bane escapes via motorcycle.

- Joker places explosives everywhere.

- Bane places explosives everywhere.

- Harvey Dent ends up in intensive care before being back on his feet, ready to settle the score.

- Gordon ends up in intensive care before being on his feet, ready to settle the score.

- Dent is Gotham's White Knight, picking up much of the slack for Batman.

- Blake is a White Knight of sorts, picking up much of the slack for Batman (while he's away)

- Crane gets a bit part (both films)

- Joker seemingly puts the people's fates in their own hands.

- Bane seemingly puts the people's fates in their own hands.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Jordanstine

[Adm56]

I respect everyone's opinion, but what truly puzzles me is all the praise TDKR is getting for it's action sequences. Maybe this is intended to be a more intimate film (although if so I have no idea why) but if you compare similar shots in TDK vs those in the TDKR almost EVERYTHING is IMO on a much larger scale and just more visually interesting in general in TDK.Consider the first fight between Bane and Batman vs. Batman and the Joker at the party in TDK. You get a much more vibrant and energetic camera in TDK. So Nolan shows that he and his team have it in them, but then just kind of blow off a lot of their style in their latest film.And I'm sorry but if you look at the big action sequences throught the trilogy the worst BY FAR are in TDKR. The chase sequence where Dent was using himself as bait in TDK was pretty awesome by most accounts....the bike chase scene that occurs in TDKR after the stock market heist could easily be in a romcom by comparison (and IMO the bike chase even pales in comparison to the 'get Rachel to the Batcave sequence in BB when it comes to general fun factor). It's also worth noting that the stock market heist in general is just there unlike the very interesting bank heist in TDK.Even little things in TDK are made to look more interesting...compare the camera work in TDK when Wayne, Rachel and Dent are on their double date in TDK versus most of the conversation pieces with mostly static shots in TDKR.All of this adds up to Nolan being bored and just wanting to be done with it all IMO. And none of the above even starts to get into all the odd happenings in the script.

[Dementeleus]

I think it's absolutely absurd to claim Nolan was bored, un-invested, or whatever. If you didn't like the movie, that's fine -- but there's absolutely no way someone invests years of their life doing something that they weren't interested in doing. Nolan had more than enough clout to simply walk away after TDK if he wanted to.

[Adm56]

Would it be kinder to say 'out of original ideas'? This has certainly happened to many a filmmaker.And what about my other points? Do you think the TDKR action sequences are superior to what has come before?

[Dementeleus]

Would it be kinder to say 'out of original ideas'? This has certainly happened to many a filmmaker.And what about my other points? Do you think the TDKR action sequences are superior to what has come before?

I liked some action sequences in TDK more (the bank heist) and some sequences in TDKR more (the plane heist, the hand-to-hand combat). I think in general Nolan has gotten better at action scenes over the years. I think the cross-cutting at the conclusion of TDKR was far more complex, complicated and ambitious than anything he did in TDK. Edited July 23, 2012 by Telemachos

[Hatebox]

For me:

The truck sequence in TDK was better than the aerial stuff in TDKR.

The Bane fist fights in TDKR were better than any of the fights in the previous two films.

I enjoyed seeing Batman brawl with someone and not win. The camera lingered to highlight the strain and hopelessness he endured, and his screams of frustration were the icing on the cake. This wasn't a Matrix-esque ballet, this was brutal and unpretty.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Hatebox

[MrPink]

The problem about the truck sequence at times is that it suffers from some horrendous editing, and some of the lines of humor from the SWAT member sort of broke away from the tension. It was good for a line or two maybe, but he overdid it.The choreography in TDKR's hand to hand fighting is so much better than TDK. This is clear when you consider in TDK, there are several scenes when people are waiting to be hit, especially in Hong Kong. It's clear Hardy and Bale put a lot of work in trying to make the fights look as convincing as possible on screen. And of course, Catwoman moved as well as could have been expected in the suit during her brief two fight sequences.

[Adm56]

Fair enough. We'll just have to agree to disagree. Everything just seemed very 'flat' to me visually throughout the film. Bane 'falling thought the aisle' as the plane went vertical was one of the few shots that I felt had anywhere near the energy of similar sequences in TDK.

[MrPink]

Don't get me wrong though, the truck sequence in TDK still stands as one of the coolest action pieces that Nolan has done. But as a overall whole? I think Nolan has improved considerably since 2008